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The W - Pro Wrestling - Imagine a world without HHH or UT...
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socetew
Chourico








Since: 23.5.02
From: NYC, baby!

Since last post: 2832 days
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#1 Posted on
If HHH and UT weren't the ones holding down talent in the locker room, then someone else would be cursed out for doing such a thing. Whether it was Vince with his love of large men, Brian Gerwitz with his non-wrestling background, or someone else whom none of us would suspect, there would have to be someone whom we could throw all of our blame on.

Now, it does not help their cause that HHH and UT tend to bore me and others to tears every time they step into the ring. But as much as I'm not the world's biggest fan of either of them, I feel that it becomes a bit ludicrous when people blame them for everyone's lack of push, as well as the current slump in ratings. These two personalities will not be on our TVs forever (knock on wood), and it behooves me to wonder which wrestlers will become the next scapegoats. The Rock? Kurt Angle?

Every wrestler wants to make it to the top and stay there as long as possible. If Billy Kidman, for instance, suddenly became the super hot World Heavyweight Champion, I don't think he would then turn around and try to drop it to some other midcarder just to put him over. No, he would probably only want to wrestle against the big boys, like Kurt, UT and Brock, and no longer want to settle for feuds with Bill DeMott or Jamie Noble.

Take Raven and D'Lo, for example. For the past few years, they were mid-carders in the WWF/E, and presumably some people thought they should be allowed to rise up to the top. As soon as they switched to NWA:TNA, they are both at the top, constantly fighting for the belts. These two men are at the top and involved in all of the major storylines for TNA. And they are essentially holding down all of the lower talent. Only AJ Styles seems to have made it to their level. But other TNA wrestlers who probably thought their big chance was about to arrive are now most likely getting upset as they realize that they will never get past these two new additions to TNA.

It's a dog-eat-dog world in pro wrestling. If HHH and UT were not holding down the other talent (or accused as such), then other wrestlers would be.

--soce, the elemental wizard




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Kolbasz








Since: 1.4.03
From: Dale City, Virginia

Since last post: 1949 days
Last activity: 1889 days
#2 Posted on
The difference between HHH and UT are I think Taker is willing to work with younger talent and not just kill them in the ring. Taker has not held the title for a little bit, while HHH seems hell bent on holding the title for the rest of the year. Plus, after reading HHH's interview on WWE.com, I don't think I ever heard Taker say he is only looking out for himself, like HHH is. So I have to give props to Taker.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

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#3 Posted on
I can imagine a world with no Triple H and UT.
No Dx...
No Casket Matches...
No Inferno Matches...
No Hell in the Cell...

Man, that would suck.

Seriously, so they aren't what they used to be. So maybe they hold talent down, although I still have seen no proof. But both men have done a lot of good in and for wrestling business.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3225 days
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#4 Posted on
It seems to me that when push comes to shove and his reputation among his peers is on the line, The Undertaker will do the right thing.

Triple H, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care about what his peers think of him and just seems to enjoy how everyone has to praise him because they gotta play the game.

I can imagine a world without Triple H, it was 2001.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 5 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
A world without zinc?
Come back, zinc, come back!



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Haggis








Since: 22.2.03
From: North Carolina

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#6 Posted on

    Originally posted by socetew
    Now, it does not help their cause that HHH and UT tend to bore me and others to tears every time they step into the ring. But as much as I'm not the world's biggest fan of either of them, I feel that it becomes a bit ludicrous when people blame them for everyone's lack of push, as well as the current slump in ratings. These two personalities will not be on our TVs forever (knock on wood), and it behooves me to wonder which wrestlers will become the next scapegoats. The Rock? Kurt Angle?




At the risk of continuing yet another HHH thread, I'd like to say, just to balance things out, that I enjoy watching Trips each and every week. Thank you.



