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The W - Pro Wrestling - How many Big Show heel/face turns?????
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Lotty
Chourico








Since: 23.3.02
From: Bay Area

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Anybody keep count..has to be at least in the 20s...



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LeechOfTheNight
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Since: 16.1.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 4128 days
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#2 Posted on
Since joining the WWF or ever? Let's see:

1.) When he joined the WWF, he was a heel as a member of the Vince's corporation. About a month or so later, he turned face when Vince kicked him out or he quit or something like that.

2.) During the summer of '99, he joined forces with Taker and turned heel.

3.) Fall '99, his daddy was dieing(storyline-wise anyway) and D'Lo was all like, "Sorry about your dad" and he turned face.

4.) December '99/January 2000: The Rock was talking smack about throwing 29 jabronies over the top rope and winning the Rumble and Show didn't take kindly to Rock calling him a jabroni so he turned heel there.

5.) April 2000: After losing the the WWF Title match at Wrestlemania, he decided he didn't care about his career or anything hard like that and wanted to be "entertaining". So, here he turned once again.

6.) July 2000: Show comes back from an injury at the hands of Shane-O-Mac and is about to chokeslam Shane, when he decides to chokeslam Taker instead. Another heel turn. He soon went down to Ohio Valley only to return at the Rumble '01, still a heel.

7.) The whole WCW invasion thing fucks everything up and all of a sudden, everyone likes the Big Show again. Face turn!

8.) Monday night: Chokeslams Austin and joins the nWo. Heel turn.


So, that's 8 since being in the WWF. Anyone know his WCW history?



"T is for 'Time to leave' you stupid richers!"
Debaser
Mettwurst








Since: 22.3.02

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#3 Posted on
It seems to me like there should be more than that. Like there was a point in time where he was switching back and forth on like a weekly basis, mostly because the WWF couldn't be bothered to give him an actual personaility and just sent him out there against whatever face/heel needed to fight a match as an underdog. Of course this could just be my own fevered imaginings.
Swordsman Yen
Frankfurter








Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

Since last post: 3886 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I'll give the WCW run a shot...

1) Debuted as The Giant and a member of the The Dungeon of Doom. His very first match was with Hogan at Halloween Havoc '95, which made it easy to distinguish him as heel. He continued feuding with Hogan until Hogan took a vacation. The Giant then set his sights on Flair's world title, and got quite a face pop in his title win. Giant still remained pretty much a heel after that match with feuds against Sting and Luger until the nWo arrived and Hogan's shocking swerve.

2) Was technically turned face when he had to represent WCW to fend off Hogan and the nWo at Hog Wild '96.

3) Turned full-scale heel by forsaking WCW to join the nWo shortly after losing the title to Hogan at Hog Wild '96.

4) Was run out of the nWo the day after Starrcade '96 for not renouncing the title shot he won at World War 3 a month earlier, and also for giving the nWo their first loss vs. Luger the night before. Face turn.

5) Continued feuding with the nWo through much of '97 until they split into two factions. Joined Hogan's black and white nWo to return to heeldom.

6) The nWo eventually kissed and made up, though still divided between the B-team and the Wolfpac. Giant was unceremoniusly kicked out again, then fought and lost as a face against Kevin Nash before departing WCW.



"Say 'what' again. SAY 'WHAT' AGAIN! I dare you, I double dare you, motherf--ker! Say 'what' one more goddamn time!" -- Samuel L. Jackson, Pulp Fiction (1994)

"I tell you what, why don't you say 'what' if you like to sleep with your own sister." -- Undertaker, 4/1/02 RAW, putting an annoying fad in its place
SerWolfe
Landjager








Since: 11.1.02
From: st louis

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Not too many turns i dont think. I mean Big Show hasn't had a lot of direction in the WWF so i imagine the bookers where using him to fill in shows and that probably required him to be a face or a heel at different times. I like him as a heel.



I am the JOBBER TO THE STARS. You better remember that.

Cardinals 9W 11L (as of 4-23) 4 losses in a row against the brewers? what the hell?
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 76 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18

I would argue that a nebulous character who fights both faces and heels is just a tweener, not someone that constantly switches between face and heel.

A face or heel turn should be clearly demarkated by an angle.





