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The W - Pro Wrestling - Is Anyone Capable of Beating Vince? (Page 2)
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odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.61
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
      Originally posted by Mattitude
      At this point, the only way I could see Vince having any serious competition is if Linda, Shane, Stephanie, and Triple H pooled their resources and started their own seperate wrestling promotion.

    Isn't "their resources" Vince's money?


I would say, in that case, it's their salary + stock + stock options from the time the company went public until now.

You could call that vince's money, but more likely money earned from vince's company, in which they all also work.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.27
Just thought I'd pop in to say that the first post is hilariously dismissive of just how bloody good Vince McMahon is at ths wrestling promotion business, and the idea that luck is the reason he & WWE are on top of the wrestling world is patently ridiculous.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.82
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    Just thought I'd pop in to say that the first post is hilariously dismissive of just how bloody good Vince McMahon is at ths wrestling promotion business, and the idea that luck is the reason he & WWE are on top of the wrestling world is patently ridiculous.


I think luck has something to do with him being where he is. I am not saying its all luck, Vince is a smart bastard a good chunk of the time and is very business savvy. Yet, he was lucky Wrestlemania I didn't bomb and he got the celebrities he got as well as none of them blowing up on him. He was lucky Bischoff was an egomaniac when he was killing Vince in the 90s. He was lucky the Turner execs had no idea what to do with a successful wrestling program. He was lucky none of his main event talent wasn't seriously hurt a few weeks before Mania or other big PPV. I would say Vince has been lucky on a lot of things, but he has also had bad luck as well, see In Your House: Beware of Dog. Unlike Obi-Wan Kenobi, I believe in luck. Yet, I think Vince being where he is has maybe 10% to 15% lucky as well as 75% business savvy and the other 10% to 15% is going against people who are not as smart as he is.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.71
Luck - where opportunity meets preparation



Perception is reality
AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.07
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    Luck - where opportunity meets preparation


Yep. I'd like to go back to my concept earlier - the NFL wouldn't really be one national organization without Pete Rozelle - one ruthless businessman who had a vision and carried it out. You could say the same thing for Kennisaw Mountain Landis who combined the Leagues and made them strong after the betting scandals of 1918 and 19.

Both ruthless guys, both knew what they wanted, and pushed it. So does Vince McMahon. Closest guy I can think to him around right now is Donald Trump.

you don't always have to be a brain surgeon to do what you really want to do, to accomplish your goals. You just have to keep the ball rolling and look for opportunity. And let's face it: Verne gave it to him when he decided not to push Hogan.

The difference between them? Vince knew what to do with the big lug. Two years later, Wrestlemania.

Geeze, I can't believe I am actually posting in the wrestling forum again. Lord knows how long it's been since I have seen a show.



We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.

That the universe was formed by a fortuitous concourse of atoms, I will no more believe than that the accidental jumbling of the alphabet would fall into a most ingenious treatise of philosophy - Swift

Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 496 days
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
Vince definately had the work ethic and vision. I mean the guy works ungodly hours (I believe the other week when he said his office was open from 7:30am to midnight was a shoot).

But not discounting that, there are a string of bad decisions from competitors that you don't find in a lot of industries.

-Verne passing on Hogan.
-Crockett spreading himself too thin.
-Cornette being to volatile to be a viable business partner.
-Same with Heyman plus no business sense.
-Bischoff having Vince by the THROAT and basically GIVING him Steve Austin and Mick Foley.

Just take any one of those away. Say Bischoff cut a deal with Austin instead of firing him Fed Ex. Bam! The keystone of the Attitude Era is gone.
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 496 days
Last activity: 225 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
(deleted by Scottyflamingo on 14.6.11 1126)
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 79 days
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.16
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    But not discounting that, there are a string of bad decisions from competitors that you don't find in a lot of industries.
Yes, you do. People in all manner of industries make bad decisions every day of the week. Some of them are great big, bleeding stupid mistakes, others only appear to be mistakes with the benefit of hindsight.

What you call "spreading yourself thin" is, if successful, called "aggressive expansion". WCW letting Austin go was fortunate, but the WWE did manage to take an asset one of their competitors didn't want and then made a heap load of money off of it for which they deserve some credit.

Just about every successful company in the world will have had their share of luck, good and bad, and to assert that "Vince is the kingpin of wrestling by default" or that "the major challengers that he has had lost due to their own mistakes rather than anything Vince did" is, as Mr Cochran put it, patently ridiculous.

Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 496 days
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
    Originally posted by dMr
      Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
      But not discounting that, there are a string of bad decisions from competitors that you don't find in a lot of industries.
    Yes, you do. People in all manner of industries make bad decisions every day of the week. Some of them are great big, bleeding stupid mistakes, others only appear to be mistakes with the benefit of hindsight.

    What you call "spreading yourself thin" is, if successful, called "aggressive expansion". WCW letting Austin go was fortunate, but the WWE did manage to take an asset one of their competitors didn't want and then made a heap load of money off of it for which they deserve some credit.

    Just about every successful company in the world will have had their share of luck, good and bad, and to assert that "Vince is the kingpin of wrestling by default" or that "the major challengers that he has had lost due to their own mistakes rather than anything Vince did" is, as Mr Cochran put it, patently ridiculous.




The why has the company lost over half its business (buys, ratings, etc) since Vince became a monopoly?

And the only thing Vince did to "make" Austin was have the common sense to let him run in his own direction. The best Vince could come up with was The Ringmaster. Hell, read Foley's first book, they didn't even have plans for Austin merchandise (they were banking everything on Mark Henry) until Austin 3:16 fell in their lap (which by the way, is another thing Vince didn't come up with).
PaulKTF
Summer sausage








Since: 26.5.06

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
For Vince being such a genius; he sure came close to going out of business in the early-to-mid 90's thanks to (among other reasons) having no idea how to market wrestlers or his product in the post-Hogan era. 1995 was not a great year to be a WWE fan.

And it could be argued that were it not for ECW's more edgy style catching on and giving Vince something to borrow from (with more realistic characters and angles) there might not be a WWE today.



(edited by PaulKTF on 15.6.11 1318)
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.71
    Originally posted by PaulKTF
    For Vince being such a genius; he sure came close to going out of business in the early-to-mid 90's thanks to (among other reasons) having no idea how to market wrestlers or his product in the post-Hogan era. 1995 was not a great year to be a WWE fan.

    And it could be argued that were it not for ECW's more edgy style catching on and giving Vince something to borrow from (with more realistic characters and angles) there might not be a WWE today.



    (edited by PaulKTF on 15.6.11 1318)


You won't find me defending Vince but what you and the previous post point out is that he is good at what he does. For example, he saw ECW and what they were doing and stole it adapted it and made it work big time. Where is ECW today, we all know the answer.

He also had the sense to let Austin do his thing and cash in on it. What any good businessman does is bring in the right people and let them do their job. As we all notice, when he doesn't and lets his ego rule things don't go so well. and the even bigger key is to know when to cut your losses.

And finally, the only people who don't fail are those who do nothing. most "successful" business people fail at least half of the time. It's just that Vince's screw ups are a bit more visible, especially with 52 weeks of new TV a year.

I really can't believe I am defending this guy. I don't even like him. Respect yes, like no.

(edited by DrDirt on 15.6.11 1426)


Perception is reality
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 496 days
Last activity: 225 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
I agree with Dirt. Vince works really well with a good team. Where I think he is very good is taking ideas and making them better. Russo was a good guy for him to work with because Russo was crazy creative, but Vince reigned him in. I think that he was also able to see what Austin was doing and create the Mr McMahon character to pair up with him
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.83
So, instead of saying Vince is lucky, we are saying he just rips people off better then anyone else. The Mr.McMahon character had nothing to do with Austin as much as it did with the aftermath of the Montreal screw job.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.36
    Originally posted by lotjx
    So, instead of saying Vince is lucky, we are saying he just rips people off better then anyone else. The Mr.McMahon character had nothing to do with Austin as much as it did with the aftermath of the Montreal screw job.






He took the stunner from Austin 6 weeks before Montreal in MSG, and he started developing his dick persona the night after Pillman died. Now, the hell authority figure he took from Bischoff.
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 12 hours
Last activity: 12 hours
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.71
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
      Originally posted by lotjx
      So, instead of saying Vince is lucky, we are saying he just rips people off better then anyone else. The Mr.McMahon character had nothing to do with Austin as much as it did with the aftermath of the Montreal screw job.






    He took the stunner from Austin 6 weeks before Montreal in MSG, and he started developing his dick persona the night after Pillman died. Now, the hell authority figure he took from Bischoff.


"Luck" is part of everything. And I wouldn't use the term "rip off." When you really start investigating new ideas, there are precious few. Most everything is "ripped off" or recycled.

Again, I don't particularly care for him as a human being based on what I have read and seen. But to demean or trivialize what he has accomplished is illogical.

(edited by DrDirt on 16.6.11 0748)


Perception is reality
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