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The W - Pro Wrestling - If Batista Loses?
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PerthHeat
Mettwurst








Since: 16.8.04
From: Perth Australia

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.36
I have been predicting for weeks/months that Batista will beat HHH at Wrestlemania 21 for the World Title. But what if he doesnt? Will everyone feel cheated? Will this actually be a good thing for Batista and the WWE?

I would feel cheated if he doesnt, and thats all credit to the creative team for making me feel this way, and I think most of those in the stadium would feel cheated as well.But is it a good thing for HHH to retain stretching it out a little longer, pumping up Batista as the " Animal'' who loses control everytime someone mentions his loss? It depends on what the WWE want Batista to be ..a face or a heel or the tweener. I like the Tweener idea where he is a rage machine striking down anyone friend or foe in his sole pursuit of HHH. You could have HHH show his fear and anger and then comes Backlash , where the match up would be just as good and probably a little less pressure on Batista to perform in the ring

The only concern over this idea is the after. What happens when he wins and his rage goes. How would that be handled, or would that be the time he morphs into the babyface.



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Since: 16.12.02
From: Minneapolis

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.73
You want Batista to be Ken Shamrock?
Phantom
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Since: 17.3.02

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.68
Except what makes Batista cool is that he actually seems to have a brain in his head. He's the "Animal" in the ring, but beyond that his character is cunning. For him to go nuts and turn into a mindless rage machine would strip him of that.
ColeKingsly
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Since: 24.1.05
From: Dayton

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.08
On one hand I want him to win, but on the other should he win in his first meeting with HHH? Back in the day the baby face challenger would never win in their first match up with the champ. I think if they could pull off a great match with no interference and many close 2 counts for Batista only to have him lose clean to HHH, it would would be good.

If he wins in his first try, then it is like "ok, now what." Sort of like with Orton.

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Since: 24.2.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
If Batista wins, they can probably do a re-match at Backlash with an additional stipulation. Like a Falls Count Anywhere match? I think that would be really good.




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Since: 17.3.02

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
    Originally posted by Mack Salmon
    If Batista wins, they can probably do a re-match at Backlash with an additional stipulation. Like a Falls Count Anywhere match? I think that would be really good.
Exactly. You’d have a month to build up the rematch, and could add a whole new element to the story. Batista’s story going into Wrestlemania is that he appears unstoppable, and that there doesn’t seem to be anything HHH can do to beat him.

Once Batista’s the champ, you can start giving him some cracks. Set up the rematch, and this time you can allow HHH to find some sort of weakness he can exploit. Have Batista suffer some sort of injury on Raw that HHH can capitalize on, so that victory isn’t a foregone conclusion.
Texas Kelly
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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
    Originally posted by ColeKingsly
    On one hand I want him to win, but on the other should he win in his first meeting with HHH? Back in the day the baby face challenger would never win in their first match up with the champ.

While this is true, the rules are different with HHH because he's been so dominant. Goldberg's effectiveness as a babyface champion was hampered considerably by the fact that after tearing through an Elimination Chamber with four other men, facing off with HHH for the first time one-on-one, HHH (while injured) pinned him clean. Kane, Rob Van Dam, and Booker T have all been stuck in character purtagory because HHH never let any of them get one-up on him. Jericho... well, we won't go there.

The other example that sticks out in my mind is Randy Orton. I know most of the IWC hates him, but jobbing him to HHH was the wrongest possible thing they could have done at the time, and I said it before it even happened:

    Randy's whole babyface push has been centered around the fact that Randy knows Evolution enough to be able to outsmart them. (Benoit's push, on the other hand, was based simply on him being a better wrestler than Hunter.) Bottom line, if Hunter wins the belt now, the whole crux of Randy's push will have been completely discredited, and that will set him back months (if not years). Yes, I agree that Hunter has to get the belt back eventually, but not now. They've made their bed with Randy now, and unless they want to cut his balls off, they've gotta sleep in it.

And that's precisely what they did. I'd even dare to say that Randy wouldn't have half the backlash that he has now if he hadn't jobbed at Unforgiven.

Giving the babyface the first battle of the war with HHH goes a long way in getting the babyface over and giving him some of HHH's rub. Look at Shelton Benjamin, for instance: There's no way in hell he's as over today as he is if he doesn't win that match against HHH the first night in. Same for Chris Benoit: His babyface character and run as champion would not have been as fruitful had HHH not done the clean job in their first encounter.

Batista is no different. He has been booked as a monster, as a force that not even the almighty HHH can stop. If Batista jobs on Sunday, you will be cutting the balls off of his character just as the WWE did with Randy Orton in September. And there's no way they can afford to do that.

Fortunately, if Vince McMahon is to be believed, they won't.



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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.94
I would be ready to listen to the arguments in favour of Batista losing if the champion were not HHH. The problem is that there have been so many contenders built up over the last couple of years that looked like they could win only to have HHH beat them and have them subsequently become irrelevant. Batista is a hot new commodity right now, so they would be stupid to run that risk of trying to milk the extra PPV out of him before he gets the belt.