"...like the whole idea of a 'war on terrorism'. You can wage war against another country, or on a national group within your own country, but you can't wage war on an abstract noun. How do you know when you've won? When you've got it removed from the Oxford English Dictionary?" ~ Terry Jones

Unabashed HHH mark: because even megalomaniacs need love.
Amazing Telephone
Salami








Since: 12.12.02
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba

Since last post: 232 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#7 Posted on

    Originally posted by Devil's Advocate
    I'd like to say, just to balance things out, that I enjoy watching Trips each and every week.

That is such a perfect username, for this situation.

Anyway, when we say "a world without HHH or UT", do we mean without them right now, or without them ever? It's a critical distinction.
Evil Antler God
Potato korv








Since: 10.1.02

Since last post: 2902 days
Last activity: 1028 days
#8 Posted on
Well jeez, if we're going that route, losing Taker would mean I'd have missed a decade of one of my very favorite characters the Dead Man, along with the Hell in a Cell and that last entertaining heel run of BikerTaker

Losing HHH....uh....well, I'd lose DX and I'd lose Foley having his legacy crushed. And that oh so great one time return of the Warrior

Kinda puts it all in perspective



Anybody can kick people's asses. But it takes a true monster to kick people's asses AND breastfeed at the same time
- Excalibur05
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 89 days
Last activity: 34 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Imagine there's no Triple H.
I wonder if you can.
No one to hold down everyone,
Fair pushes for every man.
Imagine all the people
Bringing the magic back to WWE,
Eeeeee...

You may say I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one.
I hope someday you will join us,
And the world will live as one.


John Lennon's brilliant song “Imagination” tells of a world unhampered by war, fear and oppression, where every man has the right to fully express himself and fully develop his talents. And really, that's what my little tribute up there is all about-- deserving wrestlers on RAW finally crashing through the glass ceiling of Triple H.

Triple H has not jobbed in a singles match on free television or pay-per-view since losing a casket match to Kane back during the Katie Vick angle. He has been pushed above and beyond more entertaining and better wrestlers like Booker T, Rob Van Dam and Chris Jericho. To me, he's the symbol of a WWE administration that is unwilling to risk change, even if it may be for the better, because they feel that what worked in the past will always work. Well, I'm sorry, but it isn't working. I'm not saying that Triple H needs to go out and job to Al Snow, Maven and Rodney Mack week after week. Triple H is clearly a draw, even if he isn't as entertaining as he was in 2000. I'd just like to see someone else get the opportunity to carry the brand's title, that's all.

But I'll tell you... after angles like the one that led to him defeating Booker T at WrestleMania, it feels like the kind of change WWE needs is as unattainable as Lennon's dream of worldwide harmony. And it needn't be that way.



“A laugh can be a very powerful thing. Why, sometimes in life, it's the only weapon we have.”
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IPowerbombedKidman
Chorizo








Since: 5.7.02
From: Ft. Worth Texas

Since last post: 4163 days
Last activity: 4163 days
#10 Posted on
A world without Undertaker is a world without the Ministry of Darkness, Mankind,Kane, Paul Bearer, the Brood, or Sean O'Haire.

Why Mankind, the Brood, or O'Haire? Because their type of dark character would have never happened without the Taker as nobody thought that kind of character was marketable until Mark Calloway proved it possible.

(edited by IPowerbombedKidman on 6.4.03 1109)


"Can you be quiet! I'm finishing up with Catherine the Great... Or should I say Catherine the So-So!"

-JFK, Clone High
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1392 days
Last activity: 300 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by Amazing Telephone

      Originally posted by Devil's Advocate
      I'd like to say, just to balance things out, that I enjoy watching Trips each and every week.

    That is such a perfect username, for this situation.




Don't worry, Excalibur will be along shortly to fill that role, too. (Just playin', Ex!)

