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The W - Pro Wrestling - I just don't get it, or why are people so down on Wrestlemania?
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Eradicator
Kolbasz








Since: 4.1.02
From: Chicago

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 10 days
#1 Posted on
So everyone is in a huff that enough builup hasn't been given for Wrestlemania this year. But hasn't it been like that for the last several years? Heck, last year Rock had only been champ a month when he faced Austin. At least Jericho, despite looking weak in some people's eyes (even though that's his character), has been champ for about four months. I think that always makes a title match seem more special.

The last time I remember a Wrestlemania feeling really "special" on the whole was before there were PPVs every month and tons of wrestling on TV every week. And besides, this WM has plenty of matches with that special feel. Some of us may not be psyched for it, but I know a lot of people are really looking forward to Rock/Hogan, especially casual fans. And Jericho/HHH is the title match that all the net fans seemed to want. And as far as there being matches that seem pointless and thrown together- it's been like that *every* year. There are always plenty of filler matches at every WM. So who cares if the filler matches are announced three weeks before the card, or one? Here are some examples of matches from some past WMs that had no real buildup, or just didn't feel "special":

WM X7-
Test vs. Eddie
RTC vs. Tazz and the APA
Jericho vs. Regal (had buildup but not much heat)

WM 2000-
Big Bossman and Bull Buchanan vs. D'Lo and Godfather
T&A vs. Head Cheese
Terri vs. Kat
Kane & Rikishi vs. X-Pac & Road Dogg

WM XV-
Harcore Holly vs. Billy Gunn vs. Al Snow
Undertaker vs. Big Bossman
Road Dogg vs. Val Venis vs. Goldust vs. Ken Shamrock
Owen Hart and JJ vs. Test and D' Lo
Sable vs. Torie

WM 13-
Four corner tag elimination match
Rocky vs. Sultan
Hart and Bulldog vs. Mankind and Vader
Undertaker vs. Sid

If you skip back further it gets worse actually:

WM VI-
The Model vs. Koko B. Ware!!!!!
Demolition vs. Andre/Haku (there was buildup but it had been done so many times and Andre was almost criple)
Earthquake vs. Hercules!!!
Hart Foundation vs. Bolshiveks
Barbarian vs. Tito Santana!!!
Jim Duggan vs. Dino Bravo!!!
Rick Rude vs. Jimmy Snuka

I could go on, but it would take forever. Granted some of these did have some buidup, but do any of them really stick out as 'special' WM matches? Plus, the main event at WM IX, the one people say is the greatest ever, didn't really have buildup or feel special because we didn't know who would be in the fianl match of the card goin in. I think we are just remembering back to the days with four PPVs a year and hardly any good matches on free TV. We were starved for stuff then, so stuff like the Model vs. The Birdman actually felt special to us (and most of us were pretty young then).

Now look at the card again, and I think it looks a lot better than some of those late 80s/early 90s WMs. Those cards were notorious for having matches between random mid-carders. This year may not be as good as last year, but you can't expect them to always top the previous year (and that may be another reason peopel are unhappy- they like last year so much anything will be a let down). But this is probably all a waste because people have created self-fulfilling prophicies in their heads- they are expecting to hate it, so they will no matter what.

Rock vs. Hogan
HHH vs. Jericho (with Stephanie)
Hall vs. Austin
RVD vs. Regal
Booker vs. Edge
Kane vs. Angle

That's a lot of matches right there that I am looking forward to. And the other stuff doesn't look too bad either. At least on paper it looks like I will get my moneys worth. All I have to do is sit back, enjoy and see if it meets my expectation (something I won't do till after the night is over).




"...the people ran, they ran all right, they ran right to the toilet, pulled their pants down, took one big Hulk-a-CRAP every time you opened your mouth!"
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Travis
Boerewors








Since: 7.3.02
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 4569 days
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#2 Posted on
"WM VI-
The Model vs. Koko B. Ware!!!!! "
Fuck buildup, I bet this was a good match. Martel and Koko in their respective primes could definitely go. Look at Martel's AWA and WCW stuff. The problem is all we remember is the gimmick...

"Earthquake vs. Hercules!!!"
Hercules was the big jobber they used to get monster heels/faces over. At the time there weren't 2 highly rated national TV shows, so they needed a stage to establish Earthquake as a monster. When he squashed a guy as huge (and no-sell-tastic) as Hercules the marks were probably impressed.

"Rick Rude vs. Jimmy Snuka"
Again, it gets back to two guys who could put on a good match. It really depends which Snuka showed up, but this match up on paper would be like ***. I have to re-watch it, yeah, but two of the better workers in the promotion having a match isn't such a bad thing.

