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The W - Baseball - Investigation?
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DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.56
Reports are that MLB will launch an investigation re steriods and players beyond just Bonds with former Sen. Mitchell in charge. Any guesses as to how ths will go? Think they'll ask Bud what he knew and when he knew it?



Perception is reality
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Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.11
On a semi-related note, it was reported by Bloomberg News yesterday that Home Depot and Bank of America pulled out as National sponsors for any program celebrating Bonds breaking the home run record (ESPN.com).

So now there's intense scrutiny both in the realm of the public, the media, Congress, and the financial end of the spectrum. MLB's in a real bind as to how to handle Bonds potentially breaking the record.

As for the investigation, I'm not positive what (if anything) will actually come of it, other than to make a PR statement that MLB is taking a hardline stance against doping. If the Balco Investigation didn't provide enough evidence for them to take some sort of disciplinary action against Bonds and other players, then what can this accomplish?



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RYDER FAKIN
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Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.07
It's good to see that Bank of America is taking a stand against this...

From the link below:

"We are a company where confidence and trust is held high," Cathy Bessant, Bank of America's global marketing executive, told Bloomberg News. "A company like ours is always going to choose the untainted opportunity. There is no reason to stand up for controversy." "...Cheating matters...Cheaters shouldn't prosper."

BoA, Fleet in $675M fund settlement

The two giant banks agree to the biggest settlement so far in the ongoing mutual fund scandal.

Click Here (money.cnn.com)

Well, I guess they learned their lesson. Confidence and Trust!

Bank of America loses customer data

Bank of America Corp. has lost computer data tapes containing personal information on up to 1.2 million federal employees, including some members of the U.S. Senate.

The lost data includes Social Security numbers and account information that could make customers of a federal government charge card program vulnerable to identity theft.


Click Here (msnbc.msn.com)

Bummer that no one from Home Depot had a quotable quote...but they are hardly above reproach

SEC Opens Informal Probe Into Home Depot

Click Here (cbsnews.com)

Home Depot Resists Subpoenas of Execs

Click Here (cfo.com)

Deputy Marshall: As for the investigation, I'm not positive what (if anything) will actually come of it, other than to make a PR statement that MLB is taking a hardline stance against doping. If the Balco Investigation didn't provide enough evidence for them to take some sort of disciplinary action against Bonds and other players, then what can this accomplish?

Every now and then the Major Sports cave to media pressure...or bullshit threats from the Government. But, just like the government (pick a hot button issue), no one really has the balls to "fix" or clean up" the problem. It's all grandstanding. And just like the media, there isn't any *real* accountability anyway

George Mitchell is the perfect slug to be in charge of this - he's really good at doing nothing about "issues". But, he makes it seem like he's doing something and everyone loves him for it. That's a good politician. Selig and the owners certainly do not want the full can of worms opened on this - and there obviously are not all that many fans that care. If that was the case, no one would be attending games / buying merchandise / watching.

MLB (mid-90's) and NHL (last year) showed how to kill a sport. Go on strike. The only intolerance I've seen from the "fans" in any sport is towards millionaire cry babies who won't show up for work. Everything else is "whatever".

That's probably why we have an overkill of sports radio / tv talking heads these days - SOMEONE has to give a shit about "cheating" and "legitimacy" and the "integrity of the game". It ain't me

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 30.3.06 1312)

Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high

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DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 10 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.56
Flea, I agree. To me the overriding issue that will likely keep this just a whitewash is simple. Bud knew or had strong hints as to what was going on. The owners, managers, trainers, etc. had to have a clue and they not only turned a blind eye, they encouraged it. That's why Bonds and Co. will get a pass.

(edited by DrDirt on 30.3.06 1335)


Perception is reality
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.34
How is it possible for George Mitchell to conduct an independent investigation of this matter when he owns a stake in the Red Sox? If his mandate is to investigate from 2002-2006 with the authority to go back if it warrants, how can he fairly investigate when there was at least one player on the Red Sox who was in all likelihood a steroid user who played for the team from the point of the ownership group that Mitchell is a part of taking over the team in the winter of '01-'02 through the trading deadline of 2004? And, if it goes further back, Canseco played for the Red Sox in the mid 90's and I can think of 2 or 3 players just off the top of my head whose performance as either a pitcher or hitter increased dramatically from the time period prior to Canseco joining the organization through his leaving the organization.
RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.07
How is it possible for George Mitchell to conduct an independent investigation of this matter when he owns a stake in the Red Sox?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Mitchell is also the Chairman of Disney, which owns ABC / ESPN - which have the MLB television contracts locked up! (ABC may still officially be pending...but it's most likely going to happen). The conflict of interest here is so blantantly obscene that no one in their right minds can take this seriously.