Fuelinjected's right, Undertaker will job when it's obvious that he needs to. HHH, on the other hand, will rape a manequin.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport."
"Was he no-selling?"
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2638 days
Last activity: 2637 days
#12 Posted on
Um, okay, but if we didn't have HHH or UT, just as Quezzy said, no DX (or Nation impersonations), no HIAC, or no casket matches. Personally, if there's a wrestler I hate, it's only the character (unless said wrestler isn't nice to his/her fans). HHH and UT aren't as much as they were, but the only reason I continued to watch wrestling is because of how hot HHH was. I took wrestling more seriously when I started to kiss his ass (willingly) four years ago. I'm a woman, so remember my point of view is a tad... different. Taker was around since the days I watched WWF with my brothers. I think that despite all those personal opinions, I honestly think that the thread topic is a tad hypocritical. You tend to forget that as much as you want certain people to go away because of what they're doing now, we can't forget about the good stuff they gave us, and how certain angles and matches would probably not be as entertaining without their natural attributes like charisma, pain thresholds, and emotion. That's why I watch my opinions of wrestlers I don't like (even Shawn). Anyway, that's a knee jerk reaction, and all this explaining is giving me carpal tunnel feelings in my wrists, so that is all.

Ringmistress



Old people aren't the solution to current problems.
Oh god, is that SABLE?! We miss you already, Kurt!
waffleking
Pickled pork








Since: 2.10.02
From: Missouri

Since last post: 2791 days
Last activity: 480 days
#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    Imagine there's no Triple H.
    I wonder if you can.
    No one to hold down everyone,
    Fair pushes for every man.
    Imagine all the people
    Bringing the magic back to WWE,
    Eeeeee...

    You may say I'm a dreamer,
    But I'm not the only one.
    I hope someday you will join us,
    And the world will live as one.


    John Lennon's brilliant song “Imagination” tells of a world unhampered by war, fear and oppression, where every man has the right to fully express himself and fully develop his talents. And really, that's what my little tribute up there is all about-- deserving wrestlers on RAW finally crashing through the glass ceiling of Triple H.

    Triple H has not jobbed in a singles match on free television or pay-per-view since losing a casket match to Kane back during the Katie Vick angle. He has been pushed above and beyond more entertaining and better wrestlers like Booker T, Rob Van Dam and Chris Jericho. To me, he's the symbol of a WWE administration that is unwilling to risk change, even if it may be for the better, because they feel that what worked in the past will always work. Well, I'm sorry, but it isn't working. I'm not saying that Triple H needs to go out and job to Al Snow, Maven and Rodney Mack week after week. Triple H is clearly a draw, even if he isn't as entertaining as he was in 2000. I'd just like to see someone else get the opportunity to carry the brand's title, that's all.

    But I'll tell you... after angles like the one that led to him defeating Booker T at WrestleMania, it feels like the kind of change WWE needs is as unattainable as Lennon's dream of worldwide harmony. And it needn't be that way.



Dammit, you beat me to it.
I swear to God that when I read the first post of this thread I was going to do a "Imagine" parody.



Quoth the Norman Darter, "Well Forevermore!"
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 29 days
Last activity: 15 hours
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#14 Posted on
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    Imagine there's no Triple H.


Ok...Yeah. What if, Big Show got HHH's big push as the company's top heel champion, and proceeded to have really shitty matches against Foley (ending his career), Rock, Kane, Jericho, Rikishi and all sorts of other "big name" talent while Taker and Austin waited out their injuries. Even though he's pushed over every established star in the company, Show couldn't draw on his own, and ratings through late '99 into early 2001 tank severly. Kurt Angle would have had no one to tease a major feud with in the upper card after a brief feud with Rocky, and would still be wrestling in circles with Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit over the IC title. That'd be great.



    I wonder if you can.


Well, I can. It's a matter of if I'd want to or not.



    No one to hold down everyone,


Bull. If it's not HHH, or Undertaker, it's somebody else. It's convenient to nitpick him because he's sleeping with Stephanie, but it's a business and the top star is always going to try to stay the top star, no matter who it is.



    Fair pushes for every man


I doubt it. First of all, the word "Fair" is subjective. What do you mean by "fair" pushes. If I were in charge of the WWE, I'd probably push people you didn't like and vice versa. Who's scheme is more fair? And how is it fair for "every" man. Some people are going to get pushed more than others, and there will always be those people who say that the pushes for those getting pushed are undeserved, and those without deserve them.

