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The W - Movies & TV - Heroes 3x1, 3x2 Second Coming / Butterfly Effect
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Twoflower
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Since: 4.1.02

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
...wow.

That was really, uh. Kinda bad.

I know Heroes is known for too much obsession with TWEESTS and for characters being conveniently stupid enough not to solve problems using the means at their disposal, with Peter being suspect number one in that regard, but this one took the cake in both departments.

Tweests, we've got 5-6 episodes worth of content crammed into two episodes. My only guess is that they're overcompensating for the unpopularly slow start season two had by making season three move a lightning pace, with rapid fire development, reversals of fortune, captures, releases, threats, escapes, etc. No way Sylar finally getting his hands on Claire wouldn't have more ramp-up, otherwise. Same goes for Sylar being captured AND released AND re-aligned in the span of a single episode.

Character stupidity, we have Mohinder the scientist testing an untested formula on himself so he can play Jeff Goldblum in The Fly, we have Nathan suddenly becoming a bible thumper just because he was raised from the dead like, oh, the LAST TIME he was raised from the dead, and we've got Peter being Peter. Even Future Peter was basically Peter, well known for completely forgetting he can teleport, walk through walls, use telekinesis, etc.

Case example: Nathan's dying. Claire's in Odessa. "You're too far away," sayeth Peter. Forgetting he can teleport there, grab her, bring her over, blood transfer, teleport back, done.

And let's not forget the Luke I Am Your Father moment at the end. The Petrelli family tree is looking more like a vine every day...

The whole thing was really kinda painful and awkward to watch. I don't know if I'm gonna continue with Season 3... the folks I watch with were really turned off by the bad writing tonight and are pondering other uses of an hour every monday night. We'll give it another ep, but they gotta slow down, stop, and THINK about what they're doing. Characters and writers alike.
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Since: 3.1.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.28
Ladies and gentlemen, the following public service message is brought to you by your friends from D-Generation X, who would like to remind each and every one of you that if you're not down with that, we've got two words for you...

I really couldn't disagree more, twoflower. I agree that they jammed a lot into these two hours, and I agree it's likely overcompensation for the criticism they took for Season 2's slow start, but I also think that they'll ease off the gas pedal a bit for the next good while so people can catch their breath and they can fill in the gaps. Maya really remains the only actively bad/useless character for me, as I've always liked Mohinder and he now has a definitive purpose (playing God is BAD! BAD! BAD!). Everything else is either working for me or something I'm willing to show patience with (such as Matt's vision quest).

    Originally posted by Twoflower
    Case example: Nathan's dying. Claire's in Odessa. "You're too far away," sayeth Peter. Forgetting he can teleport there, grab her, bring her over, blood transfer, teleport back, done.

A lot of people (yourself included) are missing that that was Future Peter on the phone with Claire. Present Peter was already stuck in the villain-whose-name-I-can't-remember's body when Matt went into the bathroom. And Future Peter wouldn't have wanted Nathan to be alive at that point, because the whole point of what he was doing was to kill Nathan so that he couldn't ruin the future for the empowered. So that moment at least wasn't stupidity.

    Originally posted by Twoflower
    And let's not forget the Luke I Am Your Father moment at the end. The Petrelli family tree is looking more like a vine every day...

Thing is, I've suspected for a long while now that Angela & Sylar were related somehow. It doesn't make sense in the show's existing continuity that two non-empowered humans would mate and create Sylar, and Angela is WAY more evil IMO than they script her to appear being. Thus it's logical, IMO, that she's his mother, and it's actually a good thing, because at the pace he was going they would run out of things to do with him by midseason. The storyline possibilities of Sylar under Angela's thumb are actually very interesting to me.



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Weisswurst








Since: 13.7.08

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
I really hope that Mama Petrelli was speaking metaphorically when she told Sylar she was his mother. That would be just about the worst thing that they could do as far as I'm concerned.

