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20.12.14 0618
The W - Baseball - Ichiro and 250 hits....
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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I just looked at Ichrio's numbers on ESPN and realized this nugget:

Ichrio
Hits(YTD): 185
Hits(projected): 256

That is ONE hit shy of the single season record, a record that has stood since 1920.

In fact, take into account that these are the only 250 seasons in baseball history...

George Sisler 257(Browns, 1920)
Lefty O'Doul 254(Phillies, 1929)
Bill Terry 254(Giants, 1930)
Al Simmons 253(A's, 1925)
Rogers Hornsby 250(Cardinals, 1922)
Chuck Klein 250(Phillies, 1930)

74 years since the last guy(s) to reach 250, and only Ichiro in 2001, Wade Boggs(1985) and Darrin Erstad(2000) have reached 240 since 1930.

(Incidentally, how does it feel to be Chuck Klein, have 250 hits, tied for fifth most ever, and not lead the league in hits?)

Anybody else think that breaking the hits record may be just a touch more impressive than Bonds breaking the home run record?

EDIT: At this pace, Ichiro would actually also shatter the record for lowest batting average with 250+hits(Ichiro is hitting .362. The lowest average amongst the six is Chuck Klein, .386).


(edited by Grimis on 16.8.04 1245)


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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.95
Ichiro has been UNBELIEVABLE lately. Early in the year they were trying to get him to walk more and take more pitches and I think it messed him up, and now he's back to better than his old self. Plus, that was a BOMB he hit off Kevin Brown yesterday.



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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.24
Anybody remember the Chevy ad where they had a New York License plate, that read 114 BFD on it? Same applies here. 250 hits on a losing team is just a guy hitting a lot and it not helping a single bit.



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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
Hey, it isn't Ichiro's fault that his teammates suck the bag. In fact, it makes his feat more impressive, since there's conceivably no reason for opposing managers not to treat him like Bonds and just walk him every time. Of course, Ichiro is a bigger threat to steal than Barry, but....well, I have no point.

I'm hoping he breaks it, or at least just doesn't do his usual August-September fade (he's on my fantasy team).



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Anybody remember the Chevy ad where they had a New York License plate, that read 114 BFD on it? Same applies here. 250 hits on a losing team is just a guy hitting a lot and it not helping a single bit.


I love you like a fellow internet poster, Stagger, but your baseball analysis continues to wallow in the Morganian.

250 hits is a pretty good individual achievement, regardless of what his teammates do.

As far as that being better than the HR record... nah. Every HR guarantees a run. So while it's certainly impressive, the home run is, in general, a more impressive feat than the hit.



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SC
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.34
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Anybody remember the Chevy ad where they had a New York License plate, that read 114 BFD on it? Same applies here. 250 hits on a losing team is just a guy hitting a lot and it not helping a single bit.


My God. So how was he supposed to help? By magically willing his crappy teammates to being better players? How much more could he have possibly helped than hitting .360 and being on pace to challenge the all-time hits record? If he had been traded mid-season to a contender, does that make HIM a better player, or just his achievement superior because the people around him are better?

I'm sorry, but your logic really makes no sense at all. Players can't really help their teams by doing anything more than playing well. Whether or not the rest of their team does the same is not up to them.



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Since: 6.6.04

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.23
I actually read some articles on ESPN around the All-Star Break getting on Ichiro for ONLY hitting singles. People were saying that he had no patience and tried to get a hit first and get on base second. The major complaint was he wasn't making the pitcher throw enough pitches up there. They do have some what of a point considering he only has 34 walks for a lead off hitter, but with an OBP of .403 you really can't complain all that much.

Although what he does when he is on base isn't always as wise as you might first expect. He has stolen a 149 bases since 2002, but has been thrown out a whopping 46 TIMES! Meaning 30.8% of the time he is making an out while trying to swipe a bag. That's horrible. It's not like he's being thrown out because of lack of speed either.

I'd pick him as my leadoff man even if he is flawed in some areas of the game. What he lacks on the basepaths and patience he makes up for in Defense and with his cannon of an arm. It doesn't hurt that he is also a good draw.



(edited by Tony Stewart on 17.8.04 0644)
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.24
Never post while sleep deprived. Sorry. What I was trying to get at is this, while it is a tremendous feat to get those many hits, its basically falling on deaf ears nationwide. Nobody is really coming out and making a big deal about it. Sorta the tree falling in the forrest and nobody around to hear it.

Didnt mean to put his abilities down, was just saying that while he is hitting and getting on base, it isnt doing any good.



Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.

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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.05
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    What I was trying to get at is this, while it is a tremendous feat to get those many hits, its basically falling on deaf ears nationwide. Nobody is really coming out and making a big deal about it. Sorta the tree falling in the forrest and nobody around to hear it.


People will start to notice if he either (a) approaches 250 hits or (b) gets up around .400. Of course, if he repeated his UNBELIEVABLE last six weeks over the next six weeks, he end up with 265 hits and an average of .384, so it appears .400 is out of the question unless he starts walking a lot more.


