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21.12.14 2015
The W - Pro Wrestling - Hate Watching Wrestlemania?
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Millerek
Weisswurst








Since: 12.10.12
From: USA

Since last post: 188 days
Last activity: 2 days
#1 Posted on
So, are we the heels?

http://grantland.com/features/wwe-wrestlemania-batista-randy-orton-daniel-bryan-triple-h/



Ma'am, there is only one God, and I don't think He dresses like that.
Promote this thread!
JimBob Skeeter
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.91
(deleted by CRZ on 28.2.14 1329)
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.61
I don't hate Wrestlemania, I just hate this card. And you win, when does my name get brought up in a thread that has nothing to do with me. Congratulations.

Its an ok article. I am not a fan of hate watching even though I did it for Earth: Final Conflict and Smallville even though I did not I was doing it. There is a difference from watching something like the Sound of Music with Carrie Underwood for free and spending $60 for Mania or $10 a month if you get the network. I think there is a flaw in that.

I also don't believe IWC hates Lawler, I love and respect the guy, but his time has passed. I don't like lumping the fans as people who illegally download their content when in fact many of us have paid good money for the PPV experience both on TV and Live. I also do believe we would loving the Rhodes/Horsemen storyline due to the fact that wouldn't have to sit through 5 hours of WCW programming more like two at most. I also don't think Green Bay was the worst wrestling audience ever. That would cities where nothing is being cheered or booed. That is the worst and most of them are in Kansas.

The main problem, the article brought up is having HHH as the main villain since SummerSlam. He is not a full time wrestler, so he shouldn't be the number one heel for almost 8 months. It should be Orton, but as the article pointed out, he is a black hole of charisma along with Batista. It should be Orton getting the boos and his comeuppance at Mania by Bryan.

(edited by lotjx on 28.2.14 1216)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 2 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.09
I'm not gonna pretend I love the WWE (though I certainly don't hate on it like a certain named poster), but hate-watching probably best describes my viewing of Wrestlemania this year. I'm pretty much done pretending WWE has the foresight or intelligence to build the fans to a boiling point by constantly screwing Daniel Bryan with some sort of payoff in the future.

And for the life of me, I never have and never will understand the Taker love at WM, but I understand I'm in the minority here. But, especially THIS year, with so much talk of Taker's age and whether or not his body can take the pounding a stiff wrestler like Brock dishes out - it'll make it even more difficult for me to get into this match when you know people are concerned that the guy EVERYONE knows will win might legitimately get injured by the guy EVERYONE knows will lose.

So, yeah, I'll probably be "hate-watching" WM this year. But I love all the other content on WWE Network, so I'm sure I'll get over it.

EDIT: Oh, and if anyone is seriously looking forward to the Orton-Batista match (other than to see if the fans crap all over it) then I guess I've pretty much wasted my breath in the first two paragraphs.

(edited by Reverend J Shaft on 28.2.14 1201)
JimBob Skeeter
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.91
As for HHH as the main villain, how long was Vince Austin's nemesis? Hell, it seemed like two years. Did it work then? Hell yeah! Is it working now? Well, it would if HHH would actually let himself be humiliated every once in a while. Is that going to happen? That's what we're all waiting for. The thing is, it's never going to happen as much as Vince let happen to him.
Do you think HHH and Steph would allow themselves to be covered with crap dropped from the top of the TitanTron?
I don't think so.
A vegan smoothie hose-down?
Maybe.
Bedpan to the side of HHH's huge ego?
Highly doubtful.
Bryan driving a tractor (IH only, plz) down to the ring.
Very probable. (Green Bay would have been the place to do this, tho.)

Regarding UT, check out this photo taken a couple of weeks ago:



It really is time for Lawler to go.



Oh, and you're welcome.

(edited by JimBob Skeeter on 28.2.14 1103)
Chumpstain
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.33
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I don't like lumping the fans as people who illegally download their content when in fact many of us have paid good money for the PPV experience both on TV and Live.


