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The W - Baseball - HOF Ballots Mailed
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jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 107 days
Last activity: 3 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.04
Apparently, the ballots have been mailed (yankees.lhblogs.com), and the list includes:

Harold Baines
Jay Bell
Bert Blyleven
David Cone
Andre Dawson
Ron Gant
Mark Grace
Rickey Henderson
Tommy John
Don Mattingly
Mark McGwire
Jack Morris
Dale Murphy
Jesse Orosco
Dave Parker
Dan Plesac
Tim Raines
Jim Rice
Lee Smith
Alan Trammell
Greg Vaughn
Mo Vaughn
Matt Williams

I'd be utterly shocked if Rickey didn't get right in, and I think it's high time for them to finally vote Rice in.
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DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 8 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.45
God, I hope Bert finally gets in as well as Morris. But it wont happen. McGwire will be a while but will eventually.



Perception is reality
Lise
Mrs. Guru








Since: 11.12.01

Since last post: 427 days
Last activity: 3 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.78
Rickey!!!! He has to get in. I mean the man lives to play baseball. He's going to get into heaven sliding in safe under the pearly gates.
djp
Morcilla








Since: 16.2.07
From: 3rd Floor, NW window

Since last post: 138 days
Last activity: 24 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.53
    Originally posted by Lise
    Rickey!!!! He has to get in. I mean the man lives to play baseball. He's going to get into heaven sliding in safe under the pearly gates.


And look *totally* pissed off while doing it.

There are a lot of borderliners on there - perhaps there always are but this seems to have very few shoe-ins. Big Mac? I don't think he ever will. Kind of surprised to see Greg Vaughn on there. Maybe if this were the strike out HOF.
Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 14 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
DJP, if you played a sufficient number of seasons you get on the ballot the first year you're eligible--it doesn't mean that anyone thinks Greg Vaughn (or, say, Dan Plesac) is actually worthy of consideration.

I agree with JFKFC--Henderson is a shoo-in, and Rice deserves to finally get in. McGwire is an interesting case--there's no question that if you just go by what he did on the field, he deserves to get in, but what is a question is how much to take into account his steroid use. We don't know what he actually did, but it's certainly possible to come to the conclusion that if he never had taken the stuff, he wouldn't be a Hall of Famer. Do the voters come to that conclusion, and, if so, do they keep him out? I have a feeling that a number of other players, such as Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmiero, will be very interested in seeing how McGwire fares. I'd be inclined to vote no on McGwire, but it's a very difficult decision. (OTOH, I would have no trouble voting for Barry Bonds, because even if I take out all of the boost he may have gotten from steroids, he's still a great player.) I don't think I vote for anyone else, although there are some close calls.

It's interesting to see Dale Murphy on the list and ponder how someone managed to be a two-time MVP, and then fall to a level that he isn't really being considered at all. I don't even recall him having a major injury or other problem that would explain it.
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.40
I am so torn.

I am completely not impartial with this class of players. These are the baseball stars of my youth and early adulthood. They are always going to be bigger to me than they are in real life.

Rickey is the only one I know for sure should be in.

The following are guys I wouldn't mind getting in:

Raines
Dawson
McGwire

Was Mattingly good enough? I remember thinking he was a stud - I always wanted Don to inch out Boggs for the batting title.

I watched too many Braves games on TBS to know whether Murphy was actually good.




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KJames199
Scrapple
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Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.28
Everyone from the softball episode of the Simpsons should be in the Hall of Fame. Including Homer and Mr. Burns.



JK: LJ, S&H, KMA, FB
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 342 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.01

Note about Jim Rice, who is generally thought of as a hitter only.

He played over 1500 games as a LF, his lifetime range factor of 2.10 is well over the average LF of that time period (1.84). Plus his FA is slightly above the average for that time.





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djp
Morcilla








Since: 16.2.07
From: 3rd Floor, NW window

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.53
    Originally posted by Guru Zim


    Was Mattingly good enough? I remember thinking he was a stud - I always wanted Don to inch out Boggs for the batting title.


He was very good defensively, so that may bolster his chances since his offense was never 'great' at any point, although he had several fine seasons. He compares well with Ryne Sandburg, but at a different position.
The King of Keith
Lap cheong








Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.93
Mark Grace. My favorite baseball player of all time. Rickey deserves it, but I wish Mark Grace would go in too. I don't think he has the stats, but I'd love to see him there.



Hail to the Redskins!
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 8 days
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.45
    Originally posted by djp
      Originally posted by Guru Zim


      Was Mattingly good enough? I remember thinking he was a stud - I always wanted Don to inch out Boggs for the batting title.


    He was very good defensively, so that may bolster his chances since his offense was never 'great' at any point, although he had several fine seasons. He compares well with Ryne Sandburg, but at a different position.


And not good enough, long enough. Injuries hurt him but he was a great player.



Perception is reality
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 342 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.01

    Originally posted by The King of Keith
    Mark Grace. My favorite baseball player of all time. Rickey deserves it, but I wish Mark Grace would go in too. I don't think he has the stats, but I'd love to see him there.


See, Grace is my least favorite player of all time. And, no, he isn't very close to being a HoF player, despite the "most hits of the nineties" stat.

I'd like to see Dawson in, but it doesn;t look good.



