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21.12.14 1932
The W - Current Events & Politics - I love the smell of napalm in Iraq
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Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2926 days
Last activity: 2926 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
It seems that chemical weapons were used during the Iraq invasion. Click Here (news.independent.co.uk)

American pilots dropped the controversial incendiary agent napalm on Iraqi troops during the advance on Baghdad. The attacks caused massive fireballs that obliterated several Iraqi positions.

The Pentagon denied using napalm at the time, but Marine pilots and their commanders have confirmed that they used an upgraded version of the weapon against dug-in positions. They said napalm, which has a distinctive smell, was used because of its psychological effect on an enemy.

A 1980 UN convention banned the use against civilian targets of napalm, a terrifying mixture of jet fuel and polystyrene that sticks to skin as it burns. The US, which did not sign the treaty, is one of the few countries that makes use of the weapon. It was employed notoriously against both civilian and military targets in the Vietnam war.


And in an astounding turn of events, it seems the Pentagon actually lied to reporters about it (shocking I know).

The Pentagon said it had not tried to deceive. It drew a distinction between traditional napalm, first invented in 1942, and the weapons dropped in Iraq, which it calls Mark 77 firebombs. They weigh 510lbs, and consist of 44lbs of polystyrene-like gel and 63 gallons of jet fuel.

Officials said that if journalists had asked about the firebombs their use would have been confirmed. A spokesman admitted they were "remarkably similar" to napalm but said they caused less environmental damage.


It's a good thing Saddam never used his invisible-or-buried-in-the-desert chemical weapons on US troops -- there would have been hell to pay!






They got a mule they call Sal, bulldozing up canal walls.
They're gonna tap that icecap too,
And when they do they're gonna make that green map blue.
And the weather is finally getting warm ...
Promote this thread!
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2597 days
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#2 Posted on
That's a pretty irresponsible title you used for this thread. Napalm is not considered a chemical weapon. While your argument may be sound inside of your writing. You really shouldn't mislead people into reading like that. It's dishonest.
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by kgriffey79
    That's a pretty irresponsible title you used for this thread. Napalm is not considered a chemical weapon. While your argument may be sound inside of your writing. You really shouldn't mislead people into reading like that. It's dishonest.


Yeah, so misleading and dishonest that Gavintzu should go work for the Bush administration...



"It's hard to be a prophet and still make a profit."
- Da Bush Babees

"Finally, a candidate who can explain the current administration's position on civil liberties in the original German."
- Bill Maher on Arnold Schwarzenneger
Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2926 days
Last activity: 2926 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
kgriffey79 sez:

    Napalm is not considered a chemical weapon.

Napalm is a mixture of gasoline and polystyrene. Why should napalm not be considered a chemical weapon? Because the Pentagon says so?

Hmmm, let's see what Google has for us. Click Here (opcw.org)

A United Nations report from 1969 defines chemical warfare agents as " ... chemical substances, whether gaseous, liquid or solid, which might be employed because of their direct toxic effects on man, animals and plants ... ".

The Chemical Weapons Convention defines chemical weapons as including not only toxic chemicals but also ammunition and equipment for their dispersal. Toxic chemicals are stated to be " ... any chemical which, through its chemical effect on living processes, may cause death, temporary loss of performance, or permanent injury to people and animals". Plants are not mentioned in this context.

Incendiary agents such as napalm and phosphorus are not considered to be CW agents since they achieve their effect mainly through thermal energy.


Well I'll be damned. A weapon made up of benzene, polystyrene, and gasoline isn't considered a chemical weapon by the international community. I apologize for my highly misleading title




(edited by Gavintzu on 10.8.03 1119)


They got a mule they call Sal, bulldozing up canal walls.
They're gonna tap that icecap too,
And when they do they're gonna make that green map blue.
And the weather is finally getting warm ...
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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Y!:
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65

    Originally posted by Gavintzu
    I apologize for my highly misleading title
I have fixed it for you.



CRZ™
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 142 days
Last activity: 142 days
#6 Posted on
It seems like a lot of people don't know the difference between Napalm and a Mark 77 Firebomb. It also seems clear to me that a Marine saying they "napalmed" an Iraqi position is like me saying I "Xeroxed" a paper on a Lexmark W820 printer. We don't have Xerox machines at work but I can still "Xerox" a paper. The marines didn't drop napalm, the dropped Mark 77 firebombs.

...napalm attack on 21 March on an Iraqi observation post at Safwan Hill, close to the Kuwaiti border, wrote the following day: "Safwan Hill went up in a huge fireball and the observation post was obliterated.
I bet that whole hill smelled like ... Victory.



'But if one is struck by me only a little, that is far different, the stroke is a sharp thing and suddenly lays him lifeless, and that man's wife goes with cheeks torn in lamentation, and his children are fatherless, while he, staining the soil with his red blood, rots away, and there are more birds than women swarming about him.' Diomedes, The Iliad of Homer

Maiden RULES!!!
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1329 days
Last activity: 1125 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
By the way, anybody who expected us to waltz in and find stuff within two weeks really needs to Read This.



"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.
-- Sir Alex Fraser Tytler
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 104 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#8 Posted on
There may well be weapons buried into the ground. But I fail to see how buried weapons are a threat to our national security. And I certainly don't care much about what environmental effects that any buried weapons may have on Iraq.