This investigation brings in talk show / Sportcenter revenue - because everyone *needs* to hear about this - and the flip side is probably every pitch to Bonds after he reaches 711 (now there's a marketing tie-in!) will be televised. On ESPN. Any replayed on SC. HA! If Selig / Mitchell were serious, Bonds would be suspended. For what, I don't know - technically, he didn't do anything wrong. But it would prove Selig's point - he hates money. And he doesn't. So nothing will happen.

This has to be the dumbest story EVER, and probably the most direct insult to anyone's intelligence since - I'll save my comments on the pending season of Monday Night Football until it happens

FLEA



Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high

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DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.56
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    How is it possible for George Mitchell to conduct an independent investigation of this matter when he owns a stake in the Red Sox? If his mandate is to investigate from 2002-2006 with the authority to go back if it warrants, how can he fairly investigate when there was at least one player on the Red Sox who was in all likelihood a steroid user who played for the team from the point of the ownership group that Mitchell is a part of taking over the team in the winter of '01-'02 through the trading deadline of 2004? And, if it goes further back, Canseco played for the Red Sox in the mid 90's and I can think of 2 or 3 players just off the top of my head whose performance as either a pitcher or hitter increased dramatically from the time period prior to Canseco joining the organization through his leaving the organization.


And that is why I am curious as to what people think. I can't see baseball doing this. If they were honest they would be burying themselves. It is quite sad when Jose Canseco comes across as the honest one. And they are keeping Pete out of the Hall of Fame?



Perception is reality
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.81
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    If Selig / Mitchell were serious, Bonds would be suspended. For what, I don't know - technically, he didn't do anything wrong.

    FLEA


Well from what I'm hearing there are two ways to get him. First, they say a rule put in the early to mid 90's said players could not do "illegal drugs". Steroids are not mentioned by name, but you could make a case they are included in there, so the investigation could be taken back to wherever they want within that timeline, which means Bonds can likely be suspended for using them.

Also, word is that months back Selig and Bonds met and Selig basically asked Bonds to explain what happened. Telling him that if he has done something and comes clean, he'll be suspended for a short time and that will be that. If he kept lying and was later caught, all bets were off. Granted none of that is official, but who knows what the hell really happened. I suppose if that is true then the commisioner could try and use Bonds lying to cover it up as a reason for a much longer suspension. And certainly if this commission can make a solid case, then the government will try to nail him on perjury as well since he didn't really admit to knowingly doing steroids to them.

I dunno how fast they can act to get this done though, and if it's not done before he gets the record, what's the point? They aren't going to strike numbers out of the books, no way at all. Suspension is the only viable way. Selig doesn't really have a choice, he's gonna have to find a way to get Bonds out of there. The alternative is having this commission come back having found no evidence and hope it all goes away at that point, but fans aren't that stupid. If you're going to investigate you better damn well find something.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 149 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.06

    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    That's probably why we have an overkill of sports radio / tv talking heads these days - SOMEONE has to give a shit about "cheating" and "legitimacy" and the "integrity of the game".


Oh man, FLEA why you gotta be hatin'

Sportstalk hosts gotta eat too.



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Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
Bonds needs to be gone. He needed to be gone a long time ago. For that matter, I wasn't particularly thrilled about Mark McGwire's "non-denial" denial of steroid use, or the corked bat controversy with Sammy Sosa.

Those three have done a lot to ruin baseball for me. I'm sure it's more than those three who've been cheating, but McGwire and Sosa captured the public's imagination with their incredible home run chase (I cheered, as I'm sure a lot of people did, when McGwire broke the record), and Bonds is very close to passing BABE FUCKING RUTH on the all-time home run list.

So fuck all three of them, and I swear I'm this close to saying "Fuck baseball".



