After reading negative comments about RAW from certain recappers, I'm wondering if they were watching the show I was watching. I liked the posedown. I really have liked the buildup between HHH/Steiner. I think that the crowd tonight was behind it as well. There were a lot of great moments tonight, starting off with the MONSTER beatdown of the Dudleys, reminding me of the time when HBK/Diesel/UT got the beatdowns of their lives in 1995. There was a super solid match between Goldust/Booker and Regal/Storm. There was more interplay between Jericho and HBK (hopefully leading to a match in the near future). Randy Orton returned with 93% mobility. The super hot crowd during the solid main event. All of this made me a happy viewer and kept me happy. I'm looking forward to the PPV. Anyone else feel the same way?
"We will meet again, in another life, when we are both cats."
I liked all of the show but the posedown. It just showed what is wrong with the WWE management's thought process on so many levels. Not to mention the homoerotic overtones in the whole thing.
I hope Heyman writes a segment on Smackdown to have Angle rip on that segment. This is WRESTLING not BODYBUILDING. WWE not the WBF. The World Champion should be the best pro-wrestler, not the guy with the best physique like they tried to pass it off tonight.
The Arm Wrestling thing was alright but saying, I'm gonna kick your ass tonight by ... OUT POSING YOU is just neither a tough nor manly buildup.
The opening segment dragged to me. I liked the idea but the execution was off but it's Batista and 3 Minute Warning, so what can we expect?
On the whole, it was a solid show with the injection of Orton being REALLY fresh. The kid is going to be a star.
Better have a posedown than a random tag team match pitting HHH and Steiner against one another week after week. They do their best to keep it 'fresh' and make the actual match mean something.
Also, they are defining the characters here. HHH has always had the "best body" in the federation (from the bodybuilders p.o.v.) and now there is this guy who beats him in all the disciplines..making HHH turn to old school heel tactics and having Steiner be the super babyface by fighting them off. Simple entertainment..not unlike Kurt Angle sitting on his hands and knees in the ring asking another man to grab him from behind to prove he is the superior wrestler. Now speak of gay overtones!!!
Well, that makes one of us. Tonight's Raw wasn't how anybody wanted 2003 to start. Let's take a look at why.
THE GOOD -We're Up To 93% Mobility: Randy Orton's return promo was gold and he looks ready to be the heel that Raw really needs. And with 93% mobility, it's looking like he'll be ready for the Royal Rumble. Orton's act is just awesome and it's looking like he'll be Raw's answer to Matt Hardy Version 1.
And it pretty much goes downhill from there.
THE BAD -Opening Squash: This was a good idea on paper. Squash the Dudleys to get revenge for last week. Nothing wrong with that. But the segment just went on...and on...and on...AND ON! It was like the squash that wouldn't end! And it even went on after the commercial break with Regal and Storm! This is the sort of thing that should have been kept to 5 or 10 minutes.
-The WBF Lives!: The posedown was another segment that just wouldn't end! And GOOD GOD! Did Triple H get into Steiner's secret stash?! You CAN'T tell me that's a natural physique! I now withdraw Triple H's "NecropHHHiliac" moniker in exchange for the much more apropos "Triple HGH". Congratulations, Triple HGH! Anyway, this segment just kept GOING with no end in sight. Oh, and Steiner proved himself to be about as smart as his brother when he accepted that push-up challenge. The first confrontation between these two was awesome, but it's just gotten worse every week.
-Eh, That Black Guy and the Gold Freak Weren't Over Anyway: After a long title chase that had fans jumping on their side, the long-deserved Bookerdust lasted...a whole 3 weeks. Whoopie. Yeah, they'll probably get the belts back at the Royal Rumble, but a short title reign like this just frustrates fans like me. When Charles Robinson got knocked out and a DQ wasn't called, I just groaned because you KNEW Regal and Storm were winning the belts.
THE "EH..." (New feature for segments that were just blah, but not actively good or bad) -The Women's Match: They REALLY need something to spice up this division. I love Trish and Victoria to death, but this is just SO old.
-Test/Nowinski: Test and Chris Harvard didn't stink up the joint, but they didn't blow me away, either. I like how they're toning down D-Lo's racism angle somewhat and his new partnership with Mr. Harvard could be very entertaining.
Bad way to start 2003 for WWE. Let's hope Smackdown saves us again!
Does THIS look like the face of a man with Testicles?
I agree with dMp's post. Steiner is making HHH freak out b/c he seems to be better than him in every way. It's helping HHH get over much better than he does in the past. It's nice to actually get something new and different. At least they obeyed the Rules of Wrestling by having Steiner get beat down at the end.
I don't agree with people that say the squash was too long. When was the last time you saw a solid, total, and complete shitkicking like that? Plus with any Dudley beatdown you get to see D-Von selling it old school style with all the twitching. That never gets old. The figure 4/top rope splash combo was pure beauty.