It was OK, but it does seem to me that they are running out of steam and getting to the point of piling on. There is another guy who paints the future now and powers are just coming straight out of the justice league. Daphne is the Flash and Mohinder has Super Strength - Ye HAA!!!Eleventy one


Peter The Hegemon
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Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
I don't disagree with much of what you said, Twoflower. Beyond that, I don't know WHAT to think. There were certainly some fun/exciting moments. But at the end, I was like...what just happened? I don't know if that's that so much happened so fast, or that it was hard to make sense of, or if I'm just forgetting things from last season. I guess I'm sort of hopeful it's the latter, but I don't really believe it.

So Nathan and Niki have both been essentially rebooted as different characters. (Wasn't Niki, like, killed?) Maya and Suresh have started screwing because, uh, they were in the same room. Linderman's in Nathan's head, or something. There are two Peters running around--maybe three, depending on how you count. I don't know, all very confusing. Then there's Hiro, who seems to be even more rebooted: the Hiro I know would never be bummed that there was no crisis sufficient to relieve his boredom and/or stroke his ego, and I don't see him so easily disobeying his father's last wishes, either. (Guard something? That's boring! Waaaaaah! When does stuff start blowing up again?)

My favorite example of things happening WAY too fast for no reason: Suresh, for no apparent reason, suddenly decides it's time to give up, because he doesn't think there's any remote chance he'll find the key to his research. Then he notices that Maya's powers manifest when she's upset or angry, and PRESTO!, he not only gets the idea that adrenaline might be the key to everything (despite the fact that NONE of the other heroes, except possibly Niki/Jessica, have shown any connection between their powers and stress), he practically starts whipping up the first batch of Superserum before he's finished explaining it to Maya. That's one heck of a revelation!

Oh, and Peter can't think of a way to teleport back in time and stop the Mutant Holocaust without killing his brother, and Hiro can't just go back in time a little and get his formula back (or just not open the safe in the first place)...but Hiro *can*, apparently, set his internal Wayback Machine for "The Precise Moment When It All Goes To Pot, Whenever That Is". And didn't he used to not be able to be in the same place as his past/future self at the same time?

How many times during the episode did you know precisely what was going to happen next? The line "opportunity doesn't just come knocking on your door" was as anvilicious as can be, and there were plenty of moments where I said something like, "it's the Mona Lisa, isn't it?" and I was right. And I'm not the sort who tries to do that.

OK, I think I've pretty firmly come down on the side of yup, that was bad. I know I liked *some* things. The bit about whether Sylar (as fans have long suspected) ate people's brains was good. The conflict between Hiro and Ando had potential, I guess. I'm sure there were other things, but at the moment I'm just down on it. Maybe someone with a more positive view can swing me the other way?

(edited by Peter The Hegemon on 23.9.08 0048)
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 79 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.93
I'm with Twoflower. This show is a dozen kinds of ass.

Horny Spider-Mohinder took the worst character on television and made him even more unwatchable.

Of all the stupid shit, and I could write a list as long as this two parter, I think the stupidest shit that bugged me the most this time around what the complete nonsense of the chyron. There's no rhyme or reason why they'll put title cards on the screen. ""Peter Petrelli's apartment - Manhattan." "Maya and Mohinder - Manhattan" I think my favorite was "Matt Parkman - Location Unknown". Unknown? What the fuck does that mean? The writers don't even know where he is?

Wait, no, the best was when Sylar was doing his John Travolta Staying Alive walk down the suburb nodding at people off frame, and then the title card reads "Part Two." Part two of what? The second half of his strut continued from hour one?

What about governor's hilarious about face? "I like this Nathan Petrelli. He's our man, right, woman I'm boning?" Then cut to commercial and onto hour two. Governor: "Nathan Petrelli? Hell no. He's a Jesus freak. No way am I endorsing him."

I've also never seen a show with so many characters just lurking in the shadows waiting for their cue to pop into frame. Sylar in Claire's house, Malcolm McDowell in Nathan's hospital room. Lots and lots of lurking.

