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The W - Pro Wrestling - How should Jackie and/or Trish get punished?
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deadbeater
Morcilla








Since: 12.2.02
From: Parts unknown

Since last post: 4320 days
Last activity: 4320 days
#1 Posted on
Last RAW, Jackie and Trish pulled off one of the worst matchups that lasted over two minutes in the history of wrestling period. Not even JR and Lawler could cover it up.
There are suggestions that Jackie goes back to the minor leagues. But I for one won't be satisfied with that.

There are opportunities, however, for a monster of an angle that can stem around Jackie or Trish getting punished for that debacle. And weinerville, having the best bookers around, will not disappoint in metering out the discipline. Or alternately, you may provide encouragement to the two, the choice is yours. Trish and Jackie are standing right here, with their heads down. Bookerpeople, what do you do?



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ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 76 days
Last activity: 21 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52

In my opinion, making an angle of the debacle would only further discourage Jackie. Yeah, the match sucked, I'm not going to debate that for one minute. But it shouldn't be played to crush Jackie's confidence. That's not right, especially seeing as how it's not her fault she's so damn green.

I'd simply send Jackie to the minor leagues to hone her skill and keep Trish in whatever angle they're currently doing with her-- that's all.

It's not as if WWE has been encouraging very many of its female wrestlers to actually, you know, develop any skill, though. Stacey and Torrie make great eye candy, but that's all. Lita's wrestling skill is... eh, decent, considering the level of wrestlers she tends to face.

But the only women who can really work a match are Molly, Trish and Jazz. And two of them developed that skill someplace other than WWE-- Molly in WCW, and Jazz in ECW. Trish is really the only woman with great skills who learned those skills in WWE. Sad, but true.

The attitude that women are eye candy only and don't need to be taken as serious wrestlers has been prevalent in WWE since the Attitude era. Hopefully, the fact that Molly and Trish are in the top women's feud right now is a sign of thing to come-- women's feuds based on wrestling, not on tits and ass.

Not that I don't like a good T&A session as much as the next guy, but there's a time and place.



“You bring what you got. The measuring stick just changed around here, pal. You're looking at it.”

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Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

Zaphod
Chorizo








Since: 24.2.02

Since last post: 4239 days
Last activity: 4231 days
#3 Posted on
Eke, don't forget Ivory in the list of WWE females who can actually work a match. And since she probably learned in GLOW, that's a staggering thought.
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 76 days
Last activity: 21 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Quite right. Let me rephrase that:

“But the only women who can really work a match that WWE actually uses are Molly, Trish and Jazz.”

(edited by ekedolphin on 13.7.02 0457)


“And each and every one of you, when you see me, you will not put your eyes directly on me-- you will look to the ground and you will refer to me as 'Lord Master.'”

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Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1936 days
Last activity: 1870 days
#5 Posted on
Trish looked mighty pissed-off at the end of that match. Can't blame her, really-her arm at least brushed the back of Jackie's head on the bulldog, how hard is it to flop forward?






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Alex
Bratwurst








Since: 24.2.02

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#6 Posted on
I say, next week Jackie takes a hard powerbomb from Bradshaw, and then starts talking to a mop with a face drawn on it for the next 8 months.
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 76 days
Last activity: 21 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
And it leads to a tearful reunion between Perry Saturn and Moppy, only for Moppy to turn heel when she says she doesn't love Perry anymore-- she wants to be involved in an interspecies lesbian relationship with Jackie!

...Are you mad? Don't give them any ideas for more WrestleCrap than they've already given us recently! Gaaa!



“And each and every one of you, when you see me, you will not put your eyes directly on me-- you will look to the ground and you will refer to me as 'Lord Master.'”

Kevin Nash, January 17, 2000

Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02

tomvejada
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4023 days
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#8 Posted on
Jackie will go "You're welcome." when Moppy tells her.

Seriously, Jackie should go to OVW, and stay there for a few months, like Nidia did. She should've had one appearence after she won Tough Enough, and then could've gone to the minors.

Trish shouldn't get punished.



