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The W - Pro Wrestling - How Much Credit Do the Wrestlers Deserve?
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Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
#1 Posted on
It’s got to be said. A lot of the time, we come on the board here and we post about so-and-so being God, a great worker. Usually Angle is the one who gets this accolade. But what I want to know is how much of these great workers’ matches are actually…them? Which is to say, the road agents, many of whom help put matches together, how much credit do they deserve? How much input do the matchmakers have on how a match goes, who does what and when, who calls spots and so on? For instance, Brock flew down to Florida to work out with the Rock in a ring since Rock’s no houseshow deal prevented them from practising (or at least I read somewhere he did). So how much of that whole ending result, the match the way it came out, is Rock’s doing, Brock’s doing, or the agents’ doing?
Surely the wrestlers deserve most of the credit, since if it was only a matter of putting good matches together from a planning standpoint every match would be a classic. But then, there should be an accounting for how to work around weaknesses and that is the agent’s job. Mike Awesome, the awesome specimen everyone thought he was in ECW, never had another good match once he left. But he had quite a few good ones in ECW. So how much of that was Awesome and how much was Heyman, or whomever was putting the match together? Who should we be applauding here?




"There once lived a man named Ray
Who suspected he just might be gay,
he got moist around males,
and he painted his nails,
but his ass-f*cking gave it away."
Promote this thread!
A-MOL
Frankfurter








Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

Since last post: 3789 days
Last activity: 3731 days
#2 Posted on
The Awesome point for me comes down to one simple situation - Vince does not want his wrestlers constantly being thrown neck-first to the mat. Awesome was allowed in ECW to be as stiff as he wanted and throw people around like rag-dolls but in the WWF and in WCW, he had to tone it down to reduce the chance of hurting his opponent and I do not belive he adapted to the change that well.



...full of energy. Multi-orgasmic, if you will, in a cosmic sort of way."
Mild Mannered Madman
Toulouse








Since: 1.3.02
From: Westminster, CA

Since last post: 385 days
Last activity: 102 days
#3 Posted on
Most spots in the ring come from the wrestlers, themselves. Oftentimes, while they're in the ring. The road agent just explains their time frame and the finish. This excepts cases like Hogan-Warrior, Rock-Hogan, and Rock-Brock.





We're all mad here... I'm mad... You're mad...
bigwavedave
Blutwurst








Since: 3.1.02
From: morro bay ca

Since last post: 4238 days
Last activity: 4238 days
#4 Posted on
with the writing in the doghouse, I think most of the wrestlers right now deserve lots of credit for soldiering on and being as personally entertaining as possible. they worse the writing gets, the harder some of the wrestlers are trying to put on a good show for the fans. some of the top and bottom tier guys have been lulled into a sense of complacency because the writers haven't challenged them, but most are really doing their best to make lemonade out of lemons. cases in point are goldust, booker t, rvd, angle, the cw's and the women especially.



"My parents said I could be anything, so I became an ASSHOLE!"
Scorpio
Boudin rouge








Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 3780 days
Last activity: 3731 days
#5 Posted on

Seriously, yes.

The wrestlers are the actors. It doesn't matter how good a production you make of Hamlet, if you put Buff Bagwell in there, it's gonna stink up the house.

Whereas a good actor can be the only redeeming factor in an otherwise bad movie.

Sure, the backstage guys do a helluva lot towards making it a good show. But they are nothing without the talent to promote.




PMMJ

"Nothing remains interesting where anything may happen." -H.G. Wells

Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2590 days
Last activity: 2589 days
#6 Posted on
I agree, the talent of the WWE deserves some kind of award for going on with the crap we had to sit through for the first part of the year. The storylines were just plain brutal and reeked of nonsense. Oh and if you think HHH slinked by without a scratch think again. I still have that angle with Hogan, and it's so obvious from his interviews that he's a Flair guy. He practically had to force his way through that one. Oh, and Lucy? Oh yeah, he'd rather send his dog to the vet instead of wrestle. Let's be honest, the storylines brought many of the talent's stock down. But we should (as real fans) give them a big applause for not reacting to them the way Stone Cold did, even though I was about to at one point...