I do like the super speed girl.

And good lord, does William Katt look old and prunish. The Greatest American Hero did not age well at all.

Oh, and as a Veronica Mars fan, I did enjoy the level 5 reunion with Elle and Weevil from VM in the cell yelling at Sylar to "leave her alone!" Makes me want to watch my Veronica Mars DVDs and indulge in a good television program.

(edited by John Orquiola on 22.9.08 2201)
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.94
Bruce Boxlightner AND Weevil?

Keep bringing the awesome cameos, Heroes!



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EddieBurkett
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Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.91
The problem with Heroes is that they had one arc planned for season one, which they executed reasonably well, and then nothing set up for after that. That's why season two was so disappointing -- they had all these characters that had pretty much outlived their usefulness, and any sorts of interactions felt shoehorned. Now, they're doing it again, except in response to last season, they pushed the reboot button REALLY hard.

Shouldn't future Peter have disappeared or something once he shot Nathan? Isn't he stuck here, since if he went in to the future, it would be the Butterfly-Effected future and not where he came from? Isn't that why Peter can never get his Irish chick back from future Quarantined New York?

I like that they immediately resolved who shot Nathan. I like that they FINALLY explained what the hell Sylar does to people's brains. I'm tempted to go back and re-watch seasons 1 and 2 to see if Sylar comprehends the implication that Claire might survive his brain-touching.

Just how many dead people did they revive? I almost though they'd axe Elle, but her repulsion to Sylar was cool. Did Sylar steal Hiro and Suresh's brains? I liked that Hiro's dad acknowledged that Hiro might open the safe. Still, Hiro's 'boredom' was just stupid. And what the hell was Suresh saying at the end of the Hour One wrap up? Apparently super powers also make you quite high...

This show needs more Claire and Bennett. They are the heart of the show. I agree that its silly to do Isaac 2.0, but Park-man's vision quest looks amusing.



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SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.49
The Veronica/Weevil reunion made this episode an automatic five stars for me, even though most of it sucked pretty hard.

    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    I like that they FINALLY explained what the hell Sylar does to people's brains.

Yeah, but they really didn't. We see him look at and tinker around with Claire's brain, but we still don't know how that gives HIM the power. What does he do to his own brain. Telekinesis doesn't explain it, since that too was a stolen power.

I'm not out or anything, but I would really appreciate some fat-trimming. No more Maya. No more Mohinder (Though the implications of his storyline are intriguing...). No more Parkman. No more Nikki. It's PAINFULLY obvious that they don't really have anything to do with them. The twists with the latter three smack of a bit of desperation.

(edited by SchippeWreck on 22.9.08 2336)


"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
whatever
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Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.26
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    I'm with Twoflower. This show is a dozen kinds of ass.
Amen, brother!

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Horny Spider-Mohinder took the worst character on television and made him even more unwatchable.
TESTIFY! Thank God I was busy for the first half hour or so so I could use that valueable buffer time to FFWD thru his unwatchable scenes. "Oh, I've just conveniently thrown Molly away, let me forget all the crap I've done and seen last season."

Speaking of which, Sylar was left in an alley at the end of last season, and *poof* he's at Claire's. So here's the question I have... why did they have to save the cheerleader in Season 1? Apparantly Claire wouldn't have died, Sylar didn't die after being stabbed anyway, the sword would have rendered him out for a short period, and Pete would have still been able to go nuclear.

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    What about governor's hilarious about face? "I like this Nathan Petrelli. He's our man, right, woman I'm boning?" Then cut to commercial and onto hour two. Governor: "Nathan Petrelli? Hell no. He's a Jesus freak. No way am I endorsing him."
Thank goodness, I thought I had missed something. That was pretty bad.

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    I do like the super speed girl.
I'm not impressed. I'm starting to think my four-year-old daughter can out-clever Hiro.