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AWArulz
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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.59
Eke -

Number 1, to the Corked bat incident. Look, not forgiving Sosa for that, it's a tradition. He's not the first to do it or the last. Bouton wrote about guys doing it in Ball Four from back in '69. Not unlike stealing signs with a guy in the scoreboard with a telescope (Veeck wrote about doing that in Veeck as in Wreck back in the frickin' 40s). If you don't get caught, nobody cares. So I don't see that as a terrible thing. Obviously, Sammy was losing the ability to get around on the hummer that year and was looking for a little help. I don't condone it, but I see it as no worse than a catcher scuffing up the ball for his pitcher, a batter putting pine tar further up the bat to cause a bad bounce on a batted ball or a spitball.

Number 2, Steroids, let's face it: Bonds and others (probably Sammy and McGuire) have likely used them. But they weren't against the rules in baseball until a couple years ago. So I don't know how you can fault guys who used them when the difference between using them and not using them for their body types was literally millions and millions of dollars a year.

If they are still using them (and most of the biggest offenders are out of baseball now), then they are illegal. Unless they have that cool Clear stuff, I guess.




We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.
bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

Since last post: 613 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.06
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Number 2, Steroids, let's face it: Bonds and others (probably Sammy and McGuire) have likely used them. But they weren't against the rules in baseball until a couple years ago. So I don't know how you can fault guys who used them when the difference between using them and not using them for their body types was literally millions and millions of dollars a year.


That's only partly right. Steroids weren't mentioned by name in the drug policy until very recently. But, and it's a real big but, baseball has had a generic illegal drugs clause since at least the 80's and the glory days of heavy cocaine abuse. Unless my memory of growing up in, and later working in, a hospital pharmacy has failed me, anabolic steroids have been prescription only for as long as I can remember and have been Schedule II drugs, in the most part, for the past 12-15 years. Unless you've got a valid script for those drugs, possession and use are indeed illegal. Somehow, call me cynical, I doubt that the aforementioned individuals have valid scripts for anabolic steroid use.

If MLB really wants to do an investigation and punish those guys, and that's a whole different can of worms, the standard language of the contracts they played under certainly gives MLB the right and the authority to investigate and potentially punish for violating the rules of the game.

Tim



Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit. -- Erasmus
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.81
Look I was kinda not caring about the steroid thing that much before. I mean I didn't like Bonds but I figured a lot of guys were using and didn't really care a whole ton. Plus I'm a St. Louis guy and couldn't bring myself to hate on Big Mac. But I'm about 3/4 of the way through Game of Shadows and I can now say fuck every last one of these a-holes. Screw'em all. And for that matter I will never trust a single result from the world of track and field again.

And Victor Conte and Anderson and Patrick Arnold can go to hell for what they've done. The players didn't have to take the stuff but these guys took delight in ruining sports.

I believe there is enough out there on Bonds of not just taking roids, but lying to the government, lying to Selig himself and worse dragging other players into his connections and crap that he should be banned for life.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.38
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Look I was kinda not caring about the steroid thing that much before. I mean I didn't like Bonds but I figured a lot of guys were using and didn't really care a whole ton. Plus I'm a St. Louis guy and couldn't bring myself to hate on Big Mac. But I'm about 3/4 of the way through Game of Shadows and I can now say fuck every last one of these a-holes. Screw'em all. And for that matter I will never trust a single result from the world of track and field again.

    And Victor Conte and Anderson and Patrick Arnold can go to hell for what they've done. The players didn't have to take the stuff but these guys took delight in ruining sports.

    I believe there is enough out there on Bonds of not just taking roids, but lying to the government, lying to Selig himself and worse dragging other players into his connections and crap that he should be banned for life.

Having not read the book, it absolutely amazes me when I hear someone with a reaction like this. This book was written by a couple of reporters that I'm sure no one outside of San Francisco had heard of prior to the book's release. They claim that nobody enters investigative journalism to make money, but there's no way they didn't know there'd be a big market for a book bashing the mosted hated active player in baseball.

From what I understand, the book basically says a whole bunch of players, particularly Bonds, took steroids. Okay. We've heard that already. So the book adds some details, which may or may not be true. So now we're supposed to hate these players even more? Is that how it works? I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying it. If people weren't already looking for every reason to hate Barry Bonds, this book would not be nearly as powerful as it seems to be nothing more than a bunch of anecdotal "evidence."

Either do some mad chemistry hocus to find out Bonds did something illegal in the past (not bloody likely), show me the smoking syringe, or show me a positive drug test. Or, alternatively, show me Bonds starting to struggle at the plate, or maybe starting to shrinking in size. While this would be no more than circumstantial evidence of the benefits of past 'roid abuse, it's at least better than a bunch of stories from the past that nobody can verify.