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BobHollySTILLRules
Bockwurst








Since: 3.1.02
From: C-Bus, Ohio

Since last post: 4333 days
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#9 Posted on
That wouldn't work. She'd make You're Welcome sound contrived and read, ruining it all. She can't even pull off stupid, maybe she could play a big piece of cardboard. She could wear a huge square suit and not even hurt her workrate.

(edited by BobHollySTILLRules on 13.7.02 0942)


I am Mr. Positivity!


Sometimes.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1379 days
Last activity: 287 days
#10 Posted on
It's still early, but maaaaaan, Jackie's seeming like a bust at the moment. She's cute, but so are all the divas. Jake or Kenny wouldn't have mailed in such a shitty performance. She'll go to the minors for a few months, then resurface as Chris Harvard's stuck-up girlfriend. Or Tajiri's geisha girl.... or..... the straight girl who won't leave Billy and Chuck alone!!!



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex

"Was he no-selling?" - Me
DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3425 days
Last activity: 3419 days
#11 Posted on
I still think everyone is giving too harsh a punishment to the girl. I don't think she should go down right now. After all, what kind of message will this send to future TE competitors? "We'll let you wrestle in the WWE, but mess up ONE MATCH, and you're out!" I just don't see it, particularly when Ross said repeatedly throughout that match on RAW that the new TE people were green and were going to make mistakes. It seems they are willing to work with it for awhile longer before deciding that she really needs to go down. Yes, I agree she is cute (and contray to what others keep saying, her promo ability is NOT that bad--see Linda's), and they've already put her on the RAW site, so those are things that make me think she will still be around. Also read the Ross Report which doesn't say anything about any punishments and blames the *whole roster* for putting on a bowling shoe ugly show. It says they are going to try and pick it up, so that seems to be their plan.

This is what I would do--don't blatantly develop any kind of "Jackie sucks" angle. Just drop her to Heat for a couple weeks to get involved in a minor feud with Victoria. (Victoria could say "I've been in this business a lot longer than you have and have honed my skill, you're just an MTV girl, etc.") But keep them both pretty heelish, have Jackie get all vicious in the ring and show a lot of intensity (probably something that could help keep her focused and on script.) The following week have it be Victoria's turn to win a match, showing us what she's got. Eventually bring them together as a team on RAW to feud with Trish. Trish goes to MOLLY of all women for help...etc. etc.

DMC





(edited by DMC on 13.7.02 0940)


"And win, lose, or draw, trust me. I'm gonna respect myself in the morning, and you're gonna respect me." -Arn Anderson
VK Wallstreet
Goetta








Since: 18.6.02
From: New York, NY, USA

Since last post: 4288 days
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#12 Posted on
It wasn't fair to put Jackie in there so soon. It should always have been one-match-and-you're-gone, and the match should have been against Ivory, who was familiar with Jackie's abilities or lack thereof.

Remember, the prize on Tough Enough is a developmental contract. Which means you go to the developmental territories. It's ridiculous to expect someone who's been a pro wrestler for all of six months or whatever to be able to hold her own in WWE. There are people down in OVW who have been wrestling for years and still haven't gotten the call.



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BobHollySTILLRules
Bockwurst








Since: 3.1.02
From: C-Bus, Ohio

Since last post: 4333 days
Last activity: 4333 days
#13 Posted on
Exactly, that's the terms of the competition, a developmental deal. She has no business being on TV when Victoria could be in that role.

And her promo abilitly is THAT bad. I don't know which Linda you meant, but Linda Miles isn't cutting promos all the time, and Linda McMahon is bad, but she's there for a reason. She's the CEO, you can let her be bad because you know what she's gonna say is probably going to be important, she's not a performer anyway. Jackie is awful. Could she improve? Sure, but that's what the developmental territories are for.



I am Mr. Positivity! Sometimes.

Bengals, Playoffs, 2002.

DON'T BELIEVE IT!