My wife is ecstatic because when I finally caught up with the live running show at about 10:30-ish, I couldn't help but laugh and apologize for having wasted her time with this show. On a bright note, I don't have to worry about this occupying my Monday evenings anymore. Terrible, awful show, now canceled from my DVR.




"As you may have read in Robert Parker's Wine Newsletter, 'Donaghy Estates tastes like the urine of Satan, after a hefty portion of asparagus.'" Jack Donaghy, 30 Rock

Tenken347
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Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
    Originally posted by whatever
    So here's the question I have... why did they have to save the cheerleader in Season 1? Apparantly Claire wouldn't have died, Sylar didn't die after being stabbed anyway, the sword would have rendered him out for a short period, and Pete would have still been able to go nuclear.


The implication in season one was that if Sylar could regenerate when he had the nuclear ability, he would have destroyed New York instead of Peter, just because he could and no one would have been able to stop him.


I'm surprised everyone is so unhappy with the show. I thought it was pretty good. I'll grant that there were at least a couple of moments which bothered me (the biggest one: why does Sylar still have his TK if everything else was wiped out? As others have pointed out, that's not his inherent ability), but overall I think it's a much stronger start than season two. I like that they do seem to have a theme for the season, not just "Villains" showing up, but that the heroes are themselves becoming more and more villainous, becoming drunk with their own power. We'll see how the rest of the season shakes out, but right now I'm pretty happy.
Alessandro
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Worcester MA

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
I didn't feel like the Heroes premier was "bad" necessarily, just confusing ... like, what exactly are the characters' motivations for doing such things? How does it all tie together (I know the point of this series is to build up the mysteries as the season goes along, but this was a little much)?

For example, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet ... but why exactly did Future Peter feel the need to shoot Nathan? I mean, couldn't he just time-warp to the morning before the press conference and, y'know, TELL Nathan not to make his statment? I mean, wouldn't that be easier than killing him (what the hell did Nathan do in the future so horrible that Peter felt that fratricide was the only viable recourse)?

At first, I assumed that Peter simply had the power to reanimate Nathan (using his magic Clair-esque blood or something), and his plan all along was to do something dramatic - like an assassination attempt - in order to make a statment before bringing him back ... but then it appears as if Linderman was Nathan's savior, and Peter had no intention of saving him. Seriously, WTF?

One more (little) thing ... Where exactly did Peter get the ability to swap people's consciousness into different bodies? I mean, I know he's from the future so it could have happened anytime, but it just seems like another extreme move on his part (although in a way it does make sense, because simply warping Present Peter to any location while he did his dirty work would be fruitless since he could just warp himself right back and expose his plan).

Mohinder as Jeff Goldblum, Nikki as Sub-Zero (or Frost, if you wanna get technical) ... GAH BRAIN OVERLOAD. Anyway, make no mistake I'll still be watching; just a little more confused than I would like to be.

(edited by Alessandro on 23.9.08 1047)


Parquet Wishes and Leprechaun Dreams

The most hilarious thing about Tommy Dreamer is that everyone else in WWE, from Shelton Benjamin to dudes who haven't even debuted yet, has a T-shirt available. WWE doesn't even bother printing up a T-shirt for Tommy Dreamer, A MAN WHOSE GIMMICK IS WEARING A T-SHIRT WHILE WRESTLING. And why is that? Because not a god damn person would ever pay money for a Tommy Dreamer shirt. Not even his own mother. As a result he usually ends up wearing a shirt that says "WRESTLEMANIA 24" or "JUDGEMENT DAY." I think it's time for Tommy Dreamer to just print up a T-shirt that says "UPCOMING PAY PER VIEW"

Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.94
    Originally posted by Alessandro
    For example, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet ... but why exactly did Future Peter feel the need to shoot Nathan? I mean, couldn't he just time-warp to the morning before the press conference and, y'know, TELL Nathan not to make his statment? I mean, wouldn't that be easier than killing him (what the hell did Nathan do in the future so horrible that Peter felt that fratricide was the only viable recourse)?


