Ok, last time TNA put on a really kick-ass PPV, they immediately pissed it down the toilet by putting on a terrible follow-up iMPACT! Will history repeat itself? Let's find out...
-Show opens with a PPV recap. -Kurt Angle's on a couch. Jeremy Borash is apparently his new shrink. Kurt tries to blame Kevin Nash for his loss at BfG, but Karen and Borash think otherwise. Kurt plans to prove them wrong by beating Sting in the ring to get his title back. Oy vey, they're not gonna give away Sting/Angle for free four days after they made people pay good money for it, are they? -Angle then comes to the ring to call Sting out. Instead, we get Kevin Nash who looks to calm Kurt down. Kurt gets in his face and insists that he'd still be champion if Nash hadn't interfered. He then accuses Nash of riding his coattails. Before you know it, Kurt gets physical, which gets him a Jackknife Powerbomb. Give credit where it's due to creative, I actually find myself caring about Kevin Nash, something I didn't think previously possible. -After the break, it's MORE Kurt. Karen suggests he make nice with Nash. Borash points out that Nash likes porn, which leads to Kurt ordering Karen to fetch a bunch of porn for Nash. Karen reacts as expected and walks away. Kurt tells her not to forget the porn. Ha! -Chris Sabin v. Alex Shelley in a Fight for the Right Quarterfinal match. The MCMG collide! Well, no they don't, because before a match can ensue, Team 3D comes out and lays waste to both guys. Ray points out that the X Division sucks and that 3D will destroy it. Why? Because they can, that's why. The MCMG get stereo powerbombs through a pair of tables. I really don't like where this angle is going. I'm sure the X Division guys will eventually come out on top, but only after 3D completely wipes the floor with them for about 7/8 of the feud. -Jim Cornette astutely points out that there can't be much of a tournament if the Dudz take out the competitors. Christian Cage and Samoa Joe appeal to Cornette to try and slip into the tournament themselves. -Oh dear God! It's the Disco Inferno, come back to kill us all (tm CRZ). Disco insists that he's still relevant, even though he hasn't been on TV. Mike Tenay calls this comeback a parody like "The Comebacks", which Disco takes umbrage to. For some random reason, Scott Steiner walks in and high fives Disco to end the segment. Whaaaaaaa??? -Awesome Kong v. Talia Madison. Blink and you'll miss Kong squashing Madison like a bug with a sitout powerbomb. -Karen Angle tries to appeal to Nash to no avail. My Spidey-Sense is STILL tingling. -Ad for the Christian Cage DVD. Considering WWE owns just about EVERYTHING, I wonder how much TNA can pack into this one. But hey, if TNA's going into the DVD business, it means we can count the days to the Samoa Joe DVD, which should be a must-own. -Interview with Chris Harris. Rhino shows up, since he's apparently a part of the interview, also. Harris gets in Rhino's face for being late and takes a potshot at Rhino's drinking habits. When did Chris Harris suddenly morph into a douchebag? And why? -Chris Harris & Rhino v. James Storm & Robert Roode (w/ Miss Brooks). Ending comes when a Pier Four breaks out, but illegal man Storm hits Harris with an enziguiri to knock him into a Roode Payoff for the pin. Harris gets pissy with Rhino after the match. I have ZERO interest in a Chris Harris heel turn, but if it somehow leads to an AMW reunion with Storm, I'll be more than willing to overlook it. -Borash interviews Kaz about his spot in the Fight for the Right tournament. Kaz gets points for using the word "douchebaggery". -Jim Cornette wishes to present the new champions from BfG with their belts. Jay Lethal briefly comes out for some silliness and gets himself a gold watch for his troubles. Dig it! First comes the presentation of Gail Kim's new Women's title. Kim looks genuinely happy to have the title, which is nice to see. Then comes the Tag Team title presentation for Styles & Tomko, but Styles has a list of people to thank, including Ivan Drago and Kip James, who apparently keeps it real at age 50. Ha! Christian takes umbrage at not being thanked and demands the final Fight for the Right slot. Cornette decides to make Christian/Joe with the winner getting the final slot. Finally, Sting comes out for his title and takes up Angle's rematch offer, but the Angles come