You are aware that in pretty much every thread about the WWE Network so far that you've said "Why pay $10 a month for this when you can dig around enough and find it on the internet for free", right?

Given that you cheerfully endorse illegally downloading their content elsewhere, that seems an odd statement to take issue with!

(edited by Chumpstain on 28.2.14 1110)
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.61
    Originally posted by Chumpstain
      Originally posted by lotjx
      I don't like lumping the fans as people who illegally download their content when in fact many of us have paid good money for the PPV experience both on TV and Live.


    You are aware that in pretty much every thread about the WWE Network so far that you've said "Why pay $10 a month for this when you can dig around enough and find it on the internet for free", right?

    Given that you cheerfully endorse illegally downloading their content elsewhere, that seems an odd statement to take issue with!

    (edited by Chumpstain on 28.2.14 1110)


That comes from past PPVs that between 30 to 2 years ago. I am not saying go out and get the Shield/Wyatt match. I am not saying go out and illegal download WWE. WWE has their own YouTube channel on top of their own website. That is what I am saying.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
JimBob Skeeter
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.91
And, see the nice part about shilling out that $10/month is when looking for ppv's, they come up as A WHOLE PACKAGE. You don't have to search thru youtube trying to find each and every match, IF it is available. You don't have to Google it is it is missing. It is RIGHT THERE. Hence, I feel like I spent good money not having to mess around trying to find what I want.
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.53
It's a clever final paragraph and I don't totally disagree with it (my mantra remains "crowd chants are ruining wrestling" and I have great fear for what people think they are going to accomplish by their collective performance art in Chicago...as I think they're/we're all getting worked...but I digress...), but the bit that really stuck for me was this almost throwaway line dismissing the hypothetical option of booking Bryan into the title match (emphasis mine):
    Originally posted by The Masked Man
    As wonderfully redemptive as that would be for fans, there's nothing worse than a telegraphed ending.
...which is the biggest pile of horseshit I've read this week. Telegraphed endings can be AWESOME, especially when a skilled Creativor can lay it all out, piece by piece, giving the fans several "a-ha" moments ahead of time and logically wrapping it up with - yes - the expected outcome.

The problem is that our current WWE Creative can't, or won't, devise such a story. This may be able to be chalked up to Vinterference, or it may be something a bit more complex, but for whatever reason, we are now conditioned to expect the swerve against all logic because in the WWE, that's just What They Do.

EDIT: Oh, and on Lawler - it only takes five minutes of a meaningless opening contest on ANY WWF 1990s PPV to demonstrate that what we have to endure as "commentary" in 2014 is so, so, so awful compared to what we COULD have. If Lawler and JBL can't or won't change, they need to be replaced. The NXT crew had an awful lot of long pauses (during which, presumably, someone was trying to "produce" them) but they were still so much better than the yuk-it-up crew.

(edited by CRZ on 28.2.14 1332)

Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.13
There are very easy ways to illegally download involving torrents and whatnot if you're interested in doing that, and I'm sure all the WWE network content will be on those sorts of sites sooner or later. But that problem existed long before the network, and whoever is doing that is a lost cause and cannot be convinced to pay for pro wrestling. That demographic is not who is being targeted.

Back on topic...

Re: hate-watching, end of the day, WWE deserves whatever they get. There was a time when this company had its own ideas but if the fans changed the game, the company listened. '94 with Luger and Bret comes to mind. Clearly Luger was being groomed, Bret was more popular and Vince listened to reason. Even that situation is a poor comparison because Luger was pretty popular himself and the fans would have more or less accepted him as the top guy if they'd gone through with their plans. But the goal of creative back then was to give the fans what they wanted most, not scold/troll/dickslaps them into wanting something they don't even want a little. It's absolutely fucked up and I haven't heard a coherent argument for why they're doing it.




Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 2 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.09
    Originally posted by CRZ
    but the bit that really stuck for me was this almost throwaway line dismissing the hypothetical option of booking Bryan into the title match (emphasis mine):
      Originally posted by The Masked Man
      As wonderfully redemptive as that would be for fans, there's nothing worse than a telegraphed ending.
    ...which is the biggest pile of horseshit I've read this week. Telegraphed endings can be AWESOME, especially when a skilled Creativor can lay it all out, piece by piece, giving the fans several "a-ha" moments ahead of time and logically wrapping it up with - yes - the expected outcome.


I would agree. In fact, I disagree with the part he wrote right before that, in which he says:

    Originally posted by article
    It sets up a stipulation whereby Bryan can win his way into the title match by beating Triple H.... But as amazing as that would be, it’s silly to treat a match as big as Bryan–Triple H as a stepping-stone. If that stipulation is made, everybody knows Bryan will beat Triple H. Hunter’s supposed narcissism aside, he’s too big a star to be a fait accompli on the biggest show of the year.


Which is also bullshit. How many people would rejoice if that stipulation was made, HHH steps into the ring and Bryan small packages him for the win 15 seconds into the match? That would be glorious. In fact, I'm gonna go watch WM 12 to see Ultimate Warrior no-sell the shit out of a Pedigree and stomp HHH's ass (provided HHH hasn't had that match edited out). At least HHH lasted longer in that match than Bryan did at WM 28.
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.73
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    whoever is doing that is a lost cause and cannot be convinced to pay for pro wrestling


I'm going to have to disagree with that statement. I've downloaded/streamed PPVs in the past, but I'm getting the WWE Network because I feel like I'll get my money's worth.

On a similar note, my music piracy dropped by more than 90% once Spotify became available in the US. There are plenty of pirates who can be convinced to open their wallet when a good deal is offered.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.13
    Originally posted by InVerse
      Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
      whoever is doing that is a lost cause and cannot be convinced to pay for pro wrestling


    I'm going to have to disagree with that statement. I've downloaded/streamed PPVs in the past, but I'm getting the WWE Network because I feel like I'll get my money's worth.

    On a similar note, my music piracy dropped by more than 90% once Spotify became available in the US. There are plenty of pirates who can be convinced to open their wallet when a good deal is offered.


That's fair; I'll rephrase. There are a certain number of people who no matter what, cannot be convinced to pay for pro wrestling. And I would say 100% of these people are pirates, but not 100% of pirates are these people. That's what I'm trying to say. Badly, as you can see.

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 28.2.14 1542)


Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
Cerebus
Scrapple








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.72
I will not pay for the WWE Network. I will not be paying for Wrestlemania either. I absolutely will be hate watching it.

As a hater of Daniel Bryan, almost this entire year, the WWE has been all about a character I couldn't give a shit about. I'm also sick of seeing Cena and Orton, every damn week, being the center of the WWE programming. With a handful of exceptions, the current product doesn't excite me at all. I'm really only watching it because it's what I've been doing for over two decades. It's a bad habit, like smoking. Shit, I'm actually ashamed of myself for watching this shit. Katie Vick... I was fine with that. The one-legged kid getting destroyed by Brock Lesnar? I couldn't stop laughing. Hornswoggle living underneath the ring and walking through walls? Fuck man, I miss that shit so much now. The current crap they're putting out, though, is complete ass to me. I get enjoyment from, at most, 30 minutes a week, from WWE programming.

The really sad thing is that I used to pay for every PPV every month, I'd buy every DVD they released, I'd go to any live event I could. I also bought all the VHS tapes back when those were the primary media choice. Hell, I still have a VCR, I've still got a bunch of the old tapes I can watch whenever I want. And this is really sad, because the WWE Network looks like an awesome idea and I WISH I had no problem giving them my money, but at this time, I have a big problem. I don't think they are worthy of my money. If I were to give this company $10 a month, then I'd be saying that I think the current programming is worth that, and I don't think that in the slightest. I don't believe the current PPVs are worth $50-$60 each either. I don't think anything they currently offer is even worth a lousy $10, and I absolutely hate saying this, because I know it could be and it should be.

