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The W - Current Events & Politics - I have a dare for you...
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OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#1 Posted on
...And this directed moreso to our conservatives, although it applys to everyone. Go see "Bowling For Columbine". I'd love to discuss this film with you, but I have no interest in discuss your pre-concieved notions about the movie.

First of all, let me stress to you that this is *not* a movie about gun control, and would probably add a lot more fuel to your fire stating that gun control wouldn't solve anything. The movie attempts to determine *why* there is so much gun violence in the United States, when the rest of the world has just as many guns as we do, but drastically lower gun homicide rates.

If any of you take me up on this, I thank you in advance.

And, for those of you who *aren't* the conservatives among us, you have no excuse for not seeing this movie. It's easily Moore's best work since "Roger and Me".



"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have always been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Think of it, always."
-------Gandhi
Promote this thread!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#2 Posted on
Ask me again when it is on video... I already decided to wait to see that one. There is too much else coming out that I want to see....




"Pool Boy"

Detroit Lions! 3-5!
I am proud to declare my team "Not the worst team in the NFL, not by a longshot!"
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 43 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    Ask me again when it is on video... I already decided to wait to see that one. There is too much else coming out that I want to see....


Actually, I'm with you on this one. I've an open enough mind to catch it on video...but...

On the other hand I despise Roger Moore enough that I don't want to spend $8 to see it in the theaters. So unless it's a "special effects extravaganza" that I absolutely need to see on the big screen...I'll be waiting for VHS.

I have a feeling that I'll want to discuss it, and in all fairness I'll need to watch it to do that properly.





7-1 Bring on the Lions!

StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#4 Posted on
See, its people like YOU that made them hire two new James Bonds in the past 20 years!
Nothing is wrong with Roger Moore!
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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Last activity: 1 day
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#5 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    Ask me again when it is on video... I already decided to wait to see that one. There is too much else coming out that I want to see....


Fair enough.



"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have always been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Think of it, always."
-------Gandhi
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by cranlsn

      Originally posted by Pool-Boy
      Ask me again when it is on video... I already decided to wait to see that one. There is too much else coming out that I want to see....


    Actually, I'm with you on this one. I've an open enough mind to catch it on video...but...

    On the other hand I despise Roger Moore enough that I don't want to spend $8 to see it in the theaters. So unless it's a "special effects extravaganza" that I absolutely need to see on the big screen...I'll be waiting for VHS.

    I have a feeling that I'll want to discuss it, and in all fairness I'll need to watch it to do that properly.




Roger Moore???

you mean MICHAEL Moore...

Roger Moore was James Bond...




Wrestling has been rhyming with ass. I miss shows and it makes me all shades of ambivalence. WWE is starting to suck again. The crops?
Jeezum Spice! Someone stole my crops. What in the ham fat is going on. That's just poo-doo!
That's just my 2.4856 Yen.
R-D-Z
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 43 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#7 Posted on
I know...I know...it was already caught before I came back to re-read this thread...

Not enough sleep + not enough caffeine = mixing up my Moore's.



7-1 Bring on the Lions!

Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1371 days
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#8 Posted on
No big whoop- Roger Moore was ass as James Bond anyway...
Give me GEORGE LAZENBY!!!




"Pool Boy"

Detroit Lions! 3-5!
I am proud to declare my team "Not the worst team in the NFL, not by a longshot!"
anibanging
Italian








Since: 5.3.02

Since last post: 2072 days
Last activity: 118 days
#9 Posted on
Here are my most immediate thoughts on the film:

1) The gun-related death numbers Moore quotes are somewhat misleading. The US is still pretty far ahead of the pack but not to as big an extent as it seemed. Canada for example was said to have something like 250 gun related deaths a year. But if you factor in the population difference that would be 2500. I don't remeber the exact numbers for other countries listed, but - aside from Japan which would still have less than 100 gun related deaths a year - the gun deaths:population ratio is not as severe a difference as it was made to be.

2) I don't get why Chuck Heston reacted so badly. Moore was pretty much backing up the NRAs claims that guns don't kill people, people do. But he missed his opportunity and came off looking bad. I also am not sure whether this was done before he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's or not, but given the way Moore dominated it was a little uncomfortable to watch.

3) The only reference to other countries having as many guns as Americans was Canada and this is not a good compatison. Of the 7 mil guns in 10 mil homes (according to whatever facts Moore used) they are predominatly hunting rifles and what not. Handguns are not common. Neither are assault rifles. Not to mention the much more stringent regulations and teh gun registy. So the notion that other countries know how to not kill people with guns fell pretty flat for me.