I could say that I think Tommy Dreamer deserves to be in the main event, and that's what's fair for him, and that Chris Benoit deserves to be right where he is, and that's what's fair to him. And I bet there'd be a lot of people who disagree with me. Who is right? Who is wrong? Both of us and neither of us.



    Imagine all the people


Like A-Train and Nathan Jones?



    Bringing the magic back to WWE


Oh. Like Papa Shango.

Again, who's to say that it'd be any more "magical"? I for one would think it'd be a lot LESS magical without two of the bigger stars in the past 10 years.



    Eeeeee...


Well...I can't argue with that.



    You may say I'm a dreamer


That's Tommy. Yes, you're a dreamer. We all are. That doesn't mean you're right. Admittedly, it doesn't mean I'm right either, but then again, I'm not the one advocating going back and erasing years of history.



    But I'm not the only one.


You're right. You're not.



    I hope someday you will join us


Unlikely. I hope you join US



    And the world will live as one


Then RAW would only score Neilson ratings for one of us, and it'd get cancelled. That certainly wouldn't be good.

It's a nice dream, and I hope you keep it. I think however, that it's a particularily backwards one, and not really in line with how reality should and does work.

Yeah, it's your dream world, but in the real world, things like this just aren't real. The WWE's problems aren't going to simply be solved by HHH jobbing, Undertaker retiring and new guys at the top of the card.


    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    Don't worry, Excalibur will be along shortly to fill that role, too


What can I say? I can't stay away.

(edited by Excalibur05 on 6.4.03 1827)

Satire 03/31/03 (wienerboard.com) <- No kidding, right?
Buffy 7.17 gets a 7.87 So...Spike and Wood have Oedipus complexes...riiiiight...
jwrestle
Lap cheong








Since: 4.4.03
From: Nitro WV

Since last post: 130 days
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Y!:
#15 Posted on
I watched HHH come up through the ranks...I don't know why he won't work new talent. Taker, I have watched him since his debut in 90. Long live Taker...remember he is the one that put over Maven for his short live Hardcore title run. There both ivolved in the BS politics game but at least one of them will bend to benifit the business. That man is Taker. Yet both of them have contributed to a ton of memories over the past years. I can't complain to much. Props to Taker. HHH, get over it there will someone better than you. Oh, I forgot that's the Rock but he's in Hollywood half the time.



Please keep the themes alive
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 89 days
Last activity: 34 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Excalibur, with all due respect, I didn't say anything about erasing all the years of history that Triple H has contributed to this business (nor did I say anything about Undertaker at all). What I'm saying is that Trips needs to step the hell off of his pedestal and let someone else have an opportunity to carry the company, because it's clear to me that he's no longer capable of doing so.

If you'd talked to me in late-1999, all of 2000 and early 2001, I would have told you I was all about Triple H. When he feuded with people, he made them look like a million bucks. Indeed, I can tell you without a trace of hyperbole that it was the Kurt Angle-Triple H-Stephanie love triangle in 2000 that boosted Kurt to the main event.

How many guys has Triple H helped since he returned from his injury? Ask Chris Jericho about that sometime... or have you forgotten that they made the WrestleMania X-8 main event more about dog poop than the Jericho-HHH feud? Even though the match on the marquee said “WWF Undisputed Title: Chris Jericho vs. Triple H”, the WWF made Stephanie and Triple H's dog more important to the feud than Jericho.

And it seems the typical Triple H defense to say that he's sleeping with Stephanie because “guys at the top are gonna want to stay at the top.” But no other WWE Superstar is sleeping with a member of the McMahon family, are they? For Triple H to remain champion, future in-law and have a voice in company policy constitutes a conflict of interest in my opinion. Because he's allegedly engaged to Stephanie, he's not going to leave the top spot until he retires, either voluntarily or due to injury. And even then, he'd probably be put in a commissioner role or something.

