But I have to say I hope that the "fan" who stopped Moises Alou from making that catch in the 8th inning of Game 6 of the NLCS got/gets beaten so badly that even his parents can't recognize him. There is no way on earth that guy should be walking out of Wrigley Field under his own power.
The ball was in the front row which means within the rules it was up for grabs among the fans and players equally. But, using common sense a real cubs fan would duck and let Alou catch the ball. The dozen replays from all the angles showed that Alou would've made the catch easy if not for the legal interference from at least two of the "cubs fans."
Alou, Prior, and the announcers originally killed the fan to be named later. The announcers said the other fans should, "throw that guy back onto the field" and inflict bodily harm.
Then in the 9th inning they reversed course and said the fan was 100% blameless. They were lucky security escorted this guy out.
Prior was unhittable, but nobody can keep his best stuff past 110 pitches in this day and age. Talk about a Dusty finish.
Its just the fact that if he allowed Alou to catch that ball, the inning would have ended tied at 3. But instead, the Marlins get an extra out, and score 5 more runs. I believe that only the team should be blamed for a loss, but this guy....is gonna catch a beatdown. They already threw beer at him, and they had security stacked around him. But security wont be there once he reaches home. And to make it worse, the guy was a CUBS FAN. Holy Crap. He better pray to Zeus that the Cubs win Game 7.
I could understand the announcers' point about it being a situation of instinct kicking in and the fan trying for the ball if it had been a small child; kids just aren't aware. But you can tell by looking at him that that guy is old enough to know what's going on. A beating is probably going overboard, but he did interfere with a ball in play in an NLCS game. Banning him from the stadium would be fair.
Blaming the fan is cheap. He did what any other fan would do, he went for the ball (and keep in mind, EVERY fan in the area went for the ball, not just the guy who actually made contact with it). He's not paid, he pays. So you can't hardly expect him to make good "game decisions". You know why the Cubs lost? They were looking for something to go wrong. I knew they were going to lose, not when the fan knocked the ball away, but when the Cubs players went apeshit acting like they already had lost the game just because of that. They were going to blow this anyway.
Keep in mind that no one scored on that played. No one got on base on that play. The situation after that play was exactly as it was before (or maybe even with one strike added on to the count, I can't remember what the count was, except for 3 balls). The Cubs make 2 outs, they go back to dugout with a 3 run lead.
But no, they gave up 8 runs AFTER that play. If you're going to blame someone, how about that shortstop who made the error AFTER that play, at which point the Cubs were STILL ahead. You know, the guy who is PAID millions to make plays, not expect a fan who pays to see a game to make a play.
Also, it wouldn't have been an easy catch. He probably would have made it, but we'll never know for sure. After all, you would have expected the SS to make the play on that easy ground ball, and he didn't.
The Cubs WILL lose game 7. And that won't be that fans fault either. The Cubs are looking for reasons to lose, and they have found one. I don't believe in curses, but I think the Cubs players do (and probably most of the fans), and it will become self-fulfilling.
Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
Well you know something, Mean Gene... The fan didn't single-handedly choke away a 3 run lead and let the Marlins hang an 8 on them. When adversity showed, the Cubs folded like a dollar store tent. Instead of sucking it up and finishing, they whined and let things out of their control get to them. That's not the mark of a champion. If the Cubs blame the loss on the fan like some people on this board (and likely in Chicago as well) are doing, then they've already lost Game 7. The Cubbies have less than 24 hours to get their heads out of their asses, figure out what really went wrong, and play their game, or they can once again punch their tickets to the World Series as spectators instead of players.
Originally posted by Swordsman YenThe fan didn't single-handedly choke away a 3 run lead and let the Marlins hang an 8 on them. When adversity showed, the Cubs folded like a dollar store tent. Instead of sucking it up and finishing, they whined and let things out of their control get to them. That's not the mark of a champion. If the Cubs blame the loss on the fan like some people on this board (and likely in Chicago as well) are doing, then they've already lost Game 7. The Cubbies have less than 24 hours to get their heads out of their asses, figure out what really went wrong, and play their game, or they can once again punch their tickets to the World Series as spectators instead of players.
The loss is the Cubs. The insanely stupid act though is all on this guy's head. 50 years from now his friends are going to ask him "what was it like being the guy who might have cost the Cubs their one World Series chance in the last 100 years?"
And as for tomorrow, I would sell my car, house, children, pets, spouse, anything you own and bet it on the Marlins. No team has been more doomed since Game 7 of the 86 World Series.
What any other fan would do? Hardly. There have been countless plays in the playoffs were a foul ball lands in the first couple rows of seats, and I would say just about every time the people know enough to let a play be made. They don't reach out and interfere with the fielder; hell, the man's hand was in Alou's glove that's how close it was. It's not about making "good game decisions", it's about paying attention to the play and remember that a ticket gives you the right to be a spectator, not a participant.
