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24.7.14 0056
The W - Guest Columns - Heenan shoot review
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Xavier Doom
Pinkelwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Toronto, Canada

Since last post: 3138 days
Last activity: 1759 days
#1 Posted on
Nice job on the Heenan recap. Some of those RF Video shoots are great -- I ordered the Abdullah interview a few years back just so I could finally hear him say something.

Interesting that Heenan thinks wrestling is all but dead because it's given too much away.

It might not be dying... but it is changed forever. Who knows what it will look like in 20 years?

Anyway, again, nice job.

-XD



"Ich bin der chrome dinette."
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shotgun_russ
Linguica








Since: 28.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN

Since last post: 4292 days
Last activity: 4252 days
#2 Posted on
It was depressing to hear the Brain talk like that because he's right to a point. I think everybody always knew wrestling was worked, but hearing Vinnie Mac air it out was like finally finding out about Santa Claus. (EDIT: Santa Claus spoiler removed here) Once you took the believability that it was real out of the situation, the only thing to keep the fans interested were spots (which ECW proved can only take you so far before people are numb to them), actual athletic ability (which is usually possessed by those with the worst mic skills and are then held back for that) and storylines (which are written so horribly illogical and unengaging most of the time).

As far as a talk show goes, I wish I had heard him here in town a year or so ago fill in on the local afternoon talk show. That had to be a treat. If I knew anything about radio, I would LOVE to be involved with that. Hell, I just want to hear the guy call people "humanoids" again. Ah, well... I'll just go home and watch Wrestlemania VIII tonight and listen to him and Monsoon go back and forth.




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Russ Ray
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www.shotgunreviews.com
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"Where the women are hot,
the men fight zombies,
and the monkeys live like kings."
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JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 48 min.
#3 Posted on
"actual athletic ability (which is usually possessed by those with the worst mic skills and are then held back for that)"

Hey, the current main eventers are about the best workers in the company.
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#4 Posted on
This has nothing to do with the current vein of discussion, but I always find it weird how - well, if someone was doing a PPV and said "this spot is so cool, I don't want to spoil it for you", it'd be very strange. But this kinda thinking is common in Shoot Tape reviews, not just with this one.

I guess, because it's a point by point detailed recap, I don't get why you don't mention a little when you're going over so much in great detail. I'd think the difference in a review would be only bring the points and parts that help shape your opinion on the tape.

But that's just me, and I'm honestly probably more intersted in getting spoiler free reviews but I can't see ever getting a shoot tape - just rather have wrestling if I'm gonna pay for it, and I don't really watch the ones I have all that much.



.
shotgun_russ
Linguica








Since: 28.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN

Since last post: 4292 days
Last activity: 4252 days
#5 Posted on

    Originally posted by JMShapiro
    Hey, the current main eventers are about the best workers in the company.


Depends who they're working. Jericho, Benoit, Angle, and (more recently) Undertaker within the past year have been able to elevate Austin, Rock, and Triple H to great matches (especially in Austin's case, because he actually DOES know how to wrestle on the mat). Triple H can get by in a punch-kick-punch fest because he knows how to work up the crowd.

Rock, however, really only knows one style, and half the technical moves he knows he swiped from Chris Benoit a couple of years ago when they feuded. He doesn't even know how to properly work them into the psychology of a match. He just has a guy down all of a sudden and puts them into a Sharpshooter that nobody ever taps out of and we all know won't work.




=================================
Russ Ray
Managing Editor
www.shotgunreviews.com
---------------------------------
"Where the women are hot,
the men fight zombies,
and the monkeys live like kings."
=================================
JHawk
Medisterpoelse








Since: 13.2.02
From: Warren, OH

Since last post: 4543 days
Last activity: 2143 days
AIM:  
#6 Posted on
The views of "From JHawk's Beak" do not necessarily reflect those of anybody else in the free world. This is a very good point you've raised, but here was my line of thinking with that. Bear in mind that this is the first time I've seen a shoot interview, and therefore my first time reviewing one. I am well aware that many people who read that wanted to see the interview for themselves (as seen by the fact that two or three people have already inquired about getting a copy), so some of the road stories I left out. I am also well aware that sometimes if you hear about an interview before you see it, the funny road stories aren't as funny. There were also one or two that I thought were funny but not really worth mentioning. Great point though, and I will take that into consideration if I ever do another shoot review. Thanks to everybody who has given feedback to the review. My writing can only improve if you guys provide me with constructive criticism, but I have to say I gain more respect for CRZ and some of the other recappers every time I do a review or column.