It is essential for the title reign of Goldie/Booker to be over so Booker can start his singles push towards WM. Hopefully Goldie won't be shunted back that far either.
When does Jazz come back?
"We will meet again, in another life, when we are both cats."
I am just so happy that for once I accurately called something Click Here I figured on the arm wrestling, but even I was surprised they busted out the posedown. Maybe I should try predicting more entertaining things and see if they come true.
Oh, I did enjoy the extended Dudley beating though. It had a fun nWo/Horsement style asskicking flavor to it.
It wasn't that it was a long squash but the quality of the squash. There were these dead pauses where 3MW and Batista looked clueless as to what to do next.
How is a Posedown new and different? Rude/Warrior anyone? It was lame then, it was lame now. They're supposed to be bad asses, that want to kick each other's ass but they're posing??? POSING? Again, POSING?! If Steiner is SUCH a bad ass then why with HHH inches away from him doesn't he just beat him up? It just made Steiner look like less of a force, IMO.
And like I mentioned in another thread, it was disturbing to see that HHH has juiced on another 15-20 pounds which HE REALLY doesn't need.
Well, let's see. HHH was posing so as to set Steiner up for the beatdown. Steiner was posing so as to beat HHH at his own game, thus embarassing him even more. That would be why they're posing instead of fighting. HHH is afraid he won't be able to beat Steiner, hence he won't fight him unless absolutely necessary. Steiner has no doubt that he can beat HHH, so why not wait and do it when it counts at the Rumble while embarassing HHH in the meantime? As the Michaels/Jericho interview showed, it's all about egos and not just who can kick who's ass but who can one up the other. I guess basic psychology is just lost one some people...
Great, insult people who don't agree with your opinion. Way to take the low road, buddy.
The basic psychology would have made sense if HHH and Steiner didn't spend a large portion of the pre-posedown show talking about kicking each other's asses. Even if the psychology was perfect, watching two juiced up guys oil up and pose is not my idea of quality wrestling entertainment.
You know, I hated RAW, but I did get a kick out of how Triple H tried *so hard* to look like a legit bodybuilder, whereas Steiner just sorta goofed aruond. Knowing H's love for the Mr. Olympia competition, he was probably thinking, "Wow, this is SO COOL!!11".
Meanwhile, millions of wrestling fans are all "What the hell? Why don't they just punch each other or something, man?"
And yes, Jericho now has yet another nickname, and an appropriate one. All hail the Highlight of the Night!
Originally posted by VanillaSkyAfter reading negative comments about RAW from certain recappers, I'm wondering if they were watching the show I was watching. I liked the posedown. I really have liked the buildup between HHH/Steiner. I think that the crowd tonight was behind it as well. There were a lot of great moments tonight, starting off with the MONSTER beatdown of the Dudleys, reminding me of the time when HBK/Diesel/UT got the beatdowns of their lives in 1995. There was a super solid match between Goldust/Booker and Regal/Storm. There was more interplay between Jericho and HBK (hopefully leading to a match in the near future). Randy Orton returned with 93% mobility. The super hot crowd during the solid main event. All of this made me a happy viewer and kept me happy. I'm looking forward to the PPV. Anyone else feel the same way?
You know, Vanilla? I think you and I must be the only two on the planet that liked the show. I'm even getting tired of reading that people are sick of watching the "divas" wrestle. These are the same people that complained that the "divas" were always doing bra & panties, mud wrestling, jello, etc matches. I think its great to see them go out there and actually WRESTLE!! (another thing everyone seems to complain that there's not enough of).
The other thing that has got me just going bonkers, and it was mentioned in another post, but it just seems absurd that the same people that were screaming that they weren't using talent such as Storm, are now screaming because they gave them the titles....odd....very, odd.
So, what do you say, Vanilla? You and me can start the revolution. We can (apparently) be the only two people on the planet to enjoy Raw!
"If I were you, I'd put that beer down!" "If you were me, you'd be drunk. Why the hell should I listen to a drunk?"
Originally posted by Ana NgYou know, I hated RAW, but I did get a kick out of how Triple H tried *so hard* to look like a legit bodybuilder, whereas Steiner just sorta goofed aruond. Knowing H's love for the Mr. Olympia competition, he was probably thinking, "Wow, this is SO COOL!!11".
I agree with you. I would normally hate a posedown but, much like the arm wrestling on the last Raw, I actually enjoyed the way HHH and Steiner handled the situation. I liked the part where HHH was posing and peaked over his shoulder at Steiner, then stopped his posing to wide eyedly (is that even a word?) lean in to get a closer look at Steiner.
