Originally posted by WeevilThis is kind of off topic but I'm thinking in terms of how realistic wresting is.
Do the biggest fighters dominate in shoot fights or can smaller guys beat the big ones.Are say 250 lb fighters ideal in terms of combining size and skill.
MMA is classed into weight, so there's heavyweight (in UFC it's up to 265, in Pride it's unlimited - there's also a super heavyweight division in some other promotions), and then there's classes for 205, 185, 170, 155 and then on down from there.
The two top heavyweights in the world are Fedor Emelianenko (233) and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (231), so 250 isn't necessarily ideal, but it's also not huge. Bigger fighters tend to gas quicker and aren't usually all that mobile, so they can be worn out easier in many instances. Probably the best 250-pound plus (or around that) fighter is Josh Barnett.
Size really isn't that big of a factor, unless it's a freakshow fight where they pit 350-pound Bob Sapp against a 180-pound guy, or if there's a significant height advantage that can give some fighters plenty of trouble. It's really just all about skill and conditioning, and the matchup.
To answer (what I think is) your actual question, when Sapp was in against Nogueira, the average person would look at the visual and say Nogueira's in trouble. But Nogueira armbarred Sapp and submitted him just because he was a far superior fighter. So in terms of bigger wrestlers beating smaller, arguably more skilled guys, it's just a basic connection that they make by what it looks like, I think. Bigger people are generally regarded as being tougher than smaller people, even if it's not the case.
The top draws(most popular/most well-known) in MMA are usually light-heavyweights, these days. In UFC, you've Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture (admittedly, a former heavyweight), and the current LHW champion, Vitor Belfort.
In PRIDE, you have the legendary Kazushi Sakuraba (180 lbs.), and current LHW champ, Wanderlei Silva.
The biggest guy I've seen in MMA competition is former WWE oddity Paulo "Giant" Silva.
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I think the whole "big guys are tougher" thinking comes from the bar-room brawl school of fighting. All other things being equal, big guys are gonna have more punching power, thus, if they connect, they're more likely to hurt badly/knock out a smaller.
Of course, all bets are off if one of the guys knows what he's doing.
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All awful jokes aside, there are so many different dimensions that go into a fight that oftentimes size does not even come into effect. Silva, a guy who's actually been increasing his training, has lost to some fighters who aren't even all that experienced at MMA (watch the replay in the US of Bushido on Sunday to see what I'm talking about). Other examples come to mind, but I won't get too in-depth.
To make a long story short, big guys need to be EXCELLENT strikers (which is very rare) in order to be consistently successful in MMA bouts, which doesn't happen all that often. If a taller fighter goes up against a submission specialist, it's going to end quickly because it makes it a lot easier to lock a guy into a leglock or armbar (think of it as sort of shooting a gun at a larger bullseye). And again, as somewhat pointed out before, bigger fighters tend to get winded a lot quicker.
Edit: By Silva I was referencing Giant Silva, and not Pride Middleweight Champion Wanderlei de Silva.
You forget that Nog spent 2 weeks in the Hospital after his fight with Sapp... Nog was lucky that Sapp gassed in the second and was able to lock in the arm bar. Almost any other heavyweight would've been done after Sapp's spike powerbomb.
Nowadays, weight does play a factor in fights. Fighters are now fighting on equal playing grounds (equally skilled in both stand-up and the ground)... Wanderley Silva probably wouldn't fair too well against Emelianenko (although he handled Crocop pretty well in their first matchup). It'll be interesting to see who Silva fightings this New Year's (either Nog or Crocop). Josh Barnett would probably dismantle W. Silva as well.
The fight game is always unpredictable... so, if the fighters are on equal grounds, advantage goes to the big guy.
Erm... the only pic with a wrestler that I have right now...
Originally posted by ScottChristTo answer (what I think is) your actual question, when Sapp was in against Nogueira, the average person would look at the visual and say Nogueira's in trouble. But Nogueira armbarred Sapp and submitted him just because he was a far superior fighter.
In Sapp's defense (as if Sapp needs me to defend him) Nogueira actually admitted that he was so eager to fight Sapp when he did because he was afraid to see what Sapp would be like when he got more experienced in the PRIDE ring. And while Nogueira did make Sapp tap out from an arm bar, he had both feet against Sapp's body, pulling on his arm with both arms and it still took him several seconds to get Sapp's arm extended.
It pains me to say this, but Goldberg was excellent doing commentary for that fight, thanks to Sapp using some pro wrestling style moves during the fight. First Nogueira tried to spear Sapp and Sapp just picked up him and basically piledrove him, then when Nogueira got the first choke hold on, Sapp just picked him up and powerbombed him to break it. Not to mention the point where Nogueira was on his back, kicking. Most fighters just walk away and let the guy get up so as not to get their legs broken from a kick. Instead, Sapp gets pissed off and jumps over Nogueira's legs and punches him in the head. Not that most of this is relevant, it's just one of my all time favourite fights (regardless of the sport.)
Originally posted by Manding0You forget that Nog spent 2 weeks in the Hospital after his fight with Sapp... Nog was lucky that Sapp gassed in the second and was able to lock in the arm bar. Almost any other heavyweight would've been done after Sapp's spike powerbomb.
After seeing Pride Critical Condition, I think Fedor would have taken it and laughed. But that is because Darth Fedor is not human, and is in fact the last cyborg left over from the USSR's Cold War research programs.
I doubt it, mainly because it would indicate Vince was ready to bow to pressure and put Hogan on the show. And, Piper match or no, if Vince were willing to have him there in any capacity Hogan would've jumped on it.