out to interrupt. Kurt apparently has a doctor's note to get out of tonight's match. But he requested the match an hour ago! Why is he making an excuse to get out of a match that he just requested? It's not like Nash's powerbomb is THAT bad. Sigh...let's move on. The gist is, Sting/Angle is on for next week. -Lancy Hoyt (w/ Christy Hemme & Jimmy Rave) v. Kaz in a Fight for the Right Quarterfinal match. This match turns nonsensical fast, with Hemme, Hoyt, and Rave all at each other's throats for some reason. Kaz gets the pin. -Afterwards, things get silly. We get a plug for some kind of Spike TV Major League Eating show, which somehow segues into a Junior Fatu promo. Fatu then cuts a horrible promo hyping his match next week against Robert Roode (but not without calling him Rick Rude first). I didn't think anyone could do a worse Rock imitation than John Cena until that gem from Rikishi. -Kurt asks Karen to ask Black Reign where Nash is. Why? Who knows? Reign licks his rat in response to the question. Good lord... -Disco Inferno v. Abyss. Faster than you can say "Disco Duck", Abyss kills Disco dead with a Black Hole Slam. Thanks for showing up, Disco...I guess. After the match, Black Reign attacks Abyss. Abyss gets slumped into the corner while Reign stuffs his rat into a bag. The bag then goes over Abyss's head. Had I known that the Plan B feud for Abyss was Dustin Rhodes, I probably would have just kept my damn mouth shut about Judas Mesias. -Hey, it's Kurt Angle...again! Karen and Borash push Kurt's wheelchair, but Kurt sees Nash driving away. Kurt gets off the wheelchair and tries to give chase, yelling "I'll buy you porn!" all the way. Hey, it's good for a chuckle, but how many times am I going to see Kurt tonight? -Christian Cage v. Samoa Joe. It wouldn't be a party without a ref bump. Run-ins galore here, starting with Styles & Tomko, but Joe takes them both out. Matt Morgan fights with Tomko to the back. Joe gets the Kokina Clutch, but there's still no ref. Robert Roode then comes in and whacks Joe with a chair, resulting in a Christian pinfall. Just when TNA had me believing they were serious about pushing Joe again, they decide to job him to a chair and feud him with perennial midcarder Robert F'n Roode? Fuck that. Good match otherwise, though.
Well, it wasn't as bad as the follow-up to the LAST PPV. But it wasn't great either. The title ceremony was a nice touch, but the action wasn't there tonight with the exception of the main event. There was WAAAAAAY too much Angle tonight and I'm hoping that doesn't become a habit. The post-BfG storylines do not look promising, with 3D suddenly crusading against the X Division for no good reason and Abyss finding himself in a feud with Black Reign.
But on a positive note, it looks like the Pacman Jones Era has come to an end. Huzzah!
Impact is why TNA is so frustrating and infuriating. Even after they've had a run of two solid PPV's, anything they accomplish at those shows is quickly erased at the tapings.
Lame ass heavyweights have declared war on the X division once again and are destroying it. They already squashed the X division champion on TV. Nash, Team 3D declare war on the X division, why won't the X division declare war back?
During PCS, I wanted nothing more than Senshi to kick Nash's head in. I would just love it if he kicked the shit out of someone like Brother Ray or Nash for deriding him for being a junior heavyweight.
TNA's at two hours and the homegrown guys are still fighting for time. LAX, XXX that killed themselves in that Ultimate X get no hype or video for that match at all. Even when LAX are the #1 contenders for the tag belts. They have two hours now, there are no more excuses.
Did they even mention that Joe ended Christian's streak of not getting pinned or forced to submit in two years? No matter, all that was quickly deflated with him jobbing to Christian again.
Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
Nash is heading back to the main event in a world title match that's right out of Bash at The Beach 1999. TNA's latest text mobile alert says the Outsiders are reforming in TNA. Oh joy.
Oh please, people complain about TNA's young talent not getting pushed and then when MCMG and Roode get feuds against top competition suddenly it's a bad idea. Personally I'm glad to see MCMG feuding with Team 3D instead of Bob f'n Backlund.