Why would I pay this company ANYTHING for stuff I already own? All I gotta do is reach over onto my bookcase for any of the Royal Rumbles, Wrestlemanias, Survival Series. I got most of the WCW stuff because I bought those too. I even recorded some older ones way back when. I got the Clash of the Champions from from 1990 on up. I'm even lucky in that none of my copies are edited for music or logos or Benoit sightings. I have almost everything I could want without having to repay for any of it, because if I were to pay for the WWE Network, it would be like saying "Yes, you guys are doing a fine job, here take my money!" Well fuck that.



Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
TheGreatWhiteBob
Tocino








Since: 5.3.11
From: England

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 days
#15 Posted on
I probably wouldn't have ordered it this year if not for the Network (which would have been the first time that's happened since I've been old enough to have to pay for these things myself). As it is, I feel like I'm getting more than my money's worth out of the Network just taking into account the content that's currently on there. WrestleMania is just a bonus at this point, that I'm not paying any extra for, so if (when?) it sucks, I'll be less bothered than I would have been pre-Network.

That said, if current plans are to be believed, the card they're going with is truly horrendous given what could have been.

Taker/Lesnar should be fine but it's not the match everybody wanted (Cena/Taker)
The problems with Orton/Batista have probably been written about somewhere on the internet by now. Allegedly that match IS gonna be turned into a three-way, but it's not gonna be Daniel Bryan in there (no word on the third man).
HHH/Bryan just isn't the match people want to see Bryan in
Cena/Bray Wyatt could be okay but it doesn't have that "big match" feel

The rest of the rumoured card just feels so lacklustre.

No breakout moment for Roman Reigns OR Shield explosion planned with Reigns and Rollins taking on Rowan and Harper and Ambrose taking on Big E in a unification match.
Sheamus taking on Christian as expected which to be fair, should be a good match.
Cody Rhodes vs Goldust is still being rumoured despite Dustin saying otherwise.

Conventional wisdom says the Usos will take on the NAO, Cesaro takes on Swagger and AJ takes on Naomi.

For a supposedly big WrestleMania, it's just such a disappointing, lacklustre card. And one that I can absolutely see being crapped on and "hate watched".



"That's some shameful shit..."
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 8 min.
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.85
Watching out of hate or hope, so long as I pay to watch, the WWE is happy.

I do not think inserting Punk into a high Mania card to appease the Chicago audience is a good idea. Let him run beast mode Monday night, and see if there's momentum to validate a Mania spot. (And if he doesn't have a title berth, who is out there worth his stature? Christian in a retirement match?).

As a fellow Heyman guy, Punk has to be tempted by Lesnar's deal - rare TV appearances and high-profile PPV bouts. And maybe he thinks he can garner it. Have ratings suffered for Punk's absence? Is it worth it to the WWE to meet Punk's demands, whatever they might be? Personally, I'd wait til after Mania and bring Punk back as a heel challenger to new champ Bryan.

Implicit in a PPV purchase is the agreement that you are paying to get what you want, be it a good show or the preferred outcome of stories. Even if the undercard is a face sweep, is Mania a good buy if Batista or Orton walk out as champ? Depends on what the undercard can show us. But it does diminish the title. Right now, Bryan is bigger than the belt. We want him to have it so the company will show they agree with us on his commodity. But if the Batista-Orton match comes before a guaranteed Bryan match, that title bout is a bathroom break. Booking has shrunk the title, not the fans. Putting the belt on Bryan to end Mania (and starting RAW with a replay of 70,000 fans shouting YES YES YES) is win-win for everybody. Not doing this is overthink that escorts money out the door.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
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Gentlemen, perhaps people like to know what the ratings are. I think if people turn the show off at certain points it's a pretty decent indicator of whether or not they're interested.
Related threads: Final(?) Rumored Wrestlemania Card Rumors: A Shameful Thing - Rumored Wrestlemania Card Rumors: Pit of Danger - Rumoured WrestleMania Card Rumours 2014 - More...
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