*I* want to be the right one!
DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3425 days
Last activity: 3419 days
#14 Posted on
Yeah but you've got to remember how the WWE is seeing this- This is *JACKIE*, the hot chick who played around on her boyfriend on MTV and gave clevage shots to America. The girl who's win on TE sent "shockwaves" through the business. "What, two female competitors?!" I think all of that Tough Enough business still has some legs to it, unless she has another big mess up soon and seems like she doesn't have a clue, or doesn't want to be there. At least give the girl ONE more chance, sheesh.

(I just think this is perhaps a good opportunity to do the "psycho vicious bratty bitch" persona that we sometimes see from Trish but because she's a babyface she can't go there. I say do this with Jackie, kind of like she's getting backed into a corner and bring out what's "really" inside of her in order to survive. I think it could work.)

DMC

(edited by DMC on 13.7.02 1017)


"And win, lose, or draw, trust me. I'm gonna respect myself in the morning, and you're gonna respect me." -Arn Anderson
Alex
Bratwurst








Since: 24.2.02

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#15 Posted on
Buff Bagwell messed up one match, and he was gone...of course, that comparison is hardly fair, didn't Buff get into a fight with someone in the locker room, and show up late and such?
Kawshen
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Bronx, NY

Since last post: 1908 days
Last activity: 168 days
AIM:  
#16 Posted on
Buff Bagwell messed up one match, and he was gone...of course, that comparison is hardly fair, didn't Buff get into a fight with someone in the locker room, and show up late and such?

Well, Marcus Bagwell is supposed to be a veteran. Same situation with Kronik when they both got canned after their match with UT and Kane.



Anyhow, I say ship Jackie down to the minors for a while.




Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3539 days
Last activity: 1959 days
#17 Posted on
Jackie needs to get off TV now. What happened Monday was as bad a brain freeze that I've ever seen in the wrestling. Jackie paniced and got totally lost. But taking that aside, I've never ever seen anyone as bad on the mic as she is. With no emotion in her face or voice. Spitting out 5 words a minute. Give her Nidia's acting coach while she's in the minors and that where she should be.

As for Trish. My god she's been on of the most consistent Raw workers since the split. Every week going out there doing her job with Jazz or Ivory or Victoria or Molly or Jaqualine, heck even does her best in gimmick matches with Terri and Stacy. Watch the match and you could really see it was Jackie who was out of postition all the time. Trish tried to save it but Jackie was a lost case (like Buff was with Booker in WCW's first WWF match)

Unfortunatly the WWE spin is already on full effect and they are splitting the blame amoung Trish as well

Tazz on byte this - Tazz now joins and is asked about where Jackie belongs. Tazz says he doesn’t know enough about the developmental territories to say what you can learn there (That doesn’t sound like a ringing endorsement of the WWE Developmental Territories). Tazz says Trish doesn’t have the experience of Molly Holly or Ivory. Tazz says Trish has picked things up very well, but is still green. Tazz thinks it takes two people to have a great match and two to have a stinker match. Tazz says the powers that be need to decide what to do after a match like that. Kelly says they got great experience of learning what to do when things go wrong. Tazz says after a blown spot you should at least grab your opponent and perform a hold no matter how much the crowd boos, not just fake a finish that was blown.

Pritchard says again it is way too soon to put Jackie on television. Tazz says maybe so, but Maven looked good right away. Tazz says he put Maven over in his first match and then Maven fought Undertaker, thus the veteran opponents made Maven look good.. So Tazz says they should give Jackie a more experienced opponent. Tazz says he saw a very talented Molly Holly carry an inexperienced Torrie Wilson in an earlier match. Tazz says he is sorry for making fun of Molly in his announcing on Smackdown, and that he should have talked about her great in-ring talent.


What a bunch of bullshit. IT reeks of knowing they screwed up and are getting heat for having 2 tough enough winners being women. But defended it by saying they were the most qualified. Well one of those qualified women is a laughing stock of the WWE on the mic and on Monday she had a complete brain freeze. They can't admit that Jackie has no business at all on TV in any form and they got fooled on the show by her huge ummm "heart"

Tazz talks about it takes 2 to put on a stinker, I guess he never did watch Booker/Buff like we've mentioned. I'm sure Tazz will be the first to raise his hand and accept blame when he's in there with a rookie who forgets his spots, SURE you will. Wasn't this hypocrite the one who chewed up his studients on Tough Enough because it's "their" fault. I guess Jackie one huge month of experience makes her an equal now! Right. The only thing I agree was that Trish should have hit another move. But what do we know the REf could have called for the finish.

