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The W - Basketball - Horry suspended for Games 5 & 6, but Stoudemire and Diaw both suspended for Game 5!
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It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.73
You tell me who gets the worst of this deal.

ESPN.com - NBA/PLAYOFFS2007 - Amare, Diaw suspended one game; Horry gets 2


    The pain from Robert Horry's hockey-style check on Steve Nash was felt on the day after by the Phoenix Suns.

    The Suns' hopes for a lenient ruling from the league office faded quickly Tuesday night, when it was announced that Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw would indeed receive one-game suspensions for leaving "the immediate vicinity of their bench" during the altercation that followed Horry's hit on Nash in the final minute of a series-tying Game 4 victory in San Antonio.

    Horry received a two-game suspension from the league for his flagrant foul on Nash and for striking Raja Bell above the shoulders in the subsequent fracas. The Suns, meanwhile, have lost two-thirds of the trio they use to guard Spurs star Tim Duncan after the NBA rejected their claims that the scuffling seen late Monday wasn't a full-blown fight and that Stoudemire and Diaw never got close to it anyway.


It's moments like this that I wish Dallas was still in it, because if this had happened to them, Mark Cuban would be screaming about how the NBA is fixed. But between the lack of foul calls on San Antonio, the slap on the wrist for Bruce Bowen over his shot to Nash's groin, and now the ridiculous Stoudemire/Diaw suspensions, I'm getting the feeling that someone's trying to stack the deck in favor of the Spurs.

(edited by It's False on 15.5.07 2234)



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Since: 2.1.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
The way they were talking on the radio last night, it doesn't sound like rule says "immediate one-game suspension", just "one-game suspension". If that is the case, I would have rather them suspended Stoudemire and Diaw for next year's season-opener, so as not to reward the Spurs for Horry provoking the (non-)melee with the hip-check. All this did is take something the Suns took 91 games to earn and seemingly toss it away in an instant.

Hopefully Nash goes for 35 and 18 tonight and the Suns pull it off.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

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Since: 11.12.01
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30


Boy, this really makes you want to root for the Suns, doesn't it? I mean, I already was cheering for the Suns, because everybody knows when you're a Celtics fan, you cheer for the exact opposite of your team. You know, a good one. I did get a nice new Celtics hooded sweatshirt this weekend though. The prices are being SLASHED around here, since nobody would be caught dead in Celtics' apparel.

Back on topic. I know the rule is black and white about leaving the bench, but the reason for putting the rule in the first place was so some bench player (Horry) couldn't take out the other teams good players. Now should Stoudamire and Diaw stayed on the bench? Yes, of course. But it feels lousy to me if the Suns lose two key players, while the Spurs lose someone who is not a top player.




CRZ had to edit my profile and close my table for me. I am a bad man.
Java
Goetta








Since: 2.1.02
From: Chandler, AZ

Since last post: 22 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.51
As a Suns fan in Phoenix, I cannot tell you how pissed off everyone is here. I heard about the suspensions when driving home from work yesterday (it was announced right after the radio station learned that David Stern had changed his travel plans from Phoenix to Cleveland for tonight's game... coward!!)

After stomping around the house for awhile, I went on NBA.com and wrote:

Mr. Stern and Mr. Jackson,

I would like to thank you for seriously jeopardizing my team's chances of winning an NBA titles with the suspensions of Amare Stoudamire and Boris Diaw. You took an indefensible play from the opposing team, and gave them a huge advantage because of it. Bravo!!! Using this logic, the Suns should trot out Pat Burke and have him body slam Tony Parker in from of the Spurs bench to see if anyone would take a step on the court. I understand the need for rules, but these is such as thing as intent. I believe you understand this concept well, as you have been interpreting actions by various players (Bruce Bowen, Jason Richardson, Baron Davis) throughout the past few days and giving (or not giving) punishment based on your discretion. To hide behind a rule at this point of time is cowardly. You have jeopardized the integrity of the game for 2 players who came NOWHERE near the incident, and actually REWARDED the team whose player started it. I am so beyond rage at this decision right now. I will continue to root for my team until they are eliminated, but I can assure you that I will watch NO OTHER GAMES other than ones involving the Suns this year. Obviously, I am powerless against the juggernaut that is your league office, but my own integrity can stay intact with my personal boycott.

---------------------

Anyway, I look forward to hearing a Phoenix crowd go apeshit tonight, and hope we can "smallball" our way to a victory...
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
I'm sorry, but "intent" is a poor arguement to use in this case. The rule is the rule. If those players had used their heads they wouldn't have been suspended. Why is it the leagues fault they stepped onto the court? Why are you not the least bit mad at them for breaking a very well known rule?