Then I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform,
And tell you every detail of Caractacus's uniform;
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
LeechOfTheNight
Head cheese








Since: 16.1.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 4128 days
Last activity: 3270 days
#7 Posted on
Yeah, I'd say there were some times when it was hard to say whether Show was a heel or a face. Like, for example, when he was facing Kane a couple months back. They had this mini-feud which may have lasted a show or two where it seemed like he may have been a heel, but all of a sudden, he was a face the next week. Never really full on turned so it really didn't count. I'd say the things I came up with above counted as face and heel turns becausae there were angles that went along with them. Granted, the "I'm a good guy because I'm not in WCW" barely counts, but we did know for sure he was a face...


Just to comment on what SerWolfe said, if you think about, 8 face/heel turns in about 3 years is a lot. Can you really think of anyone whose had more in these past three years? Really, check top names out:


Austin: Was face up until WM X7 where he alligned himself with Vince McMahon. Had a quasi-turn back around InVasion only to allign himself with the Alliance. More of a swerve than two turns. Then, turned full on face after Survivor Series. So, that's 2 turns in 3 year.

Rock: Was heel back in '99 up until the day after Backlash when he was kicked out of the Corporation. Been face since then. 1 turn in 3 years. In a few weeks(or maybe already), it'll have been 3 years without a turn!

HHH: Turned heel at WM XV when he pedigreed X-Pac(hmmm...something tells that would get quite a different reaction today). Got into a feud with Angle around Summerslam 2000, causing a face turn in the process. Turned back heel a couple months later when he revealed himself to be Rikishi's accomplice in that whole running over Austin dealy. Most recently, he came back from an injury back in January as a face. 4 turns.

Taker: Was a heel back in '99 playing the whole Dead Man/satanic cult leader thing up. Returns from injury at Judgement Day 2000 as a face. Turned heel by making JR kiss Vince McMahon's ass back in November(damn, that's gotta one of the strangest turns ever). 2 turns.

Kane: Was a member of the Corporation, but kinda tweening back in early '99. We'll say he had a full on face turn just after WM XV. Turned heel on Taker in Summer of 2000 for no particular reason other than the fact that the Big Show was too fat to feud with the Dead Man. Turned face again when he started teaming with Taker again after the 2001 Rumble. 3 turns.

Wow, HHH is the only one that even comes close with 4 turns. Can anyone else come up with somone else with as many turns as Show had since he's been in the WWF? Gotta be some midcarder with a number close to his...

(edited by LeechOfTheNight on 24.4.02 2119)
"T is for 'Time to leave' you stupid richers!"
Nykk
Longanisa








Since: 26.1.02
From: Ohio

Since last post: 3917 days
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#8 Posted on
The closest I can come up with is Billy Gunn, who...

1. Three years ago was on the last legs of a face run with the Road Dogg. He turned on Road Dogg after they couldn't win the tag team titles.

2. Stayed heel until Fall '99, when he reunited with the Road Dogg and reformed the New Age Outlaws.

3. Turned heel again a month later when DX reformed under heel Triple H.

4. Was kicked out of DX and then was out with a shoulder injury until Fall 2000, when he came back and sided with a face Chyna to feud with the RTC and Eddie Guerrero.

5. Turned heel after last year's King of the Ring, which spawned the infamous "Billy Bitchcakes" promo from Edge.

6. Again, the Alliance screws everything up and he becomes a defacto face.

7. He teams with Chuck Palumbo and they become heels somewhere in the annals of Jakked.
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

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#9 Posted on
Well, I'm too tired/lazy to look it up, but any thread that mentions numerous turns has to involve Lex Luger and his pointless, random bouncing back and forth... I think he at least had the highest total for completely unexplained turns, if not the most period.

Plus, I just had to wax nostalgic about his selling technique. "DOH! DOH!"



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The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
Nykk
Longanisa








Since: 26.1.02
From: Ohio

Since last post: 3917 days
Last activity: 3312 days
#10 Posted on
Plus, I just had to wax nostalgic about his selling technique. "DOH! DOH!"