Y'know, I have no problem with Triple H getting TV time, or going over guys once in awhile. But to job in a singles match only once in the last eight months is ridiculous. Having Triple H retain his title against Booker T at WrestleMania (after one Pedigree, mind you, while every other high-profile match required multiple finishers) is ludicrous. I'm not advocating that Triple H job to Ultimate Warrior in 93 seconds (although I'd like to buy WrestleMania XII just to see that), I'm just saying that someone needs to beat his ass for the belt, all freakin' ready. And keep the belt off him for a little while.

For the love of God... Hulk Hogan and The Undertaker, two of the most infamous politicians in WWE history, have been putting people over recently. I think that Hogan probably lost more matches in 2002 than he won, but by doing so, he made the guys that beat him look like a million bucks. The Undertaker was beaten to a bloody pulp by Lesnar, making Lesnar look like an unstoppable monster. Triple H, on the other hand, makes everyone he feuds with look like shit. RVD and Kane never recovered from their feuds with Triple H, and I fear that Booker T may soon suffer the same fate.

It's clear that something needs to change, and when you talk about change, you have to start at the top.

(edited by ekedolphin on 7.4.03 0531)


“A laugh can be a very powerful thing. Why, sometimes in life, it's the only weapon we have.”
--Roger Rabbit, Who Framed Roger Rabbit

Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Wiener of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

Certified RFMC Member-- Ask To See My Credentials!

Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 28 days
Last activity: 2 days
AIM:  
#17 Posted on
"Triple H has not jobbed in a singles match on free television or pay-per-view since losing a casket match to Kane back during the Katie Vick angle. "

Big Deal. First of all I don't see why you include only singles matches. If somebody gets pinned in a tag match, like both RVD and Booker T have done to Triple H, then it looks just as bad as a singles match. Second of all who cares? The only people who realize that Triple H hasn't lost in so long are people who are obsessed with bashing Triple H. I hadn't noticed it has been that long, and I highly doubt the regular fan does either. Instead of obsessing over who wins our not just enjoy the matches on Raw. There is plenty to enjoy.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#18 Posted on

    Originally posted by Excalibur05

      Eeeeee...


    Well...I can't argue with that.



Excalibur, you make me laugh. Thank you.

Oh, and bottom line is a world without HHH is a world in which Ringmistress can focus her affections and ass kissing entirely on Randy Orton, something which the young lad is surely not ready for yet ;)



"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
BOSsportsfan34
Pepperoni








Since: 2.1.03
From: MA

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 5 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#19 Posted on
If HHH and/or the Undertaker weren't around, people would be complaining about some other wrestler(s). It's human nature to find a scapegoat.



Only one man can turn the WWE around....

redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 442 days
Last activity: 442 days
#20 Posted on

    Originally posted by IPowerbombedKidman
    A world without Undertaker is a world without the Ministry of Darkness, Mankind,Kane, Paul Bearer, the Brood, or Sean O'Haire.

    Why Mankind, the Brood, or O'Haire? Because their type of dark character would have never happened without the Taker as nobody thought that kind of character was marketable until Mark Calloway proved it possible.

    (edited by IPowerbombedKidman on 6.4.03 1109)







I have to disagree on this point. Kevin Sullivan in Florida in the late 70's/early 80's drew big money as a Satanic character. He sold out the Orange Bowl on the 4th of July (which, if you use current WWF/E propaganda, is a bad wrestling night) for a feud with Blackjack Mulligan. His feud with Dusty Rhodes made the Florida territory strong into the mid 80's. As much as we hate Sullivan for his work in WCW towards the end and for the Dungeon of Doom, he does deserve credit for his earlier accomplishments.



There is only one man left to save Vince McMahon and the WWF/E. Where have you gone Greg Gagne, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
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I saw this one linked to one of the Lawler promos. Good God! How much coke was Piper on at that point?!?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHh9Wb--J0M&mode=related&search=
- kentish, Tons of Classic Promos (2007)
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