Everybody wants Kurt, Christian, Sting etc to feud with guys below them but Samoa Joe does and they throw a fit. If Samoa Joe is such a god to all TNA fans then isn't fueding with him a good way to get somebody new over? Hell Christian is now going to wrestle who in the Finals of the tournament? James Storm or Kaz? Team 3D/MCMG, Chritsian/Kaz or Storm and Samoa Joe/Roode is going to push new guys and start fueds we haven't seen yet. Two things that TNA fans have been complaining about.
Also, Samoa Joe got beat by FOUR guys, what the hell do you want? For him to squash ten guys at once every week?
TNA clearly has it's problem but it's never going to be a good show if you decide one thing is good one week or for one wrestler but wrong the next week for another wrestler.
Angle, Christian and Sting have all been established as main-event world championship material. By contrast, Samoa Joe has never won a PPV main event, and every time he feuds with one of the established championship guys he always comes out on the losing end.
The Motor City Machine Guns getting the shit kicked out of them with no comeback is not a feud, it's a squash. Team 3D are feuding with the whole fucking X Division, not just them. That's leaving aside the notion that Team 3D are "top level performers" too. Do you put VKM and Nash in that bracket as well?
(edited by oldschoolhero on 19.10.07 0522) To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
I agree that it kind of pisses away any momentum Joe picked up by ending Christian's undefeated streak by giving Christian backsies last night. On the other hand, while I like Joe alright, I pretty much just watch TNA for Christian and his Coalition. Does anybody know what the contract status is for these two guys? Because for a monster, Joe loses an awful lot, while Christian, who is kind of a little guy, is booked ridiculously strong.
I think the most frustrating thing about TNA is that the WWE is ripe for the picking, yet TNA can't put out a product that is any better. During the Monday Night War, Raw was better than Nitro for about a year before they actually started beating them in the ratings. The WWE is in a huge creative slump right now, but sadly, so is TNA.
However, I caught about 2/3 of the show last night due to storms in our area preventing The Office from airing, and pretty much liked what I saw. I thought Roode was mired in a pointless feud with Eric Young forever, and has the look/gimmick to be a semi-star, so I am not upset that he gets to feud with Joe. You don't have to look at it as a step down for Joe, look at it as an opportunity to elevate another home grown talent.
I have said it before and I will say it again, I like Joe, but I can understand why they don't get behind him. He plays the role of a bad ass well, but he doesn't look the part. I certainly don't ask that you be a roided up freak, but I sometimes tire of watching him jiggle all over the ring. Would it hurt him to trim up just a little? You don't have to be ripped, just get in shape. He just doesn't have the look to be the face of the company IMO. He is a great performer, but other than Mankind, that isn't always everything. The package is usually just as important as the performance.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
My bad. Samoa Joe has never won a PPV main event that had anything whatsoever riding on it, or a PPV main event where the win wasn't undone both before and after the show. Better?
Oh, and the "star look" argument is so so silly. Joe's a badass. He's the guy that had fans chanting "Joe's gonna kill you" for a year. Saying that his manboobs should be cause to keep him in the midcard is bizarre, and reasoning that'll bite you in the ass the next time some guy gets depushed for not looking like a roided-up freak. Not saying that the two lines of thought - "Joe doesn't look like a star" and "guys need huge muscles to succeed" - are exactly the same, but they're in the same ballpark.
(edited by oldschoolhero on 19.10.07 0924) To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Originally posted by oldschoolheroMy bad. Samoa Joe has never won a PPV main event that had anything whatsoever riding on it, or a PPV main event where the win wasn't undone both before and after the show. Better?
Nope. He won the tag match main event Victory Road with the tag team titles, world title, and X division on the line where he was the defending X champ in the match. He won the match and was the lone tag team champion following that match.
I would say that was undone after the show since it was just to set up him losing all the belts to Kurt after a shocking betrayal.
Everybody wants Kurt, Christian, Sting etc to feud with guys below them but Samoa Joe does and they throw a fit.
Stardate 2000-01. "Everybody wants Austin, Triple H, Undertaker etc to feud with guys below them but Chris Jericho does and they throw a fit." Well yeah, because the fourth name is positioned below the first three and always loses his feuds against them, so him moving down doesn't lift other people up to his level as much as it moves him further away from the top.
