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The W - Pro Wrestling - in response to the Bret Hart post...
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headlock
Cotto








Since: 24.12.03
From: seattle

Since last post: 3815 days
Last activity: 3812 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.21
(deleted by headlock on 29.12.03 2228)
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Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 269 days
Last activity: 10 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.96
Hey, I sympathize. I grew up in Calgary, only a scant few kilometers from the palatial Hart estate in Patterson. Owen Hart lived around the corner from me. I've met Bret Hart on a few occations, but to dwell on the past of a legendary wrestler and his unfortunately deceased brother is to waste time.

I respect the Hart family (and Bret especially) for their contributions to the wrestling world and the craft. But to presume that Bret Hart, a WWF employee, was in his rights to refuse to do what his boss demanded of him is simply insane. If I told my boss "I'm sorry, but I don't feel like running any movies today", he'd fire me. I get paid to do a job, whether I like it or not, and Bret Hart was as well. He'd made millions upon millions of dollars up to that point in his career for doing what he was told and doing it well, and the minute he stopped doing that was in my opinion the minute his career came down to Earth.



FLAMES: 18-10-2-3
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Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 10 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.21
    Originally posted by Freeway420
    But to presume that Bret Hart, a WWF employee, was in his rights to refuse to do what his boss demanded of him is simply insane. If I told my boss "I'm sorry, but I don't feel like running any movies today", he'd fire me.


Not if your contract says you don't have to run movies.

Vince made a deal with Bret to get out of the millions of dollars he was on the hook for, and part of that deal was to give Bret creative control. Bret was giving up a lot of financial security, so he had every right to expect Vince to live up to the terms of the deal.

Now, as to Headlock trying to "open up people's eyes to the legacy Bret Hart has left in wrestling": What makes you think we don't know about that? I think if you had taken time to read some of the board before you decided to "open our eyes", you'd have seen that we're very aware of the legacy of Bret Hart, and I daresay there are quite a few people here who know a lot more about him than you do. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but this is why you're getting such a negative reaction. Don't walk into a new place and attempt to teach people what they already know.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 16 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.59
Let's not start this again, boys.

I think we could/should all agree that the fault lies not with Bret or with Vince entirely, but with the IDIOT who worded "reasonable creative control" in the contract. You can't use a vague word like reasonable in a legal document.



I'd tell you to kiss my ass, but I don't want to get it infected.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 56 min.
AIM:  
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.34
It's been well documented that the contract did indeed have the "reasonable creative control" clause in it, by both Bret and Vince in interviews over the years. In wrestling, with the locker room hierarchies and wacky clauses in some of these contracts, it's hard to define these sorts of things as boss-employee relationships.

Vince McMahon is the strongest figurehead in wrestling history, and even he has trouble maintaining control at times through legal means. The fact is, wrestlers are not employees. They are independent contractors. They recieve perks and concessions from the wrestling promoters that allow them to make demands of people who would otherwise be their "bosses."

Of course, with the current monopoly in place, I don't think we'll ever see a situation like this again. And people wonder why wrestling isn't fun anymore.
jivesoulbro
Bauerwurst








Since: 25.12.02

Since last post: 2390 days
Last activity: 415 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.24
I love Bret as much as the next guy, but was it necessary to start a second post? I haven't seen writing as difficult to follow as headlock's since the last time I read Erin from Canada. Sadly, that was this morning.

Yes, the Screwjob was a bad thing, it was unfortunate, but I am glad it happened for three reasons: Talking about it has made asteroidboy and me friends for life, it made Wrestling With Shadows a great film and it launched the once-great Mr. McMahon character.

(edited by jivesoulbro on 29.12.03 1204)
dr wagner jr
Chorizo








Since: 21.9.03
From: Mexico City

Since last post: 2900 days
Last activity: 2899 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.58
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Let's not start this again, boys.

    I think we could/should all agree that the fault lies not with Bret or with Vince entirely, but with the IDIOT who worded "reasonable creative control" in the contract. You can't use a vague word like reasonable in a legal document.


Man...

The Montreal Incident Again???

Come on..... Past is past...
Does anybody know the meaning of the term...
"FANS FROM HELL"?

I really, really hope so...

wagner jr



This is Nu Info
JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

Since last post: 2256 days
Last activity: 2254 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.89
    Originally posted by dr wagner jr
      Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
      Let's not start this again, boys.

      I think we could/should all agree that the fault lies not with Bret or with Vince entirely, but with the IDIOT who worded "reasonable creative control" in the contract. You can't use a vague word like reasonable in a legal document.


    Man...

    The Montreal Incident Again???

    Come on..... Past is past...
    Does anybody know the meaning of the term...
    "FANS FROM HELL"?

    I really, really hope so...

    wagner jr


I think there's a 90-day rule regarding threads about Montreal. That's my best guess and I'm sticking to it. :)



As long as somebody CTC at the end of the day, I'm with them.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 16 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.72
(deleted by CRZ on 30.12.03 0403)
Thread rated: 4.72
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