That last question is an interesting one, but I don't know if they'll ever explore it. The future that Future Peter came from was distopian enough for him to want to gun down his beloved brother.

To answer the question more fully, however, there's nothing to suggest that Nathan would actually listen to Peter's insistance that he not give the speech, especially since he was all for it just seconds before (and with the knowledge that shapeshifters and mind alterers exist).


    Peter had no intention of saving him. Seriously, WTF?


Peter's never struck me as anyone with much of a a plan for anything. He does things, things happen, and he reacts. Even when he was talking to Claire at the start of the teaser, he didn't seem like he had much of a plan other than "Shoot Nathan and see what happens."



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Twoflower
Bauerwurst








Since: 4.1.02

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.03
    Originally posted by Excalibur05
    Peter's never struck me as anyone with much of a a plan for anything. He does things, things happen, and he reacts. Even when he was talking to Claire at the start of the teaser, he didn't seem like he had much of a plan other than "Shoot Nathan and see what happens."


Yep. If he had any sort of sense of forethought, he would've jumpe back to the future immediately after shooting Nathan, rather than RUN FOR IT. Why does a guy who can fly, teleport, and walk through walls need to carry on a merry little foot chase, anyway? My only guess is he wanted to hang around and see what happened, and of COURSE the best way to do that is to store Peter away in one of the least safe ways possible, etc, etc... logic and Peter are not close friends. Author's fiat and Peter are BFFs.
StingArmy
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Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.54
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
      Originally posted by EddieBurkett
      I like that they FINALLY explained what the hell Sylar does to people's brains.

    Yeah, but they really didn't. We see him look at and tinker around with Claire's brain, but we still don't know how that gives HIM the power. What does he do to his own brain. Telekinesis doesn't explain it, since that too was a stolen power.

They explained it just fine. Sylar looks through people's brains similar to how you take apart electronics (or a watch, which is exact comparison the writers make) to see how they work. We saw him sort of thumb through the different parts of Claire's brain to see how her healing abilities worked.

Once he found that part of her brain, that's all he needed. It's like gaining knowledge. The end, ability acquired.

- StingArmy
Alessandro
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Worcester MA

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that one of the things I did like about this episode was that we - indirectly - received an explanation on how Hiro's powers work.

Now, pseudoscientifically speaking, his ability to freeze time isn't simply a matter of hitting a button on a stopwatch ... I always figured that Hiro either (a) had the ability to move so fast that everything else seems to stand still in relation to him, or (b) had the power to make everything else in the universe move in super slow-motion so that he can go about his business undetected.

Now, you'd think that the former trick would be the easier of the two to pull off ... but apparently, he seems to be able to do the latter, since everything else in the world is "frozen" in time except for Speedy Girl-zalez who is vibrating her molecules at such an advanced rate that she appears to be moving at normal speed alongside Hiro.







I didn't really have a point for this rant, just wanted to share ;)



Parquet Wishes and Leprechaun Dreams

The most hilarious thing about Tommy Dreamer is that everyone else in WWE, from Shelton Benjamin to dudes who haven't even debuted yet, has a T-shirt available. WWE doesn't even bother printing up a T-shirt for Tommy Dreamer, A MAN WHOSE GIMMICK IS WEARING A T-SHIRT WHILE WRESTLING. And why is that? Because not a god damn person would ever pay money for a Tommy Dreamer shirt. Not even his own mother. As a result he usually ends up wearing a shirt that says "WRESTLEMANIA 24" or "JUDGEMENT DAY." I think it's time for Tommy Dreamer to just print up a T-shirt that says "UPCOMING PAY PER VIEW"

SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 1 day
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.49
    Originally posted by StingArmy
      Originally posted by SchippeWreck
        Originally posted by EddieBurkett
        I like that they FINALLY explained what the hell Sylar does to people's brains.

      Yeah, but they really didn't. We see him look at and tinker around with Claire's brain, but we still don't know how that gives HIM the power. What does he do to his own brain. Telekinesis doesn't explain it, since that too was a stolen power.