Too bad the best worker in the WWF is on the shelf.

You heard me.



"People building their own cages rage at thoughts of liberation."- 15
dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3231 days
Last activity: 2936 days
#3 Posted on
I don't think people are down on WM. The WWF has proven that they can do PPV right. Mainly because PPVs are all about wrestling, not Sports Entertainment. I think people are down in the product that they see on Monday and Thursday nights.

The product is so piss poor and trying to be so cute, that it is falling on it's face. I can give you an example, why in the hell do they need to bring the Steph/HHH thing into the title match? It should be only HHH/Y2J, the man who came back from injury versus the man who injured him. Throw in the fact that Y2J had beaten HHH for the belt in the past already, and you have a great fued for WM. But Nooooooo, The WWF has to get Steph/HHH/Lucy/lotion/Corvette/etc. involved.

Last night, the board gives control to Vince until after WM. What is 6 days going to change? Why give the company to the man that has "Injected poison into the WWF?" Why give power to the man that had a match again his son at WM17, while you are taking away power from a man that stood up for his son?

Why have Christian turn on DDP? Wasn't he the ONLY person trying to help Christian? Wasn't Christian totally alone and depressed before DDP came along?

Since Booker T has had 2 commercials already, why is he all bent out of shape at Edge? Why do they need this stupid angle to have a match? Why not just have Edge make a smart alecky remark to Booker, Booker beat him down, Edge get revenge, then have a match at WM?

I could go on and on. But the WWF product is just silly right now. Do not get me wrong, I still watch and enjoy the matches, but the storylines are terrible. That is what everyone is bitching about. It is kind of like watching a child who is totally smart but doing terrible in school because he will not apply himself. The WWF is not reaching it's potential, what it could be. And right now, we have no option.

Actually the last time there was a good buildup for WM was Austin/HBK. Remember that started way at the Royal Rumble with Tyson's appearance in the box. Last year started early with all the Rock/Austin stare downs threw out the year, but the month before WM, they difinitely turned the fued up a notch.

(edited by dskillz on 12.3.02 1255)
January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 17 hours
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#4 Posted on

    Originally posted by Travis


    Too bad the best worker in the WWF is on the shelf.

    You heard me.



Someday, Steve Blackman will be back. Don't fret.

Maybe...



These mini Reeses cup things are addictive...
evilwaldo
Lap cheong








Since: 7.2.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3439 days
Last activity: 3219 days
AIM:  
#5 Posted on
"WM XV-
Harcore Holly vs. Billy Gunn vs. Al Snow
Road Dogg vs. Val Venis vs. Goldust vs. Ken Shamrock

If I remember correctly there was a special feel here. Road Dogg was the hardcore title holder and Billy Gunn was the IC title holder and everyone expceted them to go into WM that way. However, the WWF threw us a curve and swapped titles which piqued everyones interest. I think that VV and Goldust also held the IC title in the weeks leading up to the match leading us to believe that all 4 contestants were on the same level.

But anyway, this year the matches don't seem special. Yeah they should be good matches but this is Wrestlemania. They should be great matches, blowoffs with the heels getting their due. Last night was anything HHH did about winning the WWF title? No, it was about getting the dog back. Who cares about the dog when in less than a week he has the opportunity to win back the WWF title? They have been building the divorce more than the actual match. Who cares about Stephanie? She should not be the focus here. She should be an aside.





You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of a sudden you look down and see a tortoise. It's crawling towards you. You reach down and flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over. But it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.
Eradicator
Kolbasz








Since: 4.1.02
From: Chicago

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 10 days
#6 Posted on
Yes, those older matches had some good workers, and could have been good, but in reality they were squash matches on the biggest event of the year- something the WWF doesn't do as much nowadays. Yes, they needed to get people like Earthquake over at WM, and that's my point, they don't have to do that anymore so we get better matches. I would rather see DDP vs. Christian ten times over Earthquake/Hercules in the midcard.

And my original intent was to show that those 'special' WMs of the past contained many matches that, going in, did not have buildup or a special big-time event feel. You can't say that people were psyched for Martel/Ware going in, can you? I was in grade school then, and I know I wasn't.

And just an interesting tidbit (at least to me): This is the first Wrestlemania in four years that the champion going in has been holding the belt from before the first of the year. That's pretty cool to me.



"...the people ran, they ran all right, they ran right to the toilet, pulled their pants down, took one big Hulk-a-CRAP every time you opened your mouth!"
The Vile One
Chourico








Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 4476 days
Last activity: 4353 days
#7 Posted on
As I remember last year, the Angle/Benoit feud/match was made up on the RAW before wrestlemania, but they continued to wrestle each other for a few months. Anyway on paper, the matches look good and are interesting, but judging by WWF's crappy weekly TV its seems at times like they don't care about getting more people to buy wrestlemania. It doesn't really help trying to alienate fans like that.