You can say the rule itself is stupid or poorly written. I'd probably agree. But to say the league had any choice but to do what they did is wrong. They let this go, then they'd have a pretty hard time suspending someone else next year. It would look like they were favoring these players and they can't have that.

Don't be a homer here. Say the rule is bad, but don't get all uppity that the league enforced a clearly written rule.
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.73
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    I'm sorry, but "intent" is a poor arguement to use in this case. The rule is the rule. If those players had used their heads they wouldn't have been suspended. Why is it the leagues fault they stepped onto the court? Why are you not the least bit mad at them for breaking a very well known rule?

    You can say the rule itself is stupid or poorly written. I'd probably agree. But to say the league had any choice but to do what they did is wrong. They let this go, then they'd have a pretty hard time suspending someone else next year. It would look like they were favoring these players and they can't have that.

    Don't be a homer here. Say the rule is bad, but don't get all uppity that the league enforced a clearly written rule.


Well said. The rule is still the rule...for now. But while he doesn't have the panache of Mark Cuban, Suns' owner Robert Sarver would like to fight this rule once the season's over.

    Originally posted by The Above Article
    Speaking specifically about the Horry-Nash incident, Suns owner Robert Sarver told reporters in Phoenix on Tuesday night: "The way this worked out for us, it was, I believe, extremely unfair. . . . The team that plays dirty should not be rewarded and the team that plays fair should not be penalized."

    Sarver added that the "first thing on my agenda" for next season will be making a push at ownership level to have the leave-the-bench rule re-examined. Sarver also said that NBA commissioner David Stern has canceled a schedule appearance in Phoenix for Wednesday night's Game 5.


I can also see how David Stern would be willing to cancel, as he can't really get a Bill Goldberg-type security escort on such short notice.




The Wisdom of Homsar:
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Java
Goetta








Since: 2.1.02
From: Chandler, AZ

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.51
I don't feel I am being a homer. The league interprets every rule they have, including this one, in the very same game. Tim Duncan came onto the court after the foul where Raja Bell undercut Francisco Elson on his dunk (which should have probably been a flagrant). He was out past the 3 point line. But the interpretation was that, although words were spoken, there was no altercation that took place, so the rule would not be enforced, despite him leaving the bench area.

Hell, go on ESPN and read the opinion of virtually all the writers there.

wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Java
    I don't feel I am being a homer. The league interprets every rule they have, including this one, in the very same game. Tim Duncan came onto the court after the foul where Raja Bell undercut Francisco Elson on his dunk (which should have probably been a flagrant). He was out past the 3 point line. But the interpretation was that, although words were spoken, there was no altercation that took place, so the rule would not be enforced, despite him leaving the bench area.

    Hell, go on ESPN and read the opinion of virtually all the writers there.




They aren't interpreting the rule any differently. There was a hard foul with Bell, but nothing else. That happens a million times in a game. Then watch the Horry foul, where everyone on the court came running and Horry threw an elbow. The two incidents are different and one clearly met the rule while the other didn't. Go find me an actual altercation where someone walked onto the court and was not suspended. I'm betting you can't because the league has never given an inch since putting this rule in. They can't then all of a sudden decide to not enforce it when clearly it was broken.

In listening to ESPN radio today the comments all seem to be the same. That they applied the rule as it's written, but they hate the rule itself. Again, this is fine but to suggest they didn't apply the rule correctly is just not right. People are upset because they want to see a great series and this hurts that. They are upset because they don't like the rule. But most are agreeing that it was applied as written and that's all that should be expected.
Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.92
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    The way they were talking on the radio last night, it doesn't sound like rule says "immediate one-game suspension", just "one-game suspension". If that is the case, I would have rather them suspended Stoudemire and Diaw for next year's season-opener, so as not to reward the Spurs for Horry provoking the (non-)melee with the hip-check.


My friend and I were discussing the same idea, except we thought the best solution would be to suspend Diaw and Stoudamire for the first game following the series. Therefore, if the Suns get eliminated Diaw and Amare are out for the first game next season, but if they beat the Spurs, they sit out Game 1 of the conference finals.

I understand those who say "Rules are rules", but I also think that's a stupid rule if the person leaving the bench stops before getting involved. I think that solution covers both viewpoints without penalizing them against Horry and his merry band of thugs.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.79
It happened in a different manner than usual, but Big Shot Bob might have helped his team to the next round.
Disregard the Spurs conspiracy theory, because the television people would rather see a team playing the style of basketball of the Suns advance than the Spurs who historically don't bring eyeballs to the TV sets.
Not worth starting another thread over, but, while the Bulls probably won't advance, they might have cost the Pistons the NBA Title. Screwing around with the Cavs series led to their demise against Miami last year, and giving up the easy path might cost them again this year. However, if the Bulls somehow pull the reverse sweep, does that just symbolize Chris Webber's career?