And while what we used wasn't technically "Napalm", it does DO the same thing. It's considered nasty business, and frowned upon by many in the world. Myself, I wouldn't care, death is death, injuries are injuries, and once you reach the point of war, it's all about killing more of them than they do of you. But that's why you need to make sure the war is justified and necessary. I've never been convinced here.

(edited by ges7184 on 12.8.03 1004)


Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

Since last post: 2597 days
Last activity: 2483 days
#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by Gavintzu
    Why should napalm not be considered a chemical weapon? Because the Pentagon says so?


It may be a dead issue, but I just wanted to throw this out there.


Chemical weapons, as defined by the 1969 United Nations report entitled "Chemical and Bacteriological Weapons, and the Effect of Their Possible Use," are chemical agents of warfare taken to be chemical substances, whether gaseous, liquid, or solid, which might be employed because of their direct toxic effect on man, animals, and plants. The NATO definition of a chemical agent is: "A chemical substance which is intended for use in military operations to kill, seriously injure or incapacitate people because of its physiological effects. Excluded from this definition are riot control agents, herbicides, smoke and flame.
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 2 days
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#10 Posted on
    Originally posted by Grimis
    By the way, anybody who expected us to waltz in and find stuff within two weeks really needs to Read This.


Funny, that's what people were saying about the UN inspectors before the war, but for some reason, it wasn't a good enough reason then...

The article is comparing apples and oranges - its one thing to stumble across weapons you you had no idea were there. It's another thing to spend months talking about WMDs, give a PowerPoint presentation to the UN with satellite photos, base a war off this information, take over the country - and after months of military occupation not find anything at all. All while American troops are being killed on an almost daily basis.

Not to mention its a little disheartening not knowing where weapons are buried in our own frickin' country....

Edit: Spelling.

(edited by Leroy on 14.8.03 1159)


"It's hard to be a prophet and still make a profit."
- Da Bush Babees

"Finally, a candidate who can explain the current administration's position on civil liberties in the original German."
- Bill Maher on Arnold Schwarzenneger

"I am a follower of American politics..."
- President George W. Bush, Aug 2003
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1329 days
Last activity: 1125 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Leroy
    Funny, that's what people were saying about the UN inspectors before the war, but for some reason, it wasn't a good enough reason then

Mainly becasue we knew they had them and nobody seemed to be to keen on finding them.

(Incidentally, I didn't buy for a second Powell's ascertation that we knew exactly where they were...)



"Each time I've met Huffington, I wondered if she was not somehow the long-lost daughter of Madame Nicolai Ceaucescu, or a genetic cross between Martha Stewart and Count Dracula. Had this Greek-born harpy lived in medieval times, she would have been sewn up in a bag with a rooster and two snakes and thrown into the nearest river."
-- Eric Margolis, Toronto Star
godking
Chourico








Since: 20.10.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 3965 days
Last activity: 3910 days
#12 Posted on
Mainly becasue we knew they had them

Funny how every single Iraqi leader and scientist in custody seems to be saying different.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1329 days
Last activity: 1125 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by godking
    Funny how every single Iraqi...
Well god knows we should trust them.



"Each time I've met Huffington, I wondered if she was not somehow the long-lost daughter of Madame Nicolai Ceaucescu, or a genetic cross between Martha Stewart and Count Dracula. Had this Greek-born harpy lived in medieval times, she would have been sewn up in a bag with a rooster and two snakes and thrown into the nearest river."
-- Eric Margolis, Toronto Star
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3933 days
Last activity: 3875 days
#14 Posted on
They are damned fine weapons if you can dig them up and fire them within 45 minutes* of the order being given.



*according to our beloved leader.



...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
godking
Chourico








Since: 20.10.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 3965 days
Last activity: 3910 days
#15 Posted on
Well god knows we should trust them.

They're in custody. A lot of them have already cut deals (like the fellow who pointed us to that whole lone centrifuge you were so terrified of, and who incidentally has said repeatedly that Iraq gots nothin' in the way of WMD). Saddam is possibly dead - his sons definitely are, and frankly the big S is never going to be in power again anyway. More than one Iraqi scientist has offered to be interviewed outside of Iraq (IE, be "interviewed" in the United States and thus emigrate). These are people with no reason to lie, not one, and they're the ones telling you there are no WMDs.
ThreepMe
Morcilla








Since: 15.2.02
From: Dallas

Since last post: 3761 days
Last activity: 3419 days
#16 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis

      Originally posted by godking
      Funny how every single Iraqi...
    Well god knows we should trust them.


Great way to generalize an entire country of people as liars.

But then again, it's been irrational, predjudiced generalizations that has lead people to war for over 5000 years.



I would like to congatulate Al Snow on his contact with La-Z-Boy. Because we all know Al doesn't sell chairs. - Mick Foley




Make sure to check out ThreepMe's Website of Fun
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1329 days
Last activity: 1125 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by ThreepMe
    Great way to generalize an entire country of people as liars.

ACtually, that was a longstanding goof of that being cut off before the rest of the quote...



"Each time I've met Huffington, I wondered if she was not somehow the long-lost daughter of Madame Nicolai Ceaucescu, or a genetic cross between Martha Stewart and Count Dracula. Had this Greek-born harpy lived in medieval times, she would have been sewn up in a bag with a rooster and two snakes and thrown into the nearest river."
-- Eric Margolis, Toronto Star
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...to root out stuff like this before it happens. Of course, some argue that Iraq has little to do with prosecuting the war on terror, but this would beg to differ...
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