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The W - Sports that aren't Baseball, Football, Basketball, or Hockey - HBO Boxing
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pieman
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Since: 11.12.01
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.66

I know JJD watches all this stuff and I have to say that I am getting hooked again. When I was in college (1978 - 1982), I lived for the boxing game. It's all coming back to me now.

This week's fights were outstanding. I was very impressed with Kassim Ouma. Jantuah looked like he was confused by the lefty, but Ouma seemed to have a lot of stamina for a twelve round fight.

Arturo Gatti looked good as well. He seems like a good guy, but Floyd Mayweather will kill him, won't he?

The piece they did afterward on the Julio Cesar Chavez/Meldrick Taylor fight from 1990 was outstanding. I wasn't following boxing when this occurred, but I cannot believe Richard Steele stopped that fight with two seconds to go in the final round. Taylor was robbed. And seeing him now, all slurring his words and looking crappy - sad, really sad.





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Since: 2.1.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
I would never ever ever count out Gatti in a fight. Under McGirt he has brought back his boxing skill, and he still has the ability to turn a fight into a brawl if need be. I would probably bet on Mayweather, but not with any sort of feeling like it was a sure bet. Either way, I expect it would be an awesome fight. If it stayed purely technical, Floyd takes it, but if Gatti can rough him up and get him to throw some with him, Arturo has as good a chance as anyone.

Then I want the winner of that vs. the winner of Tszyu/Hatton!



JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.92
That must have been one of the "Legendary Nights" episodes? Those were all good. Meldrick Taylor was UNBELIEVABLE at one point. He should've gotten the Chavez win.

Ouma is a very talented fighter, and he seems to take a good shot well, though Jantuah backed him up in round 1 a couple of times. Once Ouma got in the pocket Jantuah really didn't know what to do with him. If Winky Wright beats Trinidad he would be a huge favorite over Ouma (assuming Winky went back to 154), but I think Ouma would be very dangerous for him.

As an aside, 154 has gone from the marquee division to pretty sad in just one year, what with De La Hoya and Mosley going to 147 and Winky potentially going up to 160, along with Trinidad and Vargas (assuming his come back gets off the ground). Ouma should be able to hold on to his belt for some time.

Gatti looked GREAT against Leija, but I think Floyd would have his way with him, no matter that I would LOVE to believe otherwise. Guys that are too fast can't be beaten until they slow down, and even though Floyd hasn't fought anyone too great lately, he did knock out Diego Corrales, who is now considered the #1 guy at 135, fairly easily.

Spinks-Judah is Saturday night on Showtime, then Hopkins/Eastman with Jermain Taylor on 2/19 and Vargas coming back on 2/26. PLUS Pacquaio-Morales on 3/19 on PPV. Ooh.



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Since: 25.2.04
From: Keystone State

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
I've had HBO for about 6 months now (I get it for free for some reason...shhh), and I've probably watched more boxing than movies or series on there.

Of course, I spent this weekend's show at a bar, and I only caught a little bit of Gatti at the bar. He did look good, and I'll probably be pulling for him, but it's going to be tough for him.

redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37
Generally, the quicker boxer in Mayweather would be a heavy favorite against Gatti. However, due to the 3 wars with Ward, Gatti is a more recognizable name, and might actually go into a fight with Mayweather as either a slight dog or even favored. Also, Mayweather would have to go into the fight realizing he can only win on points, as Gatti isn't getting knocked out, while Gatti can go in guns ablazing for the knockout.
pieman
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Since: 11.12.01
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.66

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Gatti is a more recognizable name, and might actually go into a fight with Mayweather as either a slight dog or even favored.


Boy, that is just the opposite of what Jim Lampley and Larry Merchant said. They went on at length about what a good guy that Gatti is and how much he has done in the sport. They talked about how he had changed his style from a puncher to a boxer as well. As for Mayweather, they thought he wasn't such a good guy, but should be a prohibitive favorite over Gatti. I'll take their word for it since I haven't been following the sport for a while.



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Since: 2.1.02
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.93
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Gatti is a more recognizable name, and might actually go into a fight with Mayweather as either a slight dog or even favored.


I can't believe that would be even close to true. I'd expect Gatti to end up around a 5-to-1 or 6-to-1 underdog at best. NO WAY the know-nothing, casual crowd (who I would presume would push the line closer to Gatti, in your thoughts) gets THAT much action going on the line.

Floyd is quickly approaching the Roy Jones-level of dominance. Unfortunately, he's kind of taking Roy's approach in that he hasn't had a real tough test since the Castillo fights, even though he's got a lot more potential for good fights at 140 than Roy had at 175. That changes with the Gatti fight, but I'd still like to see him fight Tszyu and the like at 140 before he moves up to fight Oscar or Mosley at 147. More likely he'll have to fight one of those guys sooner than later, though, as Shane and Oscar won't be around forever. I think Floyd would be a favorite against both of those guys as well.