That reminds me of a top ten list I read once on a wrestling humor site. It went something like:

Top Ten Lex Luger Quotes

10. Ow
9. Oww!
8. Owwww
7. Ow!
6. Owww!
5. Owwwww
4. Oww
3. Owwww!
2. Owww
1. Owwwww!
SerWolfe
Landjager








Since: 11.1.02
From: st louis

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Big Show hasn't been fortunate to reach the top of the card. He's lucky if he's a upper midcarder at times. The bookers have a tough time finding direction for him (or they are not trying). Half those times when he switched from week to week or show to show was basically being a tweener and riding the fence.



I am the JOBBER TO THE STARS. You better remember that.

Cardinals 9W 11L (as of 4-23) 4 losses in a row against the brewers? what the hell?
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 76 days
Last activity: 43 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18

To me, the phrase "multiple turns" can't be complete without the name of Barry Windham.

It's funny that he and Luger are two of the biggest "turners" in recent wrestling, since a good number of them came against each other, topped of course by Windham's turn on Luger to join the Four Horsemen.



Then I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform,
And tell you every detail of Caractacus's uniform;
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
Swordsman Yen
Frankfurter








Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

Since last post: 3886 days
Last activity: 3869 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Anybody wanna take a shot at documenting all of Luger's turns in chronological order? :)



"Say 'what' again. SAY 'WHAT' AGAIN! I dare you, I double dare you, motherf--ker! Say 'what' one more goddamn time!" -- Samuel L. Jackson, Pulp Fiction (1994)

"I tell you what, why don't you say 'what' if you like to sleep with your own sister." -- Undertaker, 4/1/02 RAW, putting an annoying fad in its place
Eradicator
Kolbasz








Since: 4.1.02
From: Chicago

Since last post: 21 days
Last activity: 21 days
#14 Posted on
Hmmm. I'll give a shot at the Luger. I'm pretty weak on the early stuff 'cause I didn't watch the NWA back then, and the later stuff may be off 'cause it got so stupid I lost track of it.


1. Heel in the Horsemen

2. Turned face leaving the Horsemen (?)

3. Heel- not sure on this one

4. Face- again not sure

5. Turned heel on Steamboat

6. Turned face to save Sting at the hands of the Horsemen

7. Turned heel when he won the WCW title and took Harley Race as his manager

8. Arrived in the WWF as a heel then turned face agianst Yokozuna

9. Came back to WCW as a tweener then turned full heel on Hogan at Halloween Havoc

10. Turned face via his friendship and tag team with Sting and his battles against the nWo

11. Turned heel joining the "elite" nWo in Jan of '99.

12. Turned face with the Millionaire's Club, or whatever they were called, aginast the New Blood

13. Turned heel- may have had something to do with the Magnificent Seven
Trineo
Mettwurst








Since: 19.3.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 4347 days
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#15 Posted on
I would have to think Big Show had more than 8 turns in the WWF. Those mentioned were the main ones, but there was a point, last summer I believe, when he would be a face or heel based upon what was needed in the given match. If you consider those (in a way I would) Show would have way more than 8 WWF turns.



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

Since last post: 4414 days
Last activity: 4324 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by LeechOfTheNight
    Taker: Was a heel back in '99 playing the whole Dead Man/satanic cult leader thing up. Returns from injury at Judgement Day 2000 as a face. Turned heel by making JR kiss Vince McMahon's ass back in November(damn, that's gotta one of the strangest turns ever). 2 turns.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm guessing you started watching the WWF in 1999, because you're missing a couple important points. Anyway, In late 98, Taker was face, but then turned heel with the start of the Ministry thing. They quickly turned the ENTIRE ministry face for some reason that escapes me (I think it was basically a lack of faces. There was Austin and DX and then like the rest of the fed was heel). Anyway the "greater power" angle hit and Taker was turned BACK heel again. So your grand total should actually be five.



--Jason Baldwin
Writer of Stuff About Comic Books
Nykk
Longanisa








Since: 26.1.02
From: Ohio

Since last post: 3917 days
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#17 Posted on
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm guessing you started watching the WWF in 1999, because you're missing a couple important points. Anyway, In late 98, Taker was face, but then turned heel with the start of the Ministry thing. They quickly turned the ENTIRE ministry face for some reason that escapes me (I think it was basically a lack of faces. There was Austin and DX and then like the rest of the fed was heel). Anyway the "greater power" angle hit and Taker was turned BACK heel again. So your grand total should actually be five.