Originally posted by oldschoolheroMy bad. Samoa Joe has never won a PPV main event that had anything whatsoever riding on it, or a PPV main event where the win wasn't undone both before and after the show. Better?
Oh, and the "star look" argument is so so silly. Joe's a badass. He's the guy that had fans chanting "Joe's gonna kill you" for a year. Saying that his manboobs should be cause to keep him in the midcard is bizarre, and reasoning that'll bite you in the ass the next time some guy gets depushed for not looking like a roided-up freak. Not saying that the two lines of thought - "Joe doesn't look like a star" and "guys need huge muscles to succeed" - are exactly the same, but they're in the same ballpark.
(edited by oldschoolhero on 19.10.07 0924)
Joe looks like a young Fatu, and look how he progressed. Yokozuna was the same way. Compare Joe now to what he looked like in his early RoH matches. The guy is ballooning at an alarming rate. Even though I specifically said "I don't ask that you be a roided up freak", I knew people would still assume that is what I meant.
Some examples of stars past and present who do not appear to be roided up, but still look in shape: Dibiase, Jericho, Bret, Jake Roberts, Owen, Duggan. Joe looks like he has let himself go, and doesn't even care. I said he played the part well, and I like the guy. I simply made the attempt to find an alternate reason for why he is not given the top spot besides the usual "Christian, Jarrett, or Angle are holding him back" crap.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Originally posted by kentishSome examples of stars past and present who do not appear to be roided up, but still look in shape: Dibiase, Jericho, Bret, Jake Roberts, Owen, Duggan.
0 for 5. That's the whole thing: it's never a good idea to try and guess. Body types like Sandman, Funaki, Spike Dudley, Umaga don't look like they'd be on steroids either, but hey. They're not just for making you look like Mark Jindrak.
Essentially, everyone who worked for WWF in the roid-fueled 80s was using them, even the non-Powers of Pain-types I believe Bret apparently cops to it in his book, and Jake and DiBiase have acknowledged it in interviews. As for Jericho, well, just look at him at any point over the last two years vs. his wrestling career vs. especially the early 2002 period when he was disproportionately thick while trying to live up to the size standards of the world champion.
the usual "Christian, Jarrett, or Angle are holding him back" crap.
It's not so much that other wrestlers are holding him back as TNA is run by probably the most clueless people ever in charge of a wrestling company, don't know how to book feuds, and think that Sting and Kevin Nash still mean anything in 2007 when they didn't even in 2003.
That's not to say Joe hasn't gotten fatter. He's totally fatter. But Umaga's full of fat and still a killer of men. There's a definite boob trend between those two and Morishima. But not looking like everyone else can help you stand out. He's still big and strong and looks like he could beat people up. And he's probably on steroids anyway.
I am not trying to guess who is on roids, that is a fruitless debate. I do know that the guys that I mentioned admitted to using, but that was not my point. I meant that those guys did not LOOK like roided freaks, but were still stars. I am only talking about their appearance, not if they used steroids or not, that is a whole other argument. I am convinced after the last year's events that most of them do/did. But they don't all look like Batista, Warrior, or Luger.
Hell, look at Christian now. He is a star in TNA, and I would almost call him skinny. My point is, I don't think you have to be ripped to shreds, but at least look like you are trying to give the appearance of being in shape.
You won't get any argument from me that TNA is being run by idiots. Nash has no business anywhere near the main event. But Sting is not bad, and the huge "You've still got it" chant last night makes me think the fans still want to see the guy. Those are the same fans who chant "Joe is gonna kill you".
And thanks to JustinShapiro, for introducing me to the term "boob trend".
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Originally posted by kentishI am not trying to guess who is on roids, that is a fruitless debate. I do know that the guys that I mentioned admitted to using, but that was not my point. I meant that those guys did not LOOK like roided freaks, but were still stars. I am only talking about their appearance, not if they used steroids or not, that is a whole other argument.
Sorry, I missed your point the first time. That does make sense. I should also clarify that I'm almost certain Bret was completely natural during the 90s when they were actually drug testing, but in the 80s everyone was an action figure and you'd get absurdity like the juiced up Rockers.
But Sting is not bad, and the huge "You've still got it" chant last night makes me think the fans still want to see the guy.