On one hand, maybe Batista gets cheated and it makes people want to see the rematch. On the other, maybe Batista gets beat and people feel stupid for getting invested in him in the first place as he wound up being just another putz that HHH can list off on his "I'm the greatest, I beat ____ and _____ and _____" promos. When they've had the problems they've had in building up new guys to put on top, they should not be messing with the formula now trying to be cute. A Batista/HHH rematch with a stipulation and Batista as champ will make a similar amount of money at Backlash as would the same match with Batista in the challenger spot.

Sometimes obvious works.



KathyNumbers
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Since: 15.6.02
From: Philadelphia, PA

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.72
I figure Hunter can't get the belt back without losing it to Batista, and H seems to be going for quantity with that lately. I see Hunter losing it here, getting it back the next PPV, then moving on to Edge, with Batista left in the wake as an afterthought.

Orton's not the only one who suffered from a lousy title reign due to HHH and the writing staff. Remember Jericho - Undisputed Champ?

If Stephanie shows her face at all, I'd be afraid - VERY afraid.
Deputy Marshall
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Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.13
    Originally posted by Phantom
    Except what makes Batista cool is that he actually seems to have a brain in his head. He's the "Animal" in the ring, but beyond that his character is cunning. For him to go nuts and turn into a mindless rage machine would strip him of that.


What got Batista over was the fact that he wouldn't say anything, he'd just go to the ring and absolutely destroy people. All the promos he's given and the backstage segments he's been involved in since then have hurt that. He used to be a big man with mystique who'd do a good squash. Now he's just a big man, and nobody thtat I talk to is really all that interested in his character (by which I mean people I know personally who are wrestling fans, not people posting on The W).


    If Batista jobs on Sunday, you will be cutting the balls off of his character just as the WWE did with Randy Orton in September. And there's no way they can afford to do that.


Haven't they already though? They've already had HHH repeatedly say he's dumb and out of his league. People describe Batista's character as "cunning," but what has he really done that would be considered cunning? Other than standing outside doorways and overhearing conversations, I'm drawing a blank.

Long story short, I fail to see what a Batista title reign would do. At all. Seems like people are interested in seeing HHH lose, but don't really care that much that it's going to be Batista that beats him. Not a good sign.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 2.4.05 1912)


Monte
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Since: 27.3.03
From: Montauk, New York

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#11 Posted on
The thing that sticks in my head is HHH's persistant chase of the 17 career title reigns... I think he is going to lose only to win it back a month later. I just know the guy has his agenda precisely laid out and above "pay attention to the fact that we have a legit main eventer in Batista" is "get to 17, worry about everything else after"



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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.79
Batista probably could survive not walking out of Mania with the belt. However, it would be a necessity for him to win the belt at the April RAW PPV, or else the Lex Luger Choke Artist stigma gets attached to him. If that occurs, it probably would mean a full cycle through the upper-mid-card before Batista could be viewed as a viable main eventer again, and that would time line wise be around SummerSlam '06. It is either April '05 or Bust for the Batista Main Event Credibility Push.
FurryHippie
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Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.85
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall



      If Batista jobs on Sunday, you will be cutting the balls off of his character just as the WWE did with Randy Orton in September. And there's no way they can afford to do that.


    Haven't they already though? They've already had HHH repeatedly say he's dumb and out of his league. People describe Batista's character as "cunning," but what has he really done that would be considered cunning?


I'll give you that he's not "cunning"....but his speaking roles have shown him as more than a dumb beast. I don't agree that he was over as the "asskicking machine", I believe he got more over as soon as they started giving him clever one liners here and there. I remember at Vengeance '04, his reaction to Eugene's disappearance under Evolution's watch ("Who cares") won me over immediately. And I'm pretty sure he wasn't too popular or "over" at that time.

I don't know what you are talking about by saying they've already cut the balls off his character by Triple H downplaying him....ummmm have you noticed that Dave has gotten the upperhand in every confrontation/segment that's involved Triple H? Am I watching the same show? Triple H saying Dave is "dumb" is kind of...well...what he's SUPPOSED to do. Do want Triple H to shake his hand, say Dave is great, and look forward to a tough challenge at Mania? No, HHH hates those he fears, and it's obvious he's afraid of Dave...I mean you have been able to pick that up right?


    Long story short, I fail to see what a Batista title reign would do. At all.


Making the audience happy (You may notice that Batista is over with the crowd now), and how about finishing a logical storyline? Doesn't seem THAT difficult to understand.



(edited by FurryHippie on 2.4.05 1936)
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.16

If Batista is set to lose, then the Cena/JBL match should close the show. One of the worst 'Mania ends came when Triple H retained the title at WM2K.



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Summer 2005
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
Batista is in that hot, but really for how long range. Scott Steiner popped the crowd as big as Batista, but he was poorly booked and blew to many spots and before you knew it he was jobbing with Test.