The Ministry was never a face organization. The Undertaker had a heel vs. heel feud with the Bossman that culminated in that awful Hell in a Cell match at WrestleMania. Then they feuded with Vince McMahon, which was the storyline of the Undertaker trying to kidnap Stephanie, which turned Vince face. Then Shane took over the Corporation and merged it with the Ministry to form the Corporate Ministry, the most memorable incident being the Undertaker finally getting a hold of Stephanie after Backlash and trying to marry her on Raw, only to have Stone Cold save the day. Undertaker won the title from Stone Cold at Over the Edge, and after that the Greater Power angle started, and the Ministry stayed heel until they were disbanded a couple of months later.

These were the feuds during the tenure of the Ministry's existence...

Undertaker vs. Bossman
Undertaker vs. Vince (who turned face because of the feud)
Undertaker vs. Ken Shamrock
***Ministry merges with the Corporation***
Ministry vs. The Brood (who left the Ministry and turned face)
Undertaker vs. Stone Cold
Corporate Ministry vs. The Union (Mankind, Big Show, Shamrock and Test)
Undertaker vs. Rock
Stone Cold vs. Shane & Vince
Acolytes vs. The Hardy Boyz
Mideon vs. D'lo Brown

...and I believe sometime between Fully Loaded and SummerSlam, Shane McMahon disbanded the group.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 76 days
Last activity: 43 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.18

    Originally posted by Eradicator
    Hmmm. I'll give a shot at the Luger. I'm pretty weak on the early stuff 'cause I didn't watch the NWA back then, and the later stuff may be off 'cause it got so stupid I lost track of it.



To extend to the pre-WCW days, he was a heel in Florida originally (beat the now-departed Wahoo for the Southern title). He may have been turned face there in FLA before coming to Crockett, but I'm not 100 % sure about that.



Then I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform,
And tell you every detail of Caractacus's uniform;
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
Papercuts!
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

Since last post: 4414 days
Last activity: 4324 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by Nykk
    The Ministry was never a face organization.
Are you sure? going back through CRZ's recaps, I saw the Acolytes vs. Jarrett and Owen (non-corporation heels), Mideon vs. Bossman (corporation heel), and so on and so forth. Perhaps they were in that "tweener" stage or something, but I distinctly remember reading news stories at the time saying they were going to turn them face. Wouldn't it make sense that "Whomever" vs. McMahon's corporation (McMahon being the biggest heel in the company at the time) would make "whomever" the de facto face? Maybe the lines have been so blurred that it's just hard to tell. I dunno.



--Jason Baldwin
Writer of Stuff About Comic Books
Nykk
Longanisa








Since: 26.1.02
From: Ohio

Since last post: 3917 days
Last activity: 3312 days
#20 Posted on
Are you sure? going back through CRZ's recaps, I saw the Acolytes vs. Jarrett and Owen (non-corporation heels), Mideon vs. Bossman (corporation heel), and so on and so forth. Perhaps they were in that "tweener" stage or something, but I distinctly remember reading news stories at the time saying they were going to turn them face. Wouldn't it make sense that "Whomever" vs. McMahon's corporation (McMahon being the biggest heel in the company at the time) would make "whomever" the de facto face? Maybe the lines have been so blurred that it's just hard to tell. I dunno.

Heel vs. Heel matches were much more commonplace in that time period, as it was Vince "Shades of Gray" Russo who was booking. Basically, the Undertaker was targeting Vince by going after his family (which we found out later was Stephanie) by invading his home, burning Stephanie's stuffed bear, etc. It was meant to garner sympathy for Vince, and as a result we had Corporation vs. Ministry matches.

After WrestleMania, Vince either left the Corporation or was dethroned by Shane (can't remember) and turned face until the Greater Power angle. I don't remember any news stories about the Ministry turning face, but it was a long time ago. To me, the funniest thing about the angle is that at the time the IWC was stirring up all sorts of stuff about how the angle was bombing big time, yet it got some of the highest ratings the WWF ever had during the wrestling boom. Somebody must have liked it.
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