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|  #1 Posted on 22.9.04 0218.44 | Instant Rating: 5.57 | After a 5-for-5 night against his personal bitch Aaron Sele (career .623 average), Ichiro only needs 15 hits in eleven games to break George Sisler's record. He already has the record for most singles in a season, previously held by Wee Willie Keeler, who only played A CENTURY AGO.
Am I the only one who finds this much more fascinating than Barry Balco's march towards the home run record.
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|  #2 Posted on 22.9.04 0229.44 | Instant Rating: 8.81 | He has to do it in 7 games to do it in 154 though - isn't that the number in the 1920 season?
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| #3 Posted on 22.9.04 0408.22 | Instant Rating: 5.00 | I actually remember a radio debate on my local ESPN radio, asking what was more impressive: Ichiro's number of hits or Barry Bonds' number of walks. Everyone unanimously chose Bonds' walk count.
Something about that is extremely sad.
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| #4 Posted on 22.9.04 0818.23 | Instant Rating: 6.89 | Originally posted by Guru Zim
He has to do it in 7 games to do it in 154 though - isn't that the number in the 1920 season?
Not that I'd bet against him doing it in seven games or anything, but do you really think there should be an asterisk if he does it in 162 games? Given the improved quality of pitching, specialization, more travel, etc., I'd argue 257 hits in 162 games in 2004 is AT LEAST as impressive as 257 in 154 in 1920.
I saw Ichiro get a hit off Ramon Ortiz last night on a grounder to second. Unbelievable. I also highly doubt Sisler had to face anybody with as filthy stuff as Ortiz.
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| #5 Posted on 22.9.04 1037.21 | Instant Rating: 6.41 |
After going thru a 7-for-41 slump, Ichiro had two hits in last two at Bats Monday and then went 5 for 5 last night.
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| #6 Posted on 22.9.04 1052.05 | Instant Rating: 7.06 | He doesn't need to do it in 154 for one simple reason, the changes in pitching over the decades.
The reason that some aren't as high on this is the fact that his at-bats are meaningless. If they were contenders and he was doing this, wow. Either way it's damn impressive.
And like or hate him, Bonds walks are impressive. I don't think steroids improve his eyesight and judgement.
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| #7 Posted on 27.9.04 1258.56 | Instant Rating: 0.00 | After 154 games played for each, it's always dangerous to compare stats from different eras, but I'll do it anyway:
Sisler: 257 hits, .407 BA, 631 AB, 46 BB, 19 SO.
Ichiro: 251 hits, .373 BA, 673 AB, 48 BB, 58 SO.
Similar enough for me. Ichiro's power numbers are a different story, but they're not paying him to hit dingers.
As for Bonds's walks, if the Giants had a real #5 hitter, he wouldn't get half as many. It's as if Babe Ruth had Mark Koenig hitting behind him instead of Lou Gehrig.
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| #8 Posted on 30.9.04 1723.20 | Instant Rating: 6.58 | Originally posted by vsp
After 154 games played for each, it's always dangerous to compare stats from different eras, but I'll do it anyway:
Sisler: 257 hits, .407 BA, 631 AB, 46 BB, 19 SO.
Ichiro: 251 hits, .373 BA, 673 AB, 48 BB, 58 SO.
Similar enough for me. Ichiro's power numbers are a different story, but they're not paying him to hit dingers.
Sisler's season was a lot better than Ichiro's. I don't care what they're paying him to do, Sisler hit more homers, drove in more runs, hit 30+ points higher (and thus has 30+ points in OBP) and slugged .632 that year with 19 HR, 49 doubles and 18 triples. It really doesn't compare to slap-and-dash singles hitting. Or, rather, slap-and-dash singles hitting doesn't really compare.
As for Bonds's walks, if the Giants had a real #5 hitter, he wouldn't get half as many.
Shockingly, Bonds walked 177 times in '01 and 198 times in '02 with Jeff Kent hitting behind him.
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| #9 Posted on 30.9.04 1739.11 | Instant Rating: 6.93 | Originally posted by ScottChrist
As for Bonds's walks, if the Giants had a real #5 hitter, he wouldn't get half as many.
Shockingly, Bonds walked 177 times in '01 and 198 times in '02 with Jeff Kent hitting behind him.