As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
OFFICIAL THREE-MONTH COUNT: 112 pounds on March 9, 2005
OFFICIAL SIX-MONTH COUNT: 142 pounds on June 8, 2005
OFFICIAL ONE YEAR COUNT: 187 pounds on December 7, 2005
As of 2/27/06: 202 pounds "I've lost a heavyweight"
As of 7/31/06: 224 pounds
As of 10/31/07: Still 217 down!
As of 5/18/08: Still 217 down!
Now announcing for the NBWA!
*2008 NBWA Personality of the Year*
www.IlliniHQ.com home of DWS Sportsnight PODCASTS, the E-Files and downstate radio home of thecubsfan!
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.63
It would be fitting to see Henderson and Raines (the best and arguably second-best leadoff men of all time) go into the HOF at the same time. If I had a vote, I'd go for those two plus Blyleven and McGwire.
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 460 days
Last activity: 420 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.66
Here's the percentage of the vote received last year by players who are again on the ballot, along with the number of years of eligibility remaining after this year.

Jim Rice-72.2% (0)
Andre Dawson-65.9% (7)
Bert Blyleven-61.9% (3)
-
Lee Smith-43.3% (8)
Jack Morris-42.9% (5)
Tommy John-29.1% (0)
Tim Raines-24.3% (13)
Mark McGwire-23.6% (12)
-
Alan Trammell-18.2% (7)
Don Mattingly-15.8% (6)
Dave Parker-15.1% (2)
Dale Murphy-13.8% (4)
Harold Baines-5.2% (12)

Wikipedia says no player has received entry in his final year of eligibilty since Ralph Kiner in 1975. But on the other hand only two players since 1975 have received more than 50% of the vote in any one year and failed to make it in eventually. Rice and Blyleven will be close, and Dawson will probably get in eventually.

The middle group (excluding John) has a chance, but they're probably at least 5 years away. Most players who eventually get elected got 40% of the vote in their first year, but Sutter and Gossage, (and Rice and Blyleven if they get in) seem to indicate that nowadays players can gain that support in the years after they retire.
Lee Smith seems the front runner, but we will have to see if his percentages increase in the next couple elections. Some players like Steve Garvey are at about 40% for the entire time and never see a bump in percentages.
Tommy John is in his final year of eligibility, and would require an unprecedented bump in percentage to be elected.

The bottom group has basically no shot.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 136 days
Last activity: 102 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.23

I heard Russo say today that no one that has gotten over 70% at least once has been denied getting elected.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
The Affirmation, Baby Blog
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 107 days
Last activity: 3 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.04
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by djp
        Originally posted by Guru Zim


        Was Mattingly good enough? I remember thinking he was a stud - I always wanted Don to inch out Boggs for the batting title.


      He was very good defensively, so that may bolster his chances since his offense was never 'great' at any point, although he had several fine seasons. He compares well with Ryne Sandburg, but at a different position.


    And not good enough, long enough. Injuries hurt him but he was a great player.
It was the bad back. There was a six year stretch that he was arguably the best player in baseball. He had as good of a glove as Keith Hernandez, and hit for average and power. Then, his back gave out and while he was still a productive hitter, no way was he an all-time great. My favorite player ever, it hurts a little to know that he's probably just not a HOF'er. Probably close to the same situation as Mo Vaughn - just a dominant hitter, power and average, and then poof, gone like Keyser Soze.
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 19 min.
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.74
    Originally posted by KJames199
    Everyone from the softball episode of the Simpsons should be in the Hall of Fame. Including Homer and Mr. Burns.


Even Steve Sax (and his run-in with the law)?

Ken Griffey's grotesquely swolen jaw would fit on a seperate plaque...

My friends and I are very excited to see Rickey talk about himself in the third person in his acceptance speech.



"I don't fight people with the fallopian tubes."
Joseph Ryder
Head cheese








Since: 19.3.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 1207 days
Last activity: 740 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.15
Blyleven, Raines, and The Man of Steal are no-brainers. McGwire too if you don't care about the roids.

Jim Rice's bat compares poorly to Will Clark's, whose bat compares very favorably to Don Mattingly's (and Mark Grace's).

I don't understand people's fascination with Morris.



I run
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.37
    Originally posted by Joseph Ryder
    I don't understand people's fascination with Morris.


I think it's based on his playoff record. Of course, people tend to forget that he was terrible in the playoffs for the Blue Jays, and that even his 20 game season with Jays was a weak season carried by their high power offense.

Morris and Kelly Gruber are the only Jays from the 92-93 seasons that I disliked, which disqualifies them from my usual "support the Jays" agruments for the HoF. As such, I can only recommend Rickey Henderson and David Cone (I *loved* Cone when he was a Jay).

EDIT: Let's be clear. My anti-Morris bias is completely devoid of a logical basis.

(edited by hansen9j on 5.12.08 0339)

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BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

Since last post: 280 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.46
Morris didn't just play one bad season with the Blue Jays. He had HOF years with the Twins and his real team, the Detroit Tigers. He needs to get in, along with Dawson and Bert and Alan Trammell. Rickey Henderson getting in is a no-brainer, even to people who aren't Rickey Henderson.




Michigan against the SEC: 20-5-1 (7-3 in bowl games)

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missed the game today, that was pretty funny yesterday, glad he's not hurt.
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