Putting that aside, it was an excellent film.
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#10 Posted on
I, of course, have not seen the film, but does it address the percentage of violent crimes committed with registered handguns and rifles vs. black-market weapons? Last I checked, the vast majority of crimes involving guns involved guns purchased "outside" the system...




cranlsn was right by God-

The Lions were the Packers' B$#CH!!!!!


"Pool-Boy"
anibanging
Italian








Since: 5.3.02

Since last post: 2072 days
Last activity: 118 days
#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    I, of course, have not seen the film, but does it address the percentage of violent crimes committed with registered handguns and rifles vs. black-market weapons? Last I checked, the vast majority of crimes involving guns involved guns purchased "outside" the system...


It doesn't give actual figures, although it does point out that some noteworthy gun violence (i.e columbine and a first grader shooting another first grader) was commited with legal guns.

It also incinuates, and briefly tells the story of a guy who got a hold of legal guns then sold them to Detroit gangs, that merely having such an abundance of guns in the country legally makes it easier for the criminals to get a hold of them through theft or illegal sales.
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 5 days
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#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by anibanging
    Here are my most immediate thoughts on the film:

    1) The gun-related death numbers Moore quotes are somewhat misleading. The US is still pretty far ahead of the pack but not to as big an extent as it seemed. Canada for example was said to have something like 250 gun related deaths a year. But if you factor in the population difference that would be 2500. I don't remeber the exact numbers for other countries listed, but - aside from Japan which would still have less than 100 gun related deaths a year - the gun deaths:population ratio is not as severe a difference as it was made to be.

    2) I don't get why Chuck Heston reacted so badly. Moore was pretty much backing up the NRAs claims that guns don't kill people, people do. But he missed his opportunity and came off looking bad. I also am not sure whether this was done before he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's or not, but given the way Moore dominated it was a little uncomfortable to watch.

    3) The only reference to other countries having as many guns as Americans was Canada and this is not a good compatison. Of the 7 mil guns in 10 mil homes (according to whatever facts Moore used) they are predominatly hunting rifles and what not. Handguns are not common. Neither are assault rifles. Not to mention the much more stringent regulations and teh gun registy. So the notion that other countries know how to not kill people with guns fell pretty flat for me.

    Putting that aside, it was an excellent film.



Heston obviously had Altzheimer's at the time of the shooting (no pun intended), but no one was aware yet. This film's been finished for close to a year, seeking a distributor.



"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have always been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end, they always fall. Think of it, always."
-------Gandhi
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
#13 Posted on
I think some of you are missing the point. The film was not really about gun control. It was about the "culture of fear" with in the United States. The NRA and Heston were focal points not because the are gun advocates, but because they are fanatical gun advocates, even beyond the sense of good taste (like having a NRA rally days after a school shooting - in the same town).

Guns are merely a way of addressing the issue. Moore, in my view, did not come across very anti-gun at all during the film.



"It's hard to be a prophet and still make a profit."
- Da Bush Babees
Scott Summets
Sujuk








Since: 27.6.02

Since last post: 3961 days
Last activity: 3929 days
#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by Leroy
    I think some of you are missing the point. The film was not really about gun control. It was about the "culture of fear" with in the United States. The NRA and Heston were focal points not because the are gun advocates, but because they are fanatical gun advocates, even beyond the sense of good taste (like having a NRA rally days after a school shooting - in the same town).

    Guns are merely a way of addressing the issue. Moore, in my view, did not come across very anti-gun at all during the film.



Isn't Moore in the NRA?



Midterms suck, but not as bad as necro angles.
drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

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#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by Scott Summets

      Originally posted by Leroy
      I think some of you are missing the point. The film was not really about gun control. It was about the "culture of fear" with in the United States. The NRA and Heston were focal points not because the are gun advocates, but because they are fanatical gun advocates, even beyond the sense of good taste (like having a NRA rally days after a school shooting - in the same town).

      Guns are merely a way of addressing the issue. Moore, in my view, did not come across very anti-gun at all during the film.



    Isn't Moore in the NRA?



Lifetime member, no less.



Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of Punkinhead:

"I'm gonna go dig up a date!"
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#16 Posted on
I want to see this film, but, got no spare cash. I know Moore is very intellegent, so it should come off well.

As far as the columbine shooting, and the other first grader shooting, I am sure that the people that did the shooting themselves, were not the registered owners of those weapons.

I am all for people being able to own as many guns as they want, but, with that comes an enormous responsibility that they are used correctly, and not for criminal purposes.
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