As for the argument that no one got on base that play so it doesn't matter, that's bogus. If the fan stays in his seat, there's one on and 2 out. Instead, the batter who should have been out got on, making it 2 on with 1 out. Would it have made a difference? No one can say conclusively. The fact is the inning went differently because a fan interfered. To me, if a fan doesn't know enough to stay out of the way of the play, he shouldn't be at the ballpark.
Originally posted by BigVitoMarkThe fact is the inning went differently because a fan interfered.
No, the inning went differently because nine highly-paid athletes couldn't put it behind them and continue playing the game at hand like professionals and champions do. Yes, the fan costed them an out and yes he made an error in judgment. But the Cubs still had enough breathing room to have a chance to turn things their way. If this is enough to get the Cubbies rattled, then they frankly don't deserve to be in the World Series, let alone win one.
It's still Kerry Wood vs. Mark Redman. You've still got to like the Cubs, but....damn. This is starting to take on the looks of what Bill Simmons calls a Dead Man Walking game.
"When this bogus term alternative rock was being thrown at every '70s retro rehash folk group, we were challenging people to new sonic ideas. If some little snotty anarchist with an Apple Mac and an attitude thinks he invented dance music and the big rock group is coming into his territory, [that's] ridiculous." - Bono, 1997
I already said I believe the team is responisible for a loss. The fan made a horrible decision, but he wasnt the one giving up 8 runs in one inning. Still, that wont stop people from openin cans of whoop-ass.
Originally posted by geemoneyI'm a big Marlins fan, but you gotta feel sorry for that guy. Jeez. If this were in Tampa Bay or something, he'd get away with it. But Chicago? He's gonna pay.
I don't know about that Tampa Bay comment. Some of us are pretty pissed about never seeing a winning game at Tropicana field. I mean, the Cubs manage to come close to the playoffs every few years. Tampa has problems coming close to .500.
And some of us get pretty fightin' drunk at the ballpark, on top of the pent-up rage regarding so many boneheaded and mediocre players. And we have a sense of chiseling pain at the fact that the only time some fish on the Rays goes 4-for-4 with a stolen base and a great defensive play is when the score was Visitor: 8, Tampa: 0 after the top of the second.
Anyway, were someone to do that at the Trop, I would throw a bottle (plastic, anything) at that goddamned waterheaded bastard. We fuck up enough as it is, we don't need help from some cottage-cheese-fleshed pasty tourist mutant on loan from a foreign Tundra wasteland come to drive like a vengeful Amish psychopath in a rented Cadillac while wearing a floral print Hawaiian shirt and a green visor that says "WOW! THAT ST. PETERSBURG SUN!"
Then again, I come from the San Francisco Bay Area, so I carry with me a surging bitterness for teams that choke, since I simply do not expect teams to do so every year. I imagine those who were born here might be blessed with some innate numbing overproduction of endorphins that allows them to watch soul-suckingly bad baseball and mentally interpret it as something they deserve to have happen to them.
Either that, or they don't watch D-Rays baseball at all, which seems common.
Man, I flipped the channel over to Nip/Tuck since I thought that the Cubs had it, and apparently, it was right after that that all this crazy stuff went down. The situation with the fan is real tough. I didn't see it, but if he had to reach UP for the ball, rather than over the wall, then it was foul and thus, fair game. One news story I read had a quote by the guy sitting next to him saying that neither one of them knew that Alou was right there, or they would have moved out of the way.
I just hope this guy doesn't get killed by pissed off Cubs fans in the next couple of hours, (if he hasn't already). If I didn't see Alou there, I don't know what I would have done in his situation. On the other hand, I probably would have been one of the pissed off masses throwing beer at him, too. It's the nature of fandom.
The only thing that would have made that situation better (for me, as a casual observer who was only watching to see the Cubs celebrate), would be if the fan caught the ball, and then ripped off his Cubs jacket to reveal a Marlins jersey. And then maybe dance on the Cubs jacket.
And did anybody notice that the other guy (or "kid", if you're the announcers) that was jostling with Mr. Unfortunate was the FIRST person to point him out to security? He COMPLETELY threw him under the bus.
Gotta love Cubs fans.
"If you're wowed by the prescience of 1993's Demolition Man-which mentions a President Arnold Schwarzenegger-consider this: The Chicago Cubs are now facing the Miami-based Florida Marlins in the baseball playoffs-much like an utterly far-out scenario predicted in 1989's Back to the Future Part II, which had the Cubs winning the World Series over "Miami". Too bad no one said anything about the Red Sox." -Entertainment Weekly
yes, but it's much easier to score 8 runs when you are effectively given four outs. Obviously if it had been caught Castillo would not have walked, or Pierre gone to 3rd. obviously a better situation if Gonzalez boots the ball from Pudge, maybe Prior even strikes him out for the third out.
David Pinto's Baseball Musings has a great piece up on the Brewers today, with links to some fascinating information regarding the Brewers, particularly their revenue-sharing income. http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/ 005819.php