Now that I think about it, I'd expect Floyd-Gatti to be similar to Roy Jones-James Toney at 168. Toney was the champ, an excellent fighter who remains excellent to this day, but he wasn't in Roy's class and hardly won any rounds in that fight. Gatti will likely get beat fairly handily, but he won't lose any of his marquee value if he doesn't get blasted by Floyd, and I don't know if Floyd's got that kind of power (I doubt he does, and likely NO ONE has it sufficient to take out Gatti at 140).



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Since: 22.4.02
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
Not so sure I'd say that Gatti's too unknown... I'd think he would bring a whole lot of fans to the table thanks to the trilogy with Ward (I'm one of those fans). I'm with RSN on this one, even though I'm not sure he'd get THAT many fans. Gatti's already a decent name, but this could be the fight that makes him a bigger star.



You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.93
I think I might have been unclear. I'm sure Gatti would have more fans, but if they move the line toward "even", the more hardcore fans would jump all over it and put tons of dough on Floyd, who surely has less (any?) fans than Gatti. If you gave to Floyd as a 2-to-1 favorite, I might have to sell my house and put all of the money on Mayweather.



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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.37
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    I think I might have been unclear. I'm sure Gatti would have more fans, but if they move the line toward "even", the more hardcore fans would jump all over it and put tons of dough on Floyd, who surely has less (any?) fans than Gatti. If you gave to Floyd as a 2-to-1 favorite, I might have to sell my house and put all of the money on Mayweather.






On paper, in a vacuum, Mayweather would be a prohibitive favorite to win via decision. However, those aren't the circumstances. The public money would go heavy, and considering the Jersey connection very heavy, on Gatti. Meanwhile the smart money might have to sit back, out of fear of bridge jumping on a fighter whose best shot is winning on points.
Now, if you wanted to take a few bucks and try to really turn it into a profit, this could be the type of fight that pays off in a draw.
Sobriquet
Bauerwurst








Since: 25.7.04
From: Canada

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.77
Gatti: Four time Fight of the Year winner.

Wayweather:

My point is, people KNOW the name Arturo Gatti. He is an exciting fighter who's fights leave just about everyone satisfied. Mayweather, as great as he (might) be, isn't exactly a name amongst casual boxing fans, and for good reason.

I actually hope Gatti comes out and KOs Mayweather, or at least beats the hell out of him -- not because I think Floyd is a mediocre fighter, but because I think he has the potential to be spectacular. Let Gatti wake him the hell up. Let's face it -- the guy is a primadonna and is treading water. It's been over two years now since he was involved in a real fight, rather than an exhibition of his skill as a boxer.

Mayweather might as well be fighting tomato cans for all he's done since Castillo... it's time for him to go to war, or go home. Yes, boxing is the sweet science -- but it also involves one guy's fist hitting another's guy's face, and when I watch Mayweather fight, it looks more like he's tapping the guy than actually hitting him.

What he does against Gatti may very well dictate the rest of his career. If he dances and taps, he'll likely win, but a lot of people will just say "eh -- so what?". If he does some real damage, THEN people will take notice.
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Since: 2.1.02
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.92
(Thanks to Sobriquet for posting as I continue DOMINATING this thread, but I promise to go away after this. Maybe.)

(Also, I'd like to say I'd like nothing more than to see Gatti beat Floyd, really. But wanting it to happen is a far cry from believing it could happen, which I obviously don't have.)

I've been really thinking about this, since there seems to be a real belief that Gatti can beat Floyd here, and I remembered the thing that may actually hold the key for Floyd, IMO, which is Gatti's propensity to cut, and cut badly. Yes, he hasn't been cut too badly in a long time, but he's always swollen up, even in the Leija fight, and I think that if Floyd peppers him with shots like he did Diego Corrales (and pretty much anyone else) then Floyd will break up Gatti's face and the fight will be stopped. Maybe instead of Jones-Toney the fight will be more like Jones-Clinton Woods, which was stopped in round 6, I think. (Gatti's better than Woods, but Woods is a decent fighter who went the distance with Glen Johnson, a feat that looks more impressive today than at the time.)

However, MAYBE Floyd's hand problems come back if he lays a good beating on Arturo for three or four rounds? We've seen Gatti rumble with Ward with a broken hand, but Floyd would go more into defense mode when his hands were getting hurt against Castillo and Sosa. That could be a real shot for Gatti, though Floyd said it was bad tape jobs that were responsible for the hand injuries and they haven't affected him lately.

Also, Floyd DOMINATED the Corrales fight. Corrales was unbeaten at the time, and in the 14 months leading up to the Maywweather fight he had won the IBF super featherweight title over an unbeaten Roberto Garcia by TKO in 7, scored a unanimous decision over "the Eastern Beast" John Brown, who wasn't getting KO'ed by anyone escept Shane Mosley at the time, KO'ec Derrick Gainer in three, knocked out Justin Juuko in ten (Floyd had done so in nine a year earlier), and KO'ed Angel Manfredy in three, who Floyd had KO'ed in two to win the title. That's not an unimpressive resume for ANYONE, an only one judge saw fit to give Corrales even ONE round against Mayweather.