    Didnt mean to put his abilities down, was just saying that while he is hitting and getting on base, it isnt doing any good.


So what IS it doing if it's "not doing any good"? True, the Mariners aren't winning, but that's because Ichiro can't hit one through nine.

    Originally posted by Tony Stewart
    Although what he does when he is on base isn't always as wise as you might first expect. He has stolen a 149 bases since 2002, but has been thrown out a whopping 46 TIMES! Meaning 30.8% of the time he is making an out while trying to swipe a bag. That's horrible. It's not like he's being thrown out because of lack of speed either.


Way to spin those numbers. Here's a different look at it.


SB CS Pct.
2001 56 14 80.0
2002 31 15 67.3
2003 34 8 80.9
2004 28 9 75.7


So that's three good years and one bad year in which he had a knee injury that contributed to his poorer numbers.

(edited by JayJayDean on 17.8.04 0616)

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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by Tony Stewart
    Although what he does when he is on base isn't always as wise as you might first expect. He has stolen a 149 bases since 2002, but has been thrown out a whopping 46 TIMES! Meaning 30.8% of the time he is making an out while trying to swipe a bag. That's horrible. It's not like he's being thrown out because of lack of speed either.
Um, that's mildly exaggerated. Here are this year's leaders who are 1-4 in SB ahead of Ichiro:




SB CS Pct.
Carl Crawford 47 14 77.4
Scott Podsednik 43 9 82.7
Dave Roberts 33 1 97.0
Bobby Abreu 28 9 75.7




(edited by Grimis on 17.8.04 0925)


estragand
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Since: 18.6.02

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19
Guys can put up good statistcial seasons on shitty teams and still get nationwide attention. Didn't Andre Dawson win the MVP on a last-place club? Todd Helton received national acclaim while flirting with .400 on a .500 Rockies club in 2000. Tony Gwynn would annually garner press conference on some pretty medicore Padre teams. Baseball's a number freak's dream...if someone puts up the numbers, they'll get attention.



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Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
ESPN.com - MLB - Sea-ing stars Ichiro hit in head (sports.espn.go.com)

They say he's got a mild concussion and he's day to day. Hopefully it won't affect him like getting knocked in the noggin affected Sosa.








vsp
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Even if he is a Punch-and-Judy hitter, show me a team in baseball that would say "No, we WOULDN'T want a guy who gets 200+ hits a year, who's closing in on 200 hits this year in MID-AUGUST, who's got three Gold Gloves in the outfield, who can steal bases, and who has an MVP trophy and a batting title in his closet."

He'll never draw national attention like someone who hits the longball, of course, but those who follow baseball will take notice.




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Since: 21.4.02
From: West Palm Beach, FL

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.26
    Originally posted by estragand
    Guys can put up good statistcial seasons on shitty teams and still get nationwide attention. Didn't Andre Dawson win the MVP on a last-place club?


1987 Cubs if I recall correctly. He also hit 49 home-runs, which tied the major league lead that year with an unassuming rookie... Mark McGwire.





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Since: 2.1.03
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.86
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Never post while sleep deprived. Sorry. What I was trying to get at is this, while it is a tremendous feat to get those many hits, its basically falling on deaf ears nationwide. Nobody is really coming out and making a big deal about it. Sorta the tree falling in the forrest and nobody around to hear it.

    Didnt mean to put his abilities down, was just saying that while he is hitting and getting on base, it isnt doing any good.


You've got a point there. If he played on one of the NY or California teams he'd probably be getting more attention.



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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.07
Well, he is starting to get some pub for his ridiculous second-half.

Singles scene: Slap-hitter extraordinaire Ichiro sells himself short by not driving ball

and

Ichiro rides hit parade

(edited by JayJayDean on 20.8.04 0705)


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anibanging
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Since: 5.3.02

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Anybody remember the Chevy ad where they had a New York License plate, that read 114 BFD on it? Same applies here. 250 hits on a losing team is just a guy hitting a lot and it not helping a single bit.


So the BFD i think i got, but 114?
drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.49
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

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    Originally posted by anibanging
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
      Anybody remember the Chevy ad where they had a New York License plate, that read 114 BFD on it? Same applies here. 250 hits on a losing team is just a guy hitting a lot and it not helping a single bit.


    So the BFD i think i got, but 114?


I think it's about the Mariners breaking the single-season wins record and doing fuck-all in the playoffs. I never saw the ad, so I have no idea when it happened.



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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
    Originally posted by drjayphd
      Originally posted by anibanging
      So the BFD i think i got, but 114?

    I think it's about the Mariners breaking the single-season wins record and doing fuck-all in the playoffs. I never saw the ad, so I have no idea when it happened.


Then it should have said 116 BFD. The Yankees won 114 games in 1998 AND won the World Series, maybe it relates to that. (Or maybe it was just a coincidence?)

(edited by JayJayDean on 25.8.04 0618)


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If two years out of seven at .300 or higher is consistently hitting above .300, then I'm a consistent 200 bowler. He's a .280 career hitter. Not bad, but that's also not near the level that .300 implies. (and he's actually only hit above .
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