Ringmistress



Heel HHH rules!
RawLo
Salami








Since: 9.7.02
From: San Diego, CA

Since last post: 3620 days
Last activity: 2865 days
#7 Posted on
(nods to RingMistress)
Well said!
Rocky spoke of how it was his idea to be the first person to kick out of the Stone Cold Stunner, then have Austin kick out of the Rock Bottom at one of their classic Wrestlemania main-events. I think they boys call a lot of that themselves.
The crap writing hurts. It's true!
But sometimes a wrestler can take a crap angle/ gimmick and make it work. (See Goldust!)
mountinman44
Sujuk








Since: 8.5.02
From: San Diego, CA

Since last post: 1166 days
Last activity: 1013 days
Y!:
#8 Posted on
During all the crap we've seen over the last year, the two guys that really stand out to me are Angle and Jericho. Do I praise them both too much? Probably, but who was the Undisputed Champion while HHH rehabbed and waited to take it himself? Jericho, and he had to put up with being, really, the fourth wheel in his angle to lose the belt. You can't give this guy enough credit for not shutting it down after that.
Angle has been gold since he walked in the door. Right now, I think he is the best performer in the WWF. No one is cutting better promos, and no one has better matches.



Rest in Peace, Chick.
WhoBettahThanDeion
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 4299 days
Last activity: 4135 days
#9 Posted on
Hey Yo...

From what I've peiced together from wrestling documantary's and Foley's book, the wrestlers know the ending, and in the main events sometimes they have help from Patterson or Vince, etc. But, the actual match stuff, they do themselves, hours, sometimes days before the actual match (Austin/Rock I, according to Rock was planned days in advance and they went over it and over it, while on Beyond the Mat at the infamous "I Quit" match Rock and Foley are shown going over what they might do hours before while they're setting up). Plus, creative does some things right. Elevation of Goldust from a crappy 2nd generation degenerate hollywod homosexual to the the hilarious promo guy who can sell an arm better than the entire roster is genius! The writing staff has been fifty fifty. No worse, no better.
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2590 days
Last activity: 2589 days
#10 Posted on
I can tell from the way you described his improvment, WhoBettah, that when Goldust first came on the scene you LOVED it!

Ringmistress



Heel HHH rules!
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 3 hours
#11 Posted on
Some in this thread seem to confuse the writing with the planning of a match.
Writing is done by the well..writers.
The planning and putting together of a match is done by the wrestlers and the road agents I believe.
Guys like Patterson are apparently great at this, and Pat is really a finish guy, putting together the ends of matches.

Some wrestlers go with the flow in the ring, having only planned and prepared some spots, their big spots.
Some plan matches to the second, I believe I read DDP is an example of this.

I believe the wrestlers deserve ALOT of credit for what happens in the ring. They get smacked around, dropped on their heads and everything and still they have to remember where they are and what is supposed to happen next (Kurt in the HHH-Rock-Angle 3way had no idea where he was but managed to be in time for his spots).




"...And I use that to fuck them some place fairly uncomfortable."
"What, like the back of a volkswagen ?"
-Mallrats
WhoBettahThanDeion
Bockwurst








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 4299 days
Last activity: 4135 days
#12 Posted on
Hey Yo...

Yes, my B(ad) as it were. I should have put a space between the match stuff and the creative kudo's on Goldust.

Also, I've read/heard about how Bret Hart and Michaels were famous for not pre-planning their matches. They had the ability to just go out there and be brilliant and call their spots on the fly. Now THAT'S what I call talent.

Also, creatively, I think some of the wrestlers have a lot of creative input into their characters.

And, no, Mistress, I don't remember much of Goldust's original stint, as I wasn't a fan at the time. I tuned out sometime in the early to mid nineties and didn't tune back in, again, until '98 (Summerslam) and haven't missed a pay per view since Survivor Series '98. The Rock brought me back, but later on guys like Angle and Benoit really made me interested in the technical side (I'm a turning into a tape FIEND, collecting anything I can of pretty much anybody). Also, I mourn missing the nWo storyline originally. But, then again, I had a lot of fun then, too, so I wouldn't trade that time in for the world.

But, clue me in on what you meant about 'Dust. Actually, I was the only one of my friends who liked him for a long time, and this was at the end of his WWF stint in '98 when he was being somewhat mediocre.
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Swagger. I so want to call that Orton wins without getting the title, except that there doesn't seem to be a way for that to happen in an Extreme Rules match. (And, hey, it wouldn't be unprecedented for them to make it happen anyway.)
- Peter The Hegemon, Extreme Rules Prediction Thread (2010)
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