Corrales has come back to avenge a TKO loss (on cuts) to Joel Casamayor and beat then-undefeated Acelino Freitas by TKO in a weird fight that saw Freitas essentially give up after Corrales knocked him down three times, and now he's considered the #1 fighter at 135. Corrales may be even BETTER than Gatti, and Floyd knocked him down FIVE times.

    Originally posted by Sobriquet
    hat he does against Gatti may very well dictate the rest of his career.


I'm pretty sure Floyd knows that, as well. If he beats Gatti, the demand will be there for a Tszyu fight. (I'm pretty sure Tszyu will beat Ricky Hatton on May 5.) If he then beats Tszyu and is the undisputed champ at 140, there will be BIG money in a fight with Oscar at 147. HUGE money, I think. Floyd's always be kind of underpaid (through all fault of him own, I think) and never been much of a draw, but those three fights stand to make Floyd a very wealthy man, so I doubt focus will be a problem for Floyd. He HAS to win this fight. Even if Floyd beats him, Gatti will still be Gatti and will be able to fight in marquee fights as long as he gets wins. He might even be the second best fighter in the divison, as I'm not sure I'd take even Tszyu to beat him, but he's just not in Floyd's class, the "A+++" class.



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Bauerwurst








Since: 25.7.04
From: Canada

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.77
Don't get me wrong -- I don't think Gatti can win this fight any more than you, but, like you, I WANT him to. He has more excitement in his left pinky than the Pretty Boy has in his entire body. The only way I will be satisfied with a Mayweather win is if he is physically dominant, not just technically dominant. He has to show the kind of power and grit and fighting spirit that draws in casual fans... otherwise, simply winning will not mean a whole helluva lot.

I know Mayweather is not a knockout fighter... but he has a tendency to fall back and just out-skill his opponents. While this is great for fans of the technical game, and has been one of the biggest reasons he's 33-0, casual boxing fans want to see wars, knockouts, and real damage.

Mayweather will never be a big money draw until he can show that. He can beat everyone they throw at him, and it won't matter unless he knocks them out convincingly while going through turmoil to do it. That's what I meant when I said the Gatti fight will dictate his career: knock Gatti the hell out, and Mayweather may very well become a household name and a big money draw; pepper him over 10 rounds in a boring "look at me dance and throw jabs" fight, and Mayweather moves on to bigger names while casual fight fans move on to OTHER names.

In any case, I remember back when Floyd cried about his hands and the "bad tape job". C'mon -- he's one of the top fighters in the world. Are we really supposed to believe his trainer taped his hands badly? I don't buy it for a second.

Hmmmm -- I really don't like Floyd, apparently. I knew his fights bored me to tears, but I didn't realize I had this much distaste for him :)
pieman
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Since: 11.12.01
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.66

I know I started this discussion with my comment assuming that Mayweather would kill Gatti, but has a fight been signed yet? I know Lampley and Merchant were speculating on it, but is there a date?


I knew JJD was into his boxing, but you could write a book, my friend.



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Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.14
I'm really hoping that the winner of Mayweather-Gatti fights the winner of Tszyu-Hatton (this is an idiotic career decision by Hatton by the way - Tszyu's not only going to beat him but embarress him in his hometown, which means he probably takes away a real lucrative source of revenue for Hatton in the process). A more likely scenario is that Tszyu's next (and probably last) fight is at 147 vs the winner of Spinks/Judah II, and (assuming Mayweather wins) Mayweather tries to continue on the "easy money" path, probably holding out for a fight against Oscar and fighting bums in the process. Gatti will probably retire as soon as his resurgence as a "Boxer" is done, and I wouldn't be surprised if he got Roy Jones Jr's job afterward.

Tszyu will kill Mayweather. He's shown time and time again all he needs one small opening and the fight takes a drastic turn. DeMarcus Corley (I love Chop-Chop, and he gets another shot against Cotto coming up) got in a shot against Mayweather that rocked him. Can you imagine if that was a Kostya shot instead?

And Richard Steele was 100% right to stop that fight. A Ref's first and foremost job at all times is to protect the fighters when they can't protect themselves. As was attested to by every person in that documentary, Steele was correct in determining that Taylor was in the condition that he couldn't protect himself anymore, and that one more solid shot could literally have ended his life. 2 seconds or no, the ref doesn't have the time or ability (nor is it his job) to accurately decide if there's enough time left in the fight for another shot to be landed. His job is to decide when a fighter has had enough, can no longer protect himself, and is in serious danger if he gets hit again. All three held more than true for Taylor. You think the ending was controversial the way it was? Imagine if Taylor had let them continue, Chavez had rushed accross the ring, nailed a defenceless Taylor, and put him in a coma. That was not an unrealistic scenario at that moment.

That was the kind of fight that - regardless of outcome - should have raised both fighters stock. That Chavez is remembered one way, and Taylor another is a lot more about what they did with the rest of their careers than about the outcome of that fight.



Man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe.
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Euripides


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