Kent made walking Bonds a very difficult decision many times those years, and that was also when Bonds stopped hitting third and started hitting fourth regularly. He's walked 225 times so far this year, and that's 27 times mroe than his previous high, 50 more than his second highest, and 75 more times than last season. | PalpatineW
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| #10 Posted on 30.9.04 2135.09 | Instant Rating: 9.00 | Originally posted by Whitebacon
Originally posted by ScottChrist
As for Bonds's walks, if the Giants had a real #5 hitter, he wouldn't get half as many.
Shockingly, Bonds walked 177 times in '01 and 198 times in '02 with Jeff Kent hitting behind him.
Kent made walking Bonds a very difficult decision many times those years, and that was also when Bonds stopped hitting third and started hitting fourth regularly. He's walked 225 times so far this year, and that's 27 times mroe than his previous high, 50 more than his second highest, and 75 more times than last season.
All of which misses the corollary that if Bonds didn't get half as many walks, he'd have how many more HR, RBI, R? And would he have hit .400?
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| #11 Posted on 1.10.04 2323.04 | Instant Rating: 2.93 | http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1893214
Congrats and I agree with Joe Morgan they should have a 154 record and a 162. What an amazing year. | Whitebacon
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| #12 Posted on 2.10.04 0256.33 | Instant Rating: 6.93 |
So does Babe Ruth's and the Maris/McGwire/Bonds HR record go into seperate categories now too?
Maybe we should just put an asterik next to Ichiro's, since he had eight more games to do it, but also had to do it in an age of hyper-specialization. | Grimis
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| #13 Posted on 2.10.04 0830.03 | Instant Rating: 7.29 | Originally posted by BWT
Congrats and I agree with Joe Morgan they should have a 154 record and a 162. What an amazing year.
Ever notice nobody wants to break down NFL records based on the 12, 14, or 16 game schedule?
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| #14 Posted on 2.10.04 0901.36 | Instant Rating: 2.92 | Originally posted by Grimis
Originally posted by BWT
Congrats and I agree with Joe Morgan they should have a 154 record and a 162. What an amazing year.
Ever notice nobody wants to break down NFL records based on the 12, 14, or 16 game schedule?
Oh I'm all for having different record books in sports depending on the season lengths. Honestly Sisler had six more hits after 154 games and I think for another player to "beat" him is ridiculous when he did it in six more games. In no way am I trying to take away from what Ichiro did but he did have an advantage to do it. Lets just say that both had amazing seasons and that the game is much different then it was then. Ichiro did something that Gwynn , Rose, Williams and Cob never did, the man deserves his props. I think a better question is will he win the MVP now. I don't think he will but he deserves to. | Whitebacon
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| #15 Posted on 2.10.04 1424.12 | Instant Rating: 6.93 | | Why does he deserve to win the MVP? He set a record, but he didn't carry his team to anything. An overwhelming number of his hits are singles. Scott already established that Sisler had a better overall season when he initially set the record. I don't mean to take anything away from Ichiro, as this was a tremendous feat, but he's is not deserving of the AL MVP. Vladmir, Manny, Santana, Ortiz, Sheffield, and Rivera are all much more worthy candidates. Plus, with the writers giving the award to a guy from a last place team last year, they probably won't do it this year. | Big Bad
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| #16 Posted on 2.10.04 2349.35 | Instant Rating: 5.58 | Fun fact: Ichiro has also set a new major-league record for most hits over a four-season span. The old record was set by Bill Terry back in the 1930's.
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| #17 Posted on 3.10.04 1814.17 | Instant Rating: 6.89 | Originally posted by Big Bad
Fun fact: Ichiro has also set a new major-league record for most hits over a four-season span. The old record was set by Bill Terry back in the 1930's.
But, Ichiro had thirty-two more games in HIS four seasons...*rolls eyes*
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| #18 Posted on 3.10.04 1948.33 | Instant Rating: 8.81 | Maybe a better cross-generational stat would be hits/game w/ a minimum number of games played - sort of like ERA. I think it is a real issue trying to compare the "number of X in a season" stats between eras when length is different.
Maybe some sort of stat with a different definition of AB - Hits per Actual number of times up or something. Don't take one off of the book for a walk.
I dunno - I think there should be different stats for different eras. Call the old era Baseball V1 and put us on Baseball V4 - give each expansion era a new version and lock the records.
I mean, what if they go to 200 games at some point? What if it really makes sense to - would we not do it just so we can keep the records pristine?
What if it makes sense to drop to 100 games but in more markets?
Version numbers. I think that's the key. No one really expects perfect conversion from Microsoft Word 3.0 and Office 2003. That's only over 20 years!
(edited by Guru Zim on 3.10.04 1748)
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