Can we hear more excuses for her horrible mic work. Maybe it's Jonathon Coachmans fault, or maybe it was Vinces huge muscles, or Molly's funky hair or Trish's hat. Ya that's why Jackie sucks on the mic.

I don't know why he brought Maven into the discussion. Fine Maven never had a brain freeze on live TV good for him. Jackie DID.

What a slap in the face of one of the hardest workers in the WWE (Trish) just to protect there poor tough enough decision. I'm actually not surprised at all unfortunatly. Seriously if Victoria looked as bad as Jackie did do you think WWE would be making excuses for her like they are Gayda. Not bloodly likely.








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Tom Dean
Bockwurst








Since: 30.8.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 3256 days
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#18 Posted on
Moppy is dead btw. Raven put her through a wood chipper. And not a moment too soon.



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Downtown Bookie
Morcilla








Since: 7.4.02
From: The Inner City, Now Living In The Country

Since last post: 84 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#19 Posted on
Just my opinion, of course, but add my voice to those who think Jackie needs a lot more training before being allowed to participate in a televised match again. Whether that traning comes from OVW, or HWA, or from a rented gym with Fit Finlay is immaterial to me. What is material to me is that it's too damn dangerous to have an in ring wrestler blow as many spots as she did in her match against Trish Stratus.

Yes, even though Tazz's remarks were intended mainly to cover his own ass as one of Jackie's trainers, Tazz is correct when he says Trish could have done a better job of covering up some of Jackie's mistakes. But, IMHO, no matter how well Trish may have covered for her, the best Trish would have been able to do would have been to raise this stinker from worst match of the century to worst of the year.

Yes, I'm all for giving second (or third, or fourth, or whatever) chances to young talent. I hope Jackie is given the training she needs so that she may develop the natural talent the TE2 trainers saw in her and one day become a top entertainer in this business.

But the fact is that pro wrestling is too dangerous an occupation as it is without having to literally place your life in the hands of someone who doesn't know what she's doing. Jackie's mistakes this time only resulted in one the worst matches ever televised. Next time the results could be much worse.




Patiently waiting to be Stratusfied.
DMC
Liverwurst








Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

Since last post: 3425 days
Last activity: 3419 days
#20 Posted on
NetHack, I agree that Trish deserves *zero* blame for what happened. All you can do is say she should have gotten up and hit a real bulldog, but Trish was just not *veteran* enough at that point to do that. She had never had to deal with such a major screw up before. Now that she has, she WILL know what to do next time. But that doesn't mean that Trish stunk it up at all---you can't fault her for not being able to react and got *out of her way* to make things look better for someone else's screw-up. She did just fine doing what she should have done, and will do even better next time. That's it.

And this will be the last time I defend Jackie- saying lines PERHAPS too slowly does not equal bad acting! Go back and watch the promo again if you have to. Jackie showed different facial expressions when Chris Nowinski walked in, showed a different one when Trish announced Bradshaw as her partner. I just don't see how her acting has been as horrible as everyone keeps saying. Sure it needs work, but so does Torrie's and even Trish's. (Let's face it, the only woman who can cut a natural-looking, solid-acting promo is Ivory.)

Again the worst promo actor as far as I can tell IS Linda Miles--if all we have to judge is one promo, then why not judge by it? AND maybe they have not given her another promo to date because they KNOW how freakin bad she is! She so far may be better than Jackie in the ring because she has yet to have a major screw up (unless you count that totally mistimed drop-kick in her debut match), but stop ignoring her when talking about people who can't cut any kind of promo. To me she will be worse than Jackie until she can prove to the developmental people that she should have more mic time.

DMC





"And win, lose, or draw, trust me. I'm gonna respect myself in the morning, and you're gonna respect me." -Arn Anderson
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