    They explained it just fine. Sylar looks through people's brains similar to how you take apart electronics (or a watch, which is exact comparison the writers make) to see how they work. We saw him sort of thumb through the different parts of Claire's brain to see how her healing abilities worked.

    Once he found that part of her brain, that's all he needed. It's like gaining knowledge. The end, ability acquired.

I guess that works, but it still doesn't particularly sit right with me. I get that he sees how the powers work in the brain, but I don't get how just seeing it means he now has the power too. He has to physically examine the brain, meaning there's something physically different about it. What I'm left wondering is how me makes the physical change in his own brain.

And the more I write about this, the more I can't make Sylar's methodology about the powers jive with Mohinder's new methodology.

Sometimes I think they don't WANT us thinking about stuff like this. And it troubles me that sometimes that's all I CAN think about when I'm watching.



"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
The Guinness.
Morcilla








Since: 24.4.05
From: San Diego, CA

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.91
Liked the show. Mohinder was lame.

As far as Nikki is concerned. I'm thinking that the character is not Nikki/Jessica at all. I'm leaning towards the character being Nikki's actual twin sister that was labeled dead in season one when Nikki had confronted her father about all the bad thnigs from childhood.

I don't remember all the specifics in the episode but that was the first thought that came to my mind when I saw "Nikki" again.


EddieBurkett
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Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.91
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
    And the more I write about this, the more I can't make Sylar's methodology about the powers jive with Mohinder's new methodology.


As I understand it, the chemicals in Maya's adrenaline are what cause the powers to manifest, but depending on the layout of the brain, different powers manifest. Basically, doesn't this mean that every brain is a map for a different super power, and even normal people are simply dormant, so that Sylar can run around studying normal people's brains and still develop crazy powers?

Then again, without knowing what he's sampling, he could wind up with something stupid like Mohinder.

Guinness, I like your theory about Tracey.

Even though he's all religious-freaky, I'm glad they opted not to kill Nathan after last season.



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Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.88
    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
      Originally posted by StingArmy
        Originally posted by SchippeWreck
          Originally posted by EddieBurkett
          I like that they FINALLY explained what the hell Sylar does to people's brains.

        Yeah, but they really didn't. We see him look at and tinker around with Claire's brain, but we still don't know how that gives HIM the power. What does he do to his own brain. Telekinesis doesn't explain it, since that too was a stolen power.

      They explained it just fine. Sylar looks through people's brains similar to how you take apart electronics (or a watch, which is exact comparison the writers make) to see how they work. We saw him sort of thumb through the different parts of Claire's brain to see how her healing abilities worked.

      Once he found that part of her brain, that's all he needed. It's like gaining knowledge. The end, ability acquired.

    I guess that works, but it still doesn't particularly sit right with me. I get that he sees how the powers work in the brain, but I don't get how just seeing it means he now has the power too. He has to physically examine the brain, meaning there's something physically different about it. What I'm left wondering is how me makes the physical change in his own brain.

    And the more I write about this, the more I can't make Sylar's methodology about the powers jive with Mohinder's new methodology.

    Sometimes I think they don't WANT us thinking about stuff like this. And it troubles me that sometimes that's all I CAN think about when I'm watching.


Their best bet is to chalk it up to him using minor telekinesis to rearrange his brain to match what he sees, which would allow them to explain away how the telekinesis has managed to stick around while every other power seems to have left him post-stabbing- he always had telekinesis, and by copying the more powerful version from his first victim and constantly using it, he just unleashed his full potential, ala Parkman's telepathy growing stronger. But they probably just won't mention it or explain it any further.



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Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.16
I watched the episode and then re-watched the credits. I was shocked not to see M. Night Shymalan's name listed with all of the shocking twists.



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The Razzies are a shell out itself. Siene Miller was good as Baroness. The script for GI Joe was pretty terrible considering the Larry Hama source material.
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