I give a lot of credit to Sting for working hard. I just meant that Sting headlining PPVs means nothing, or nothing relative to most everyone else in TNA, despite his legend status. Really, Sting headlining any PPV that wasn't Starrcade '97 or Superbrawl '98 has meant next to nothing despite his legend status, but I still like Sting. Owwwww. Maybe Sting/Angle could've been promoted as a special match in a different company who knew how to book, but in TNA I don't think their headlining a PPV means any more than Abyss or Christian or whoever headlining a PPV.
Junior Fatu's promo may be the worst I've seen. I hope this wasn't the best he could do with multiple takes.
I like the sneaky elevation of Roode to Joe's level. It's about time he rose above the gray mud of Harris, Storm, Young, and Kaz.
I'm an idiot. I had hopes that they might try to push Inferno straight, and it seemed that way until his ring entrance.
And I am now officially tired of Kurt Angle. He's stinking the place up with his endless promos. There's a lot of talk on this show (and I won't count the belt ceremony), but Angle seems to be the most egregious abuser of the camera. On the other hand, Scott Steiner stole the whole show with four words: "Mike. [To Inferno] Give it up."
I'm OK with the beatdown of MCMG as they helped cost Team 3D their belts. The Dudz had to seek revenge. Now we see how Shelley/Sabin respond. I'm surprised they were just yanked from the tournament as the logical call is to advance them and match them against other opponents.
Talia Madison is cute as hell, and I hope she has enough ring skill to deserve more airtime.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Regarding Joe, surely I can't be the only one who just doesn't like the guy?
I don't mean I think he sucks, but rather he comes across as a bit of a dick. Not in the cool ass-kicking Steve Austin way either, just as a dick in general. I find it impossible to feel any sympathy for him. Every feud he's had as a babyface I've found myself backing the other guy just because they can't possibly be as dickish as him.
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Originally posted by Matt TrackerI had hopes that they might try to push Inferno straight
PLZ EXPLAIN KTHX
I think Disco is one of the LAST guys in the world that they should bring back. I am hoping that it was just a one-off (or very brief run) as a tie-in to that whatever movie, but I am FEARING that it's going to be a long drawn out supposedly "feel good" underdog story of Disco's return to blah blah ech foo.
Originally posted by Matt TrackerAnd I am now officially tired of Kurt Angle. He's stinking the place up with his endless promos.
I'm a big Angle fan but I agree with you -- he could really do with a little less time on the air.
I don't think Joe's loss was a bad thing or that it deflated Joe's win from the PPV. At BfG Joe beat Cage clean; on Impact, Joe only lost because of interference from three other guys. That seem to me like it positions Joe pretty solidly above Cage, in-ring-wise. (So why has Joe not held the belt? Well, the question of whether or not TNA is posiioning Joe as a choke artist is a whole other question...)
I suspect that the 3D/MCMG feud will go the same way as the 3D/LAX feud -- 3D sells nothing and makes MCMG look like jokes regardless of who wins. (In other words, upon review, I agree with It's False.)
I'll mention one other thing that I don't think anyone has -- there was a woman in the front row during the Robert Roode match holding a "President of the Robert Roode fan club" sign -- I think she went totally unmentioned by Tenay and West, even when Miss Brooks shot he a dirty glare -- uncharacteristically subtle on TNA's part. According to one of the 411 recappers, that's Rain -- looks like Roode, Inc. might get a new CEO soon...? I've seen her in a couple of Shimmer matches but don't know much about her and totally didn't recognize her.
--K
(edited by Karlos the Jackal on 20.10.07 1540) Last 5 movies seen: The Hoax ***1/2 - Monster House *** - 28 Weeks Later **1/2 - 3:10 to Yuma (2007) ***1/2 - Eastern Promises ***1/2
I suffered through the Glen Gilberti: Main Event Threat era in TNA a few years ago, so if they bring Disco back, at least use just him as a comedy act.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
The whole Magilla is on the DVDVR board. Here's what I wrote: ---------------------------- A Round Table Discussion JUSHIN LYGER/WATARU INOUE vs. TSYOSHI KIKUCHI/YOSHINABU KANEMARU - NOAH (2/7/02) JUSHIN LYGER/MINORU TANAKA vs.