I'd have Batista lose. It might hurt the PPV in the long run, but have him lose just to see what happens. If he gets the Psycho Sid pop then let him win the next PPV. HOwever, you shake it there is no one at the top ready to spike this thing ala Stone Cold/Mankind/Rocky so I'd go with who is hot.





Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 12 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.13
    Originally posted by FurryHippie
    I don't know what you are talking about by saying they've already cut the balls off his character by Triple H downplaying him....ummmm have you noticed that Dave has gotten the upperhand in every confrontation/segment that's involved Triple H? Am I watching the same show? Triple H saying Dave is "dumb" is kind of...well...what he's SUPPOSED to do. Do want Triple H to shake his hand, say Dave is great, and look forward to a tough challenge at Mania? No, HHH hates those he fears, and it's obvious he's afraid of Dave...I mean you have been able to pick that up right?


He's gotten the upper-hand each time physically, but HHH keeps insulting his intelligence. Brute force is one thing, but Batista hasn't done anything to really show that he can outsmart HHH. As a heel, HHH should be saying something about Batista that Batista then goes out and in turn disproves. He's not doing that with the whole "dumb" thing.

    Originally posted by FurryHippie
    Making the audience happy (You may notice that Batista is over with the crowd now), and how about finishing a logical storyline? Doesn't seem THAT difficult to understand.


Title REIGN. Not winning the title, I said title REIGN. Man, for a guy who took care to come off as so condescending, you didn't take much time to actually read what I wrote.

Finishing a logical storyline and making the crowd happy, that's what a title WIN would do. A Batista title REIGN would be a little trickier, because they don't have any heels that seem ready to be next in line to face him. An Edge feud might work, but there's been a couple blunders here and there that might hamper that. Besides, I wonder if the crowd would even buy Edge as a viable threat to Batista. Orton could work, depending on how far they're going with the heel push (and if they're keeping him on RAW which I assume they are). Other than that, I can't reallyu think of any other option than continuing the feud with HHH, which would just push the reset button on everything they've done up to this point.



FurryHippie
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Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.74
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
      Originally posted by FurryHippie
      I don't know what you are talking about by saying they've already cut the balls off his character by Triple H downplaying him....ummmm have you noticed that Dave has gotten the upperhand in every confrontation/segment that's involved Triple H? Am I watching the same show? Triple H saying Dave is "dumb" is kind of...well...what he's SUPPOSED to do. Do want Triple H to shake his hand, say Dave is great, and look forward to a tough challenge at Mania? No, HHH hates those he fears, and it's obvious he's afraid of Dave...I mean you have been able to pick that up right?


    He's gotten the upper-hand each time physically, but HHH keeps insulting his intelligence. Brute force is one thing, but Batista hasn't done anything to really show that he can outsmart HHH. As a heel, HHH should be saying something about Batista that Batista then goes out and in turn disproves. He's not doing that with the whole "dumb" thing.

      Originally posted by FurryHippie
      Making the audience happy (You may notice that Batista is over with the crowd now), and how about finishing a logical storyline? Doesn't seem THAT difficult to understand.


    Title REIGN. Not winning the title, I said title REIGN. Man, for a guy who took care to come off as so condescending, you didn't take much time to actually read what I wrote.

    Finishing a logical storyline and making the crowd happy, that's what a title WIN would do. A Batista title REIGN would be a little trickier, because they don't have any heels that seem ready to be next in line to face him. An Edge feud might work, but there's been a couple blunders here and there that might hamper that. Besides, I wonder if the crowd would even buy Edge as a viable threat to Batista. Orton could work, depending on how far they're going with the heel push (and if they're keeping him on RAW which I assume they are). Other than that, I can't reallyu think of any other option than continuing the feud with HHH, which would just push the reset button on everything they've done up to this point.


Let's not have a cow, brutha, I did read what you said and I understood what you meant by "reign". But winning the title kind of constitues a "reign", another logical conclusion to the storyline. Unless, of course, we want Batista to be built up to this point, win the belt, and lose it right back to HHH so he can have one more notch on his way to 17. That would be pretty illogical, once again. A feud with Triple H can be drawn out for a little while longer, I don't think anybody sees that as such a horrible option. Then maybe he moves on to mess with Edge a bit before (inevitably) dropping it back to Triple H. Because, come on, we know that's where it's going EVENTUALLY. But that's no reason not to give Dave a few months with the title, have an interesting story line or two before that point. But does that count as a reign to you? I say he could carry the ball for a few months, if for no other reason than we need a new champ, and Dave is a fresh face.

He shouldn't be humiliated by getting crushed and HHH moving on to somebody else, and he shouldn't just have his quick "win" at Mania just to throw it right back to HHH. To me, the win....AND reign....still seem pretty cut and dry logical.

(edited by FurryHippie on 3.4.05 1410)
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