As for the rest of Raw, I liked the HBK/RVD/Kane vs. Jericho/Christian/Orton stuff but, I thought the rest of the show was bland. I agree with fuelinjected about the beatdown of the Dudleys. I like the idea but, the beatdown itself was kind of lethargic. I HATED the way they took the tag titles from Booker/Goldust and gave them to Storm/Regal. Hell, even the Raw Retro was bad (Sable and Mero?)
Hey I've been saying I like Raw for months now. I liked this show, I found some stuff to be so over the top funny, a couple of decent matches, a few surprises. One maybe 2 segments I didn't like the rest was fine to really good. I might be insane but again much more entertaining 2 hours then Smackdown.
-3MW/Batista vs. Bubba/Dvon- Not a good way to start the Raw, the problem wasn't the length or what happened but how horrible the 3MW/Batista execution was. On 3 or 4 occasions they paused with indecision in what to do next. Just really bad and noticeable. How much longer is 3MW going to get the benefit of the doubt. 75% of there matches there are obvious screwups from being out of place, to missing your spot, to whatever. This is the most obvious example of continuing to prove you are not ready for prime time.
-Victoria/Molly vs. Trish/Jackie- Certainly a step up from the first match. It was a good decent little match. Nothing spectacular but a nice effort by all. Good heel double-teaming by the heels (duh). HOT TAG! Trish/Victoria chopathon sounded great lol. And a heel win with damn interference with Stevie and Victoria holding the Tights-Tights-Tights. They may be reintroducing Molly to the Raw crowd so they might be doing something with her soon hopefully.
-HBK/Y2J/Orton- The beginning of the interview with Jericho and then HBK I was about to talk negatively but Y2J reaction to something, made him and made the interview. When HBK was talking about how Y2J needs to be the #1 guy in the Royal Rumble match, I thought Jericho was going to go one of 2 ways either chicken out and say "no way" or take the bait. But his response was as good as I could imagine. He pretty much said "Screw you, I don't need to prove myself to you I beat 2 guys in one night to win the title that you never beaten in your life, I don't need to prove anything". I'm glad they went this way for the first time it seemed like they are pushing his past accomplishments and not acting like he's some guy with potential or "almost there"... Then it just gets better with Orton coming out, his comeback is more impressive. Great interview segment.
-Storm/Regal vs. BookDust- The match was one of the best Storm/ Regal matches to date, so that's a good thing. Ouch on that punt by Regal on Robinsons face. Okay the results were surprising and really unexpected (don't know if that's good or bad) but the match was good, I just don't know about building BookDust so well just to have them lose a couple of Raw's later but I'll keep a wait and see attitude on this, it could be good.
-Test v. Nowinski- The only other segment (including the first one) that I was iffy on. They only had 2 minutes and a bunch of chasing D'lo and interference, it wasn't that good but it looks like they are setting a Test/D'lo I guess Test/Stevie Richards feud is over. As for Jazz coming back. Maybe with D'lo.
-HHH/Steiner posedown- I really think how you went into it will be your reaction to this segment. I went into laughing my ass off. (I'll explain why on "other stuff").. While in the ring H picks 6 random guys who know bodybuilding, the guys look like they are from the ponytail club. Yup those guys know bodybuilding, how can he tell, they all have ponytails. Then H gave them simple Steiner black letters on white signs, then give them cool HHH symbol sign to raise if they want to vote for "The man with the world champion physique". (Hey guys don't throw it away we need it to give it to other plants in the crowd for the weeks to come, lol j/k maybe).Then out comes Steiner and the homoerotic level steps up with them flexing in front of 6 guys sitting on chairs smiling happily.
HHH & Steiner battling for the spotlight and H noticing in awe that Steiner is HUGE then gathers himself and poses to the judges. Make things better the adventure of Steiner yelling in a mic, he gets all the words out but not in the right order sometimes lol. JR had to correct him once and H had a look of "huh" another time, even without warning snaps at Coach for no apparent reason... Some might not understand why Steiner went and did the pushup competition and the posedown. Then you don't know the mind of these insane bodybuilders. There body is the extension of their entire existence. You could get away insulting there wife, parents or call him a necro but if you dare accuse him of having over 5% body fat or he can't do more pushups then you then IT'S ON! This is a real funny yet sad look of the mindset of juiced up freaks. And I'm finding it very entertaining, and I can't believe I am *lol*
-RVD/Kane vs. Jericho/Christian- I thought it was a good match. Seemed a little rush but everyone interplayed well including Orton and Michaels. Everyone seemed to be really on this night and worked well even if it was only for 7 minutes.