- StingArmy
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

Since last post: 43 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.81
You really need to read the book before dismissing it, because like you I was skeptical. But the stuff it pulls together will change your mind, I promise. It's basically stuff taken from testimony and depositions that we didn't have access fully to before (and still don't), including FBI people who were in on checking out BALCO.

Look, I know some people will never be satisfied without a positive test. But when you read the lengths that these people went too....they had the system mastered to ensure their people would never test positive yet be able to do all the crap they wanted. Hell they even had an inside guy at the testing lab. Yes they are making money on the book, but if I uncovered this stuff I would have written a book too just to get the info out there so Barry and the rest wouldn't be able to lie about it anymore. In fact it's my guess that whoever did have access to these documents leaked them to these reporters in the hope the truth could get out and of course the reporters were gonna move on it.

They have records kept by Conte and Anderson showing the drugs they gave Barry down to what drugs on what days, what cycles they had him on and when his "random" tests would be done by MLB. Shipping records, emails, phone conversations, etc. Not just on Barry, mind you but on a lot of other athletes that were doing this to cheat their way to world records and gold medals.

Conte basically would blab to anyone and everyone about the illegal stuff he was giving Barry or other famous people so that he would look like a big man and be able to land other big clients, and they have that all on record as well from testimony of athletes he was doing it for. They gave up his system for keeping track of cycles or hiding shipments as something else. They've trailed Anderson as he went to BALCO, picked up the stuff, then headed straight for the Giants locker room with it in his bag.

Then you've got Bonds and others shilling a total BS supplement for Conte, pretending like it was what helped them get better, knowing it was all bullshit, just so he would keep giving them the illegal crap.

I suggest you actually read it. Like I said I was kinda indifferent to the whole thing, and didn't like Bonds but certainly didn't hate him and was hoping this whole thing would go away. I just said, hey it's roids but I didn't think or realize all of the crap that these people were doing. But I didn't have a new book to read and saw it so I said why not. Glad, and very, very sad, that I did.
BOSsportsfan34
Pepperoni








Since: 2.1.03
From: MA

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Y!:
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.89
    Originally posted by wmatistic


    And Victor Conte and Anderson and Patrick Arnold can go to hell for what they've done. The players didn't have to take the stuff but these guys took delight in ruining sports.




Speaking of Greg Anderson: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2400884

(edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 7.4.06 1852)


"Speaking of Thomases, I loved your recent Atrocious GM Summit column, although I think that you flatter Isiah Thomas far too much by suggesting that he is merely one of a number of atrocious GMs. The truth is that Rob Babcock and Billy King are Einstein next to him. The mess he is creating right now in New York will be studied by business school students 50 years from now alongside Enron and pets.com."

Malcom Gladwell, from an e-mail exchange column with Bill Simmons.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.57
    Originally posted by StingArmy
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      Look I was kinda not caring about the steroid thing that much before. I mean I didn't like Bonds but I figured a lot of guys were using and didn't really care a whole ton. Plus I'm a St. Louis guy and couldn't bring myself to hate on Big Mac. But I'm about 3/4 of the way through Game of Shadows and I can now say fuck every last one of these a-holes. Screw'em all. And for that matter I will never trust a single result from the world of track and field again.

      And Victor Conte and Anderson and Patrick Arnold can go to hell for what they've done. The players didn't have to take the stuff but these guys took delight in ruining sports.

      I believe there is enough out there on Bonds of not just taking roids, but lying to the government, lying to Selig himself and worse dragging other players into his connections and crap that he should be banned for life.

    Having not read the book, it absolutely amazes me when I hear someone with a reaction like this. This book was written by a couple of reporters that I'm sure no one outside of San Francisco had heard of prior to the book's release. They claim that nobody enters investigative journalism to make money, but there's no way they didn't know there'd be a big market for a book bashing the mosted hated active player in baseball.

Your claim would have more validity if it weren't for the fact that these two have been working on the Bonds case for about half a decade now back when it was just whispers about a shady lab in CA. And that these two have been doing this sort of thing in non-sports for over a decade before that. These guys have spent their entire careers working on stories like these, and the fact that "no one outside of CA had heard of" them until now seems to attest to the fact they haven't been working all their lives to make a cheap buck.



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