(edited by redsoxnation on 16.5.07 1441)


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Since: 6.1.04
From: New York

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    They aren't interpreting the rule any differently. There was a hard foul with Bell, but nothing else. That happens a million times in a game. Then watch the Horry foul, where everyone on the court came running and Horry threw an elbow. The two incidents are different and one clearly met the rule while the other didn't. Go find me an actual altercation where someone walked onto the court and was not suspended. I'm betting you can't because the league has never given an inch since putting this rule in. They can't then all of a sudden decide to not enforce it when clearly it was broken.


If you want to get into the letter of the law & define what an "altercation" is, then Stoudamire & Diaw should not be suspended. If you won't suspend Duncan for coming out on the floor because nothing came from it, then you should not suspend the two Suns players because nothing came from it.

An altercation implies that there were two sides fighting. All I saw is Horry hip check Nash, then forearm Bell. No one from the Phoenix side retaliated & therefore there was no "altercation", just some standing around by the Suns.

Sorry wmatistic, the league blew this one, & if the Suns end up losing this series it will leave a black eye & a shadow on the remainder of the NBA playoffs & eventual champion...
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
You call all their players on the floor rushing over and one chest bumping Horry, causing him to throw an elbow not an altercation?

Ok then. Players and refs had to hold each other back, restrain even. Did any of that happen with the other incident?

It's not that nothing came from it, it's that the rule says if there is an "altercation" you can't leave the bench area. Doesn't matter what happens next, if you stop halfway or whatever. Did you leave the bench during an altercation. You're talking about their intentions which aren't a part of the rule.

(edited by wmatistic on 16.5.07 1222)
Java
Goetta








Since: 2.1.02
From: Chandler, AZ

Since last post: 22 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.51
I think that is the point. The league has never defined what an "altercation" is for this rule. Now, I agree with you that what happened after the Horry foul was an altercation, and I (myself) would not have called what happened when Duncan came onto the floor an altercation.

But, now we are not looking at a black and white rule, we are determining what was an altercation and what was not, and then going from there.

This is the whole point. While everyone is treating it as a black and white law (and admittedly, as NBA rules go, it is much closer than most), there was INTERPRETATION done to enforce it. This is before even starting into using that thing known as common sense, where I would hope they would review the rule in the post season.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.92
There's plenty of interpreting to be done. Let's not forget that there's no solid definition of "bench area" written anywhere. I've only seen the incident via replays so I don't have a feel for exactly how it went down live. However, I'm not so sure that Amare left the "bench area," especially if he was going to be going into the game soon in the first place.

I think it's just a ridiculously poorly written rule, and I can't believe this sort of thing hasn't happened before. Very unfortunate, and now I have even MORE reason to hate Robert Horry.

- StingArmy
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.73
This is probably the third time in recent weeks that I've brought up Bill Simmons, but he absolutely knocks it out of the park in today's column.

ESPN.com - Page 2 - Common sense vs. the NBA rulebook

An absolute must-read that highlights everything wrong with the Stoudemire/Diaw suspensions (the problem isn't the enforcement of the rule, it's the rule itself) and how the suspensions bring to light the NBA's much larger problem, especially as it relates to one Bruce Bowen. Stoudemire and Diaw can get suspended for walking a few inches from the bench and Kobe Bryant can get suspended for throwing an elbow that wasn't even called as a foul, but Bowen can blatantly kick Steve Nash in the groin and get a slap on the wrist? What a load of crap!

And for anyone who cares, San Antonio won Game 5 thanks to a game-winning 3-pointer from one Bruce Bowen. Yeah, fuck you, David Stern.

EDIT: I couldn't resist. I just had to post this image. His face says it all.



(edited by It's False on 17.5.07 0828)



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Quezzy
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Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.62
This ruling is not a black eye on the league. It should be a black eye on Amare Stoudamire and Boris Diaw. They blew it. They got themselves suspended. Regardless of whether it's a judgment call or not it would all be irrelevant if Stoudamire and Diaw stay on the bench which they should both know they have to do.

I don't know why everyone likes the Suns. Yeah they win a lot of games and score a lot of points but I don't see how they are likable at all. Steve Nash is overrated, they're all whiney crybabies when they have nobody to blame but themselves. Last night the Suns had a chance to win game five and make the suspensions irrelevant but they blew it again. They're obviously a soft team and the Spurs are in their head. The Suns just aren't Championship material, neither are the Mavericks.



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