-other stuff - The homoerotic nature of Flair checking out HHH oiling himself up, flexing in the mirror and reassuring him that "He's the man, he's spectacular" was too surreal. JR and Lawler putting away the puppy talk for one week and replaced it with "Oh my god JR look at his peaks, his pecks are HUGE I can't wait to see them, you want those peaks don't you"... And my personal favourite, how proud they are in being on a cover of a muscle magazine that I doubt 90% of the wrestling audience ever heard of and 97% of the general public doesn't know it existing. But for these guys it's like the pinnacle it's the like Time Magazine, WOW look at me I'm on the cover of MuscleFlex International. I'd hate to break it to them that Trish done about two dozen of those muscle mag covers in just a couple of year after she left college *lol*
Line of the night: Lawler (yes Lawler) after Test hit his finisher on Nowinski "Oh no Nowinski landed on his brain"
(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 7.1.03 0515) Oh they have the internet on computers now!
I see the announcers failed to mention the history between Batista and D-Von. Not only that there was no tension between 3MW and Batista, because Batista walked out on them a month earlier. Continuity's a bitch.
I liked the Jericho/Michaels/RNN segment before the run-ins.
I thought Raven was supposed to be back on RAW.
I see BookerDust getting the tag titles back from Regal/Storm at the Royal Rumble.
I would have switched the tag titles at the Rumble and then built up the Storm/Regal vs. Dudleys blowoff for Mania, but I understand why they did it(they wanted a tag title match for the PPV but wanted Booker free for the Rumble itself).
The Michaels vs. Jericho stuff has been great.
Randy Orton rules.
D-Lo's back on Raw. (Someone remind the writing team that Raven's SUPPOSED to be back on Raw too.)
That posedown went juuuuust a bit too long, as did the opening squash.
Evil Vince returns next week. Rejoice.
All I can say is, all of the people that hate Raw week after week but keep watching Raw because dammit, THIS could be the week where they turn things around, but OH, it sucks THIS week TOO, oh well, maybe NEXT week will be better, etc., etc., deserve what they get. It's sorta like a girl who says "My boyfriend won't hit me again, he's REALLY sorry this time!" after the 32nd time he's gotten drunk and hit her and then apologized afterwards.
The only things that I could bring myself to enjoy about this week's Raw was Victoria, Randy Orton's promo and his subsequent fleeing from the ring when Kane ran out(watch it again, it's hilarious), and the promise of Vince coming back next week.
Other than that, I couldn't even watch, and didn't. I flipped channels so many times the battery on the remote died.
The posedown was excruciatingly long. I wanted to yell 'Get to the point already.'
I miss Monday Night Football.
From the infamous Wrestleline SS interview:
DTD: If you were to make changes in WCW, if you were in charge and not Ric Flair, what would they be?
SS: I'd get rid of all the old guys, and push the talent that has waited to get the push. The things they are doing, it's back in the 1980s. It's just bad, man. Flair doesn't even deserve to be on the show. You've got to get rid of all the old guys. Like what Vince did, they started pushing guys. Nobody knew who The Rock was 2 years ago. He made The Rock. Now The Rock just did Saturday Night Live. You've got to start with the young talent, talent people can relate to. Who are we trying to relate to if we've got a 50 year old man out there? Are we trying to relate, so a 50 year people and above will go out and buy a f*cking little toy? That ain't gonna happen. It's a f*cking joke.
The beginning beatdown was promising. The tag team loss by Bookerdust was stupid. Didn't Regal/Storm just lose to Lawler/Ross last show? Also I thought Regal's brass knux gimmick was old by last year's Wrestlemania. The Jericho/HBK confrontation was promising, but they didn't need Randy Orton thrown in.
At 10 PM I switched to Real World Challange on MTV. I flipped back during commercials for the bodybuilding crap. I didn't like it back in 89 when it was Rude/Orndorf either. I spent 90% of the time on MTV which had better feuds. At least RVD got a spot in the night's main event.
Let's see, arm-wrestling, then WBF posedown. Next week on RAW, Steiner and Trip play RAW Bowl with XFL rules. Wasn't 3MW getting close to a break-up, and didn't Batista walk out on them. Oh wait, the continuity person was let go, so that doesn't matter. For some reason I can't get into this RVD/Kane tag team. They really need to turn one of them, thus easing the face log jam and moving someone up on the heel side. Two straight RAW's (not counting clip shows) without Jeff Hardy, so at least they appear to be coming to their senses on that one. Why have Raven win a match where he can appear on RAW, then not have him appear on RAW? Oh wait, continuity person let go, never mind. RAW at a casino next week, any way they break out the wheel?
Please help control the McMahon population. Have your Triple H's spade or neutered.
Well, you guys beat me to a Raw one, so I figure I should do this instead. SmackDown Mid-Term Report Akio: C -- Could be using him far better than fodder for others. Billy Gunn: D -- Still on my TV, sadly. I guess I could deal with him being jobbed out....