Oh and Steve Blackman sucks. The only reason he even remotely got a push was because he is buddies with Shane McMahon. And yes I hope CRZ heard that.




"It is a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing...such a little thing."
-Boromir
shotgun_russ
Linguica








Since: 28.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN

Since last post: 4414 days
Last activity: 4375 days
#8 Posted on

    Originally posted by dskillz
    I could go on and on. But the WWF product is just silly right now. Do not get me wrong, I still watch and enjoy the matches, but the storylines are terrible. That is what everyone is bitching about(edited by dskillz on 12.3.02 1255)


I hate to bring up the sports entertainment vs. wrestling issue, but if they aren't promoting matches that are going to be good from a wrestling perspective and they aren't promoting sports entertainment segments and storylines that are entertaining, then you end up with dog crap on the floor... literally.

Maybe I sound like a mark when I say this, but how about they give me a reason to hate somebody other than the fact that he's bitching about getting gypped out of a shampoo commercial? Ric Flair, Rock, Austin, Triple H... they all have reasons to hate their WM opponents (as over the top as some of them may be), but something just isn't clicking there with me.




=================================
Russ Ray
Managing Editor
www.shotgunreviews.com
---------------------------------
"Where the women are hot,
the men fight zombies,
and the monkeys live like kings."
=================================
dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3231 days
Last activity: 2936 days
#9 Posted on
Russ...alot of things are not clicking right now on ANY level. Wrestling or Sports Entertainment.



January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 2018 days
Last activity: 1952 days
#10 Posted on
The answer is simple: We're spoilt.

You heard me. We're spoilt. WWF TV over the past few weeks has by no means been great, but I can think of only one real factor that NEEDS to go-Stephanie. The rest is inoffensive, just not very exciting. Yet since WCW folded, we've felt the need to jump on anything even the slightest bit negative. Witness Scott Keith's weekly rants now-the tiniest things raise his ire, simply so he can have something to bitch at in his columns.

I'm not saying the WWF product is perfect right now-far from it, obviously. But at the end of the day we ARE going to get quality matches, even if the storylines aren't the greatest. Remember what we used to get (think Mania 15)-constant nonsensical DQ finishes (on PPV too), pathetic storylines (eg. Ministry), crap payoffs and generally bad matches. That used to look good back in the day, thanks to the rampant stupidity of WCW looking even WORSE. But now, with nothing to compare it to, we're not happy with anything less than a perfect WWF product. And at the end of the day, how many of us are REALLY going to stop watching? I know I prefer this to what we put up with through 1999...



Hey Yo.....................I'm DRUNK.
Tha Puerto Rican
Bauerwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: New York City, USA

Since last post: 4405 days
Last activity: 4002 days
AIM:  
#11 Posted on
You're SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO right. Wrestlemania X-8 could pull a Wrestlemania XV and not a X-Seven or 2000. Just pray to God that it doesn't pull a IX and stay AT LEAST at an VIII or an XI.



THa Puerto Rican

LWO 4-Life
shea
Bockwurst








Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 4031 days
Last activity: 3917 days
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    And at the end of the day, how many of us are REALLY going to stop watching?


Stop watching, maybe not. But stop PAYING to watch, definitely.

I don't know about you, but money's tight around my house right now. Why would I waste what little disposable income I have on an inferior product like WM X-8? I may be a wrestling fan, but I'm not stupid.
mskj
Summer sausage








Since: 10.1.02
From: Tennessee

Since last post: 999 days
Last activity: 758 days
#13 Posted on
I agree with most of what oldschoolhero has to say. I've said it before, that if WCW were still around putting on crap t.v. every week you would hear much less complaining about the WWF. There is just nothing to compare it to right now. Stephanie needs to go, but i also think it is about time to replace Ross. But i don't have a clue who they would do that with.

I know the WWF is the only wrestling show on in most areas. That is why some people watch it, complain about it, and then watch it again next week. I can understand that. But if you really want it to change, not watching would be the best way to get it to change. Think about it. If you watch what in your opinion is crap, and you continue to watch it, why would Vince change it for you? You are going to watch it no matter what, because it is the only wrestling show on. I know that has nothing to do with ppv's but WWF ppv's usually can have a sports entertainment build up, and then some great wrestling. As long as that continues people will be compelled to pay every so often on Sunday's. All this is just an opinion of course.



Ohio State is your Big Ten Champion. And they beat Michigan three times.
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