"*Wrestling* fans watching a *wrestling* program want to see *wrestlers* *wrestle*!"

-Jim Cornette
Raw is War 12/29/97
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 48 min.
#7 Posted on
"Jericho, Benoit, Angle, and (more recently) Undertaker"

???

"within the past year have been able to elevate Austin, Rock, and Triple H to great matches"

Then how come Rock, Austin, and Triple H have had great matches with each other?

"Rock, however, really only knows one style"

Yeah, the WWF main event style. And all Rock does is have good matches.
dfallan
Cotechino








Since: 11.1.02
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Since last post: 4264 days
Last activity: 4264 days
AIM:  
#8 Posted on
A LOT of people seem overly critical of Rock's in ring style. I dont think he's the greatest wrestler (Ring skill wise that is) but he's a damn site better than a lot of other guys who have made it to mainevent status AHEMCOUGHhoganCOUGH AHEM. I mean he has a nice reprotoir of moves that we get to see on a regular basis, and every
now and then throws in something else.
Don't know If I'd say the Rock ONLY has good matches, but he's not usually the crappiest wrestler in the ring.

Of course the current WWF style doesn't really seem to push emphasis on great ring skills (At televised events). a typical PPV will consist of high spots, the signature moves, and a lot of the same old, plus you always have to take into account who is fighting, and what they are willing to do (Taz was the Suplexing Machine in ECW, but in WWF, no one wants to take those bumps...so I understand, plus I don't see him Suplexing Show or Kane.).

Austin is a great wrestler(about 7 years ago, I caught a few house shows with Him and fellow midcarder Savio Vega putting on spectacular wrestling displays), but his current style, not to mention limitations he has due to those pesky spinal injuries of his, limit him. (Recall matches on two consecutive RAWs, when he first came back from the SUrgery/bein run Down, Beniot, then Angle the next week, when the world was shocked by Austin's Mat wrestling)

Undertaker is older, a little worse for wear (So it appears) and a big guy to boot, but he too is usually able to put on a match where you walk away without thinking left, right and Powerbomb are his only Job Skills.

As for Triple H, he looks REALLY bulked up (Although, is it me or does he look a tad smaller now than he did back on his Jan 7th comeback appearance) and one has to figure that may lead to loss of certain moves.

So basically I question if in the current WWF Televised Match style, wrestlers really get the chance to show what they can do. Hell Jericho, Beniot, Angle, Edge and RVD are all guys who I think are great wrestlers (And potential main eventers with the right push), but you see them on the tube and it seems they always just get in the same old moves with only a slight variation.
It seems a case of 'Do what we usually do', and maybe its just a lot simpler or safer that way?

Anyone know what the House show's are like?



"Money's the Same whether you earn it or scam it" Bobby "The Brain" Heenan
"Will you stop!" Gorilla Monsoon after just about everything Heenean says.
"Welcome to Monday NYQUIL, where the Big boys Play with each other": Steve Austin, in ECW imitating his former boss Eric Bischoff.
Madame Manga
Kolbasz








Since: 16.1.02
From: Silicon Valley

Since last post: 85 days
Last activity: 1 day
#9 Posted on
I went to the house show in San Jose in early December last year...are the matches different? Not really, not for the midcarders. I saw just about the same things I see on TV. I doubt they are going to waste really cool wrestling on a half-full arena. Christian was doing enormous, babyish temper tantrums which he's since started doing on TV, so I guess that was a rehearsal.

The main-eventers, though, had a tag match that was one of the silliest things I've ever seen. This was Austin & Rock vs. Angle & Jericho. They did tons of simultaneous spots, two and two, just for laughs. Whipping two guys from the corners so they'd collide in the middle of the ring. Overselling like crazy. At one point, when one wrestler had another in a headlock, a third wrestler put a headlock on HIM from behind, was headlocked in turn so that all four were in a train, and then the ref got in on it too. That's where they cut loose--on the humor. I know we'll never see that on TV. It was ridiculous, but pretty funny.

MM
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#10 Posted on
WWF San Jose house shows tend to be different (or so I've heard), because the wrestlers react to the Observer's Dave Meltzer being their - either really good (to get Dave to put them over), or really comedy (to see how Dave will react.)

Comedy things (and other things) do sometimes make it in from house shows - that Austin/Rock singing speech the RAW before SurvivorSeries and that 14 person tag in the midst of the Alliance/WWF stuff are both good examples.

But mostly, there's a lot of practice - ideas to try out, matches to practice before it's "for real."



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