SAUDIS CRACK DOWN The Saudi government has cracked down on Islamic militants since the May 12 bombings. More than 200 suspects have been arrested since then, and more than a dozen others have been killed in police raids.
Willful ignorance of science is not commendable. Refusing to learn the difference between a credible source and a shill is criminally stupid.
See, my post said that they were doing something about it. You are just bringing up the point that there was something to do something about. I'm not arguing that there isn't.
My point is this: Just because there WAS a problem, doesn't mean that they aren't working with us now.
Keep in mind that all of the evidence that you would damn them with is just as reliable as all of the evidence that you say is worthless when it comes to WMD. You can't have it both ways. Either our mideast intel is bad and we shouldn't rely on it, or it's good and we should. Which one do you personally believe?
(edited by Guru Zim on 25.9.03 1214) Willful ignorance of science is not commendable. Refusing to learn the difference between a credible source and a shill is criminally stupid.
I'm just not willing to take this one example as proof positive that the Saudi regime has reformed. For all we know, billions of Saudi dollars are still flowing into Islamic "charities" and other terror-enabling places.
It's worth noting that the men they've supposedly killed were also a direct threat to their own safety. After all, their crime occurred on Saudi soil.
I see it as apples and oranges. Sure, they went after these guys, in this case, where they had a direct stake in it. That doesn't mean that they are not still a problem, however, on balance.
As for our intel, I need only refer to the much-ballyhooed 28 pages. You and I simply don't know the extent of our intel, even that which has been reviewed by congress, etc.
I view this as an isolated incident, where I get the sense you are trying to establish a pattern of Saudi cooperation.
The problem with the Saudis is this: support for Terrorism is not completely marginalized. Yes, the government - at least some parts of it - are trying their best. But there are other parts working against them.
I remember an interview with the former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia. When asked about support for terror among the royal family (this was after he said that even though Saudi Arabia supports Hamas, they don't support terrorism, because Saudi Arabia doesn't consider Hamas a terrorist organization), his responce was essentially "well, the royal family, which is the ruling class, has thousands of members. Sure there will be a some who support Al Quada. But that doesn't mean the Saudi Government does."
To which I say - Fuck you. There are thousands of American elected officials on the federal, state, and local level. Can you imagine even ONE of them sending money to Al Quada? I'm sure if State Rep. Joe Schmoe of Davenport, Iowa got caught sending money to terrorists, it would be front page news for weeks with serious repercussions, not an "well, there's thousands of elected officials, what can you expect?" attitude.
The fact that Saudi Arabia arrested some people is a start, but it certainly doesn't get them off the hook. Once they put support for terrorism out of them realm of acceptable in their society, I'll maybe consider them our friend. I mean, if we had state-sanctioned school textbooks that called all Saudis and Muslims "evil," and all that other garbage, would you expect them to be our friends?
"I'm sorry, I didn't think I was going to talk about 'man on dog' with a United States Senator. It's sort of freaking me out."
Associated Press interview with Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), 04-07-2003.
Originally posted by MoeGatesThere are thousands of American elected officials on the federal, state, and local level. Can you imagine even ONE of them sending money to Al Quada? I'm sure if State Rep. Joe Schmoe of Davenport, Iowa got caught sending money to terrorists, it would be front page news for weeks with serious repercussions, not an "well, there's thousands of elected officials, what can you expect?" attitude.
But nobody would claim that Rep. Schmoe's support for Al Quada implies that the government of the United States supports it. Heck, under that reasoning it's quite easy to say that the government of the United States supports all kinds of nutty fringe (and not-so-fringe) organizations, from the Communist Party to the KKK.
Kansas-born and deeply ashamed The last living La Parka Marka
"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
A couple of years back, the Saudi's refused to believe there own citizens were terrorists and, after a few carbomb attacks on westerners, arrested British citizens after they admitted to the crimes. Of course, after a few discussions with the UK, the Saudi's granted clemency on the Brits and released them. Shockingly, it was found the Saudi's were responsible and the 'confessions' had been gained by torture.
...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
FWIW Palp, I respected Gingrich a hell of a lot more than most of the current lot of folks. I always had the sense he meant what he said, even if I disagreed with it. He struck me as an ideologue, but not as much of a liar.