Wasn't it just about 4 months ago that Steph was involved in the losing end of a "Loser leaves the WWF for all time forever and ever amen" match? That level of brazen disregard for the collective memory of the fanbase is huge even for the WWF.
Isn't the Internet Wrestling Community coming down just a little bit too hard on Young Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley?
I mean... she's just 25 years of age and has an incredible responsibility within the WWF and, more importantly, WWFE. Plus, it can't be easy being Vince's "DADDY'S LITTLE GIRL!," can it?
And as far as her on-screen persona goes? Well... last time I checked, people were supposed to hate "the bad guys." Judging from fan reaction on "TV" and smark reaction on the World Wide Web, she's accomplished that. Furthermore, my dad hates her and he doesn't even watch Sports Entertainment.
To me, that sounds like she's very good at her job.
Originally posted by spf2119Wasn't it just about 4 months ago that Steph was involved in the losing end of a "Loser leaves the WWF for all time forever and ever amen" match? That level of brazen disregard for the collective memory of the fanbase is huge even for the WWF.
No, she was on the losing end of a "Loser gets thier company forced out of buisness" match.
The implication was that Vince would never be willing to let Stephanie or Shane back anyway. Well, that was half true, I suppose.
Isn't the Internet Wrestling Community coming down just a little bit too hard on Young Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley
Heel heat is one thing. "Get the hell off of my home planet, abomination" heat is not.
That angle made my night. I know it could go either way really, but it was an interesting study on HHH'S character, because this time he was in his "Laugh at other people's misery" mode that he was in when they did Foley's retirement and not in the "vagina and penis humour" DX Hunter mode.
And what the HELL was up with that ending? Did someone forget to run out, or. . .?
Originally posted by TheSargeTo me, that sounds like she's very good at her job.
The famed "X-pac sucks" theory. It's not that she's being very good at her job by making people hate HER. She's making people hate the WWF. When she comes out or appears on the Entertainmentron there's a noticeable groan. And that's just from me.
It was the same thing with X-Pac before he went away. He just got overexposed and in a completely unbelievable manner. He got thrown down our throats when we were already sick of him, and the crowds went from giving him heel heat to giving him HATE heat. There's a difference.
And that's what you have to understand about Steffie. It's not heel heat. It's HATE heat. It's "Get her off the Entertainmentron or out of the ring" heat. It's bad for the product, not good for it.
...Shit. I think the chance of Stephanie leaving RAW as the WWF Champion is almost zero. Doesn't matter if she's the idiot in the back writing this crap or not-- Vince knows better than to allow his daughter to win the title.
I agree with Stephanie hands-down (and as a matter of fact, I said it out loud once the stipulation came into effect)-- if Triple H is the man to get Stephanie the hell of my TV forever, I will bow down and worship the ground he stands on. (Well, not literally, but he'll definitely be my favorite Superstar from this time forward).
But let's be realistic about this, lady and gentlemen. Even if that match goes down with Stephanie leaving the WWF, do you really think that it'll end up being a permanent thing? Let Us Take You Back for a refresher course on “loser must leave” history, eeef you weeel.
When the Alliance went out of business as a result of the Survivor Series decision, everyone employed by the Alliance was supposed to leave forever, with the exception of Test (who gained a year of immunity). The night after the PPV, Shane and Stephanie, Alliance co-owners, came down to the ring at Vince's request. Shane was a class act, saying, “Congratulations. You won. I lost. And I lost to the better man.” He walked proudly out of the arena. Stephanie, on the other hand, started her whining and bitching routine, and Vince had security throw her out of the building.
Later, Paul Heyman thought Vince had given him his job back, but he actually asked him to the ring so he could fire him right to his face. Heyman attacked Ross and was likewise escorted out by security.
Shane still has yet to return. But Stephanie, I believe, came back sometime between Vengeance and Survivor Series. Heyman also came back, last night. And a good deal of the former Alliance Superstars were given contracts by either Vince McMahon or Ric Flair.
In WCW in 1999, Curt Hennig lost a retirement match to Buff Bagwell, only to return in very, VERY short order.
In the WWF, Mick Foley lost a retirement match to Triple H at No Way Out 2000, only to return and main-event at WrestleMania the very next month.
In WCW, Kevin Nash lost a retirement match to Hulk Hogan at Road Wild 1999, only to return before the end of the year to re-form the New World Order.
In 1992, Ric Flair lost a “loser must leave the WWF” match to Curt Hennig. It took him nine years, but he eventually returned as well.
Hell. At WrestleMania 2 (or maybe WrestleMania III), Rowdy Roddy Piper supposedly wrestled his “last match”. And hell-- he's still wrestling for the XWF!
I can only remember two wrestlers who, once forced out in a retirement match, stayed out. Kevin Sullivan lost a retirement match to Chris Benoit at Bash at the Beach '97 and never wrestled again to my knowledge-- although he did accompany the Varsity Club when they re-formed. And Goldberg, after losing his retirement match at Sin '01, never stepped foot in the ring again (and apparently never will).
See what I'm getting at? Even if Stephanie does lose this match, is anybody really so delusional that they think she'll be gone for good? And even if she does stay off my TV for an extended period of time, she'll still be the idiot in the back writing this crap, and that's reason enough for me to want to shoot her off into space at times.
“If my answers frighten you, Vince, then perhaps you should cease asking scary questions.”
--Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson), Pulp Fiction
Hypothetically, if the undisputed champion lost the belts to a non-wrestler who couldn't defend them, the undisputed title might have to be split into it's component parts thus making two seperate World titles for whatever federations that could claim ownership of them. If the draft is taking place the same night as the Steph-Triple H match then putting the belts on Steph, through whatever nefarious means, may be a reality that we might have to consider. As shitty an idea as that is, it beats "I get 50% of everything you own, including a belt" on the makingsensometer.
"Nobody enjoys a good time more than I do, but this business of yours is as legitimate as a three-legged donkey...which of course is illegitimate because as we all know donkeys have four legs."
BucsFan: I'd expect the title match to kick off the second hour next week, and the draft to dominate the overrun. Also, when the champion loses a belt, it's easy... he goes into the roster that the challenger was a part of.
The only possible ending I can see to this: Jericho walks out on Stephanie and HHH pins her to get her off TV, then Jericho makes challenges for REAL title defenses, leading to a series of great PPV matches where Jericho gets to make a name for himself without being bogged down by divorce insanity.
This would have been SO MUCH BETTER if Jericho had kept the belts... then we could have done a deal by which Triple H has to choose between the titles (by pinning Jericho) or getting Stephanie off TV (by pinning her).
CRZ NOTABLE QUOTABLE OF THE MONTH: UNDERTAKER: The Hell you were threatened with as a child is no longer an option, it is a reality - a living, breathing reality. And you all are right in the middle of it. Yes, Hell has relocated to Earth. CRZ: My friends, *Hell* is watching THIS crap take place before my eyes. -- WWF Raw is War, 1/11/99
HA! That would've been beautiful! Even *I* would love Triple H forever if he pinned Steph instead of Jericho! But now, it's all about the HHH/Steph thing all over again. HHH doesn't have to pin Jericho to keep his titles, so the only person he'd want to pin is Steph, and then keep from getting pinned at all. Bah, this angle sucks. I hope Jericho, Angle, Kane, UT and the Rock all end up on RAW. Please god, let it be so.
Somehow methinks Steph might have either (1) screwed things up or (2) accidentally tipped us off last night. Triple H was taking pains to say "if you lose Monday" while Steph once phrased it as "if you pin me Monday." To me, big difference -- losing is her or Jericho getting pinned. Her way, if Jericho is pinned, she can claim she stays because she only said if SHE was pinned she'd leave.
My big fear with that is that it's going to end up with that swerve of Steph rejoining HHH, that it was a fake divorce for whatever reason to fool the fans. She'll help HHH keep the belts, turning him heel and Jericho face. Why? Who knows.
The only way I can see that angle being saved, if they DO go with it, is Jericho coming out the next week with a copy of the contract saying that he thought something might happen, and he amended the contract from Steph's original "if I get pinned" to instead "if my team loses, I'll leave the WWF" -- and she signed off on it without noticing.
So, she's out of the WWF and Jericho is the one who put her out. HUGE face heat for that, and ramps up his newly turned feud with HHH.
Well, I interpreted exactly as you have, Steph has to be the one to be pinned in order for her to leave (and which makes me fear that if Steph happens to pin Triple H, she would be the champion). I thought that was made clear.
Whether or not Steph draws real heel heat or "X-Pac sucks" heat is open to debate. One thing I do know is that her segments have really sucked (and have been too numerous considering the low quality) over the last month. I have a feeling if she could separate her writer-self from her character-self, she would have removed herself off the air due to lack of creative direction (like they have done with others in the past). However, doing that is almost impossible. Really a good rule that is seldom applied would be if you are a writer/booker, then you shouldn't also be an on-air personality. I think it can turn into too much of a conflict of interest.
Maybe Steph has just decided to concentrate on writing the show. If that is the case, I hope instead of a stupid swerve, they just have Triple H simply pin Steph and send her packing. I don't see Jericho being responsible making any more sense than any swerves by Steph to join Triple H, since Steph really hasn't done anything to betray Jericho. It only makes sense if Jericho perceived he was getting swerved, and counter-swerved. That's too many swerves. No, Triple H pins Steph is quick, easy, and doesn't require any illogical explanations.
It's easy to think that there is no chance Steph is actually leaving the air. But there is one hope. Shane hasn't appeared on the air since the Raw after Invasion. If he can stay off, maybe Steph can too.
Originally posted by Texas KellyThe only possible ending I can see to this: Jericho walks out on Stephanie and HHH pins her to get her off TV, then Jericho makes challenges for REAL title defenses, leading to a series of great PPV matches where Jericho gets to make a name for himself without being bogged down by divorce insanity.
You sir, are an optimist. I sure hope your idea comes to fruition. But I'd be much more willing to bet on Steph walking out with both belts than on that scenario...which is pretty much my problem with the WWF these days.
It would be just my luck with having Smackdown tickets for the Philly show next week (damn you WWF for giving Smackdown to Vince "Sports Entertainment" McMahon), that Steph will lose on Monday, and then say that she would only have to stay off of Raw. Then Vince can bring her out on Smackdown at the First Union Center, and we can all groan our disapproval once again. Then again if she does leave next week, we will probably get the debut at Smackdown of HHH's younger brother "Brian Gewertz."
Can anyone recommend the greastest Japanese matches for someone who has never been exposed to it? I have read about Misawa, Takwada, Hayabusa, Tarzan Goto, but have no what matches best represent the strong style mostly seen in ALL Japan Pro Wrestling.