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The W - Pro Wrestling - Hassan Discussion Thread
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Stilton
Frankfurter








Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 3094 days
Last activity: 3093 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.26
Like I said in the RAW thread, Hassan was getting an awful lot of the attention from posters, and I thought maybe some people would like to talk about other aspects of the show in that thread, so I've started this new thread. Zundian posted something that caught my interest, so I figure I'd start with that.

    Originally posted by Zundian
    [from this week's RAW thread] I was paying extra-close attention to what Mr. Hassan was saying, and I realized that he was really just spouting the same ultra-liberal rhetoric that I've heard many many times from the anti-war people in my area (a fairly liberal college town).

    If say, Stevie Richards, were cutting the same promo, he would be a prime example of what Rush Limbaugh and Mark Hyman call the 'Angry Left.' However, he's not white, so people factor in what they like to believe is some righteous indignation on the behalf of Arab-Americans who won't speak up for themselves.


I'm not quite sure that I understand what you're getting at here, Zundian, but I'll take a stab at it anyhow, and I'll try to keep it relevent to Hassan's character, since this isn't the politics board, and I piss enough people off in there already. I'd also like to give you the benefit of the doubt by saying perhaps you've made a clear point about something and I'm just misreading it, but I've read it a few times now and I still don't think I understand your point.

What I don't understand is this business of people factoring something in because Hassan is not white. I don't think anyone is factoring anything in (i.e. his skin color, his ethnic heritage) to arrive at the conclusion that Hassan's character is all about the righteous indignation he (the character) feels on behalf of his fellow Arab-Americans. He's fairly open and outspoken about that very point in all his promos. He says he's angry because, the way he sees it, Arab-Americans have been treated unfairly in their own country since 9/11. He's angry about racial profiling. He's angry about being detained longer than other people in airports. He's angry that people assume he might be a terrorist just because he's of Arabic descent. He's angry about the discrimination he has witnessed and experienced. That's what his gimmick is all about (so far, at least), and he says as much just about every time he opens his mouth. So, what's to factor in? Where's the guess-work involved?

Also, I think it's interesting that Hassan's debut is one of the most talked about aspects about this week's RAW (at least on the W it is) and most of us haven't even seen the man wrestle yet. People have praised his mic skills and debated the sensitivity of the gimmick. Has anyone seen him wrestle in OVW? Care to give an account of his in-ring work?



The Goal: SLACK
The Method: The Casting Out of False Prophets
The Weapon: Time Control
The Motto: "Fuck Them All of they Can't Take a Joke"
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Screeching Weasel
Tocino








Since: 13.6.04

Since last post: 3499 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.47
Hassan is a natural promo man. He's clear, concise, and presents a valid point of view. I have never seen him wrestle in OVW, but so far his promos and delivery has been unbelievably right on target. If he can wrestle half as good as he talks, we may have the next big thing here.

(edited by Screeching Weasel on 14.12.04 2256)
TheMikeSays
Bauerwurst








Since: 30.10.04
From: Kalamazoo, MI, USA

Since last post: 2964 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.29
I love how they went through the trouble to put out a press release, stating that they'd give him a fair shake, and IMMEDIATELY made him spout heel rhetoric.

Dude never had a chance.



YAPPAPI STRAPPATION, BROTHER!!!
lagboyz_jfk
Cotechino








Since: 18.4.02
From: Chicago

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.47
Is anyone else hoping that this character will go the way of Beaver Cleavage?
Ozzysun
Polska kielbasa








Since: 2.1.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.19
I personally don't like the gimmick. I think its uncalled for at a time when American soldiers are dying every day.
Mike Zeidler
Pepperoni








Since: 27.6.02
From: Champaign, IL

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 4 hours
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.91
    Originally posted by Stilton
    I'm not quite sure that I understand what you're getting at here, Zundian, but I'll take a stab at it anyhow, and I'll try to keep it relevant to Hassan's character, since this isn't the politics board, and I piss enough people off in there already. I'd also like to give you the benefit of the doubt by saying perhaps you've made a clear point about something and I'm just misreading it, but I've read it a few times now and I still don't think I understand your point.


I've got to admit, after re-reading what I wrote last night, that I'm not quite clear on what point I was trying to make.

I think perhaps that I may have been saying this:

If Stevie Richards came out and gave Mr. Hassan's promo about the plight of Arab-Americans, he would be seen as a whiny anti-war heel. But since Mr. Hassan is the one cutting the promo, I actually give more credence to what he's saying, because of all the articles I've read about Arab-Americans being targeted by people who think of them as 'one of those people' and because of what some of my friends went through in the days, weeks, and months following 9/11.

I empathize with Mr. Hassan and look at him more as a tweener, if not an outright face based on his promos. Already we know more about his character than almost every other wrestler on the roster. It also helps that he's amazing on the Mic, and I'd love to see him feud with JBL on Smackdown, just to see the crowd's reactions.



"Public office is the last refuge of the incompetent." -Boies Penrose
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 4 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.17
What I don't get about this character is why they are bothering attempting to add depth to this, and then turn around and place him in a situation to be simply a 'cheap heat' magnet against Foley? If ultimately cheap heat is all they are shooting for, why bother with this other stuff? Just call him Iraqi or Iranian or whatever, and be done with it. It seems what they are doing right now is a whole lot of effort just to draw brainless "USA!, USA!" chants.



The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 289 days
Last activity: 256 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
I don't like these quick changes in his character from week to week.

1. He starts out with the valid points about Arab-American relations and how they have been singled out unfairly.

2. Three or so weeks in, Mohammed turns into a generic heel, saying the usual line about beating the understanding into all of us who don't commiserate with his and others' plight.

3. This week, Mr. Hassan started out by reverting to the first position. Then, mid-promo, he switches to generic anti-USA heel by calling the US troops "gutless" (which of course made me very upset but more angry at whoever came up with that line).

So, I have no idea what to think. The overall message is very muddled, but the Troops comment will make it damn near impossible for anyone to buy him as a face (even if you understand and agree with his core statements).

Overall, I do want to see him go the way of Beaver Cleavage, or at the very least get a repackaging so I can focus on the wrestling versus the over the top character.



WADSWORTH: The games up, Scarlet. There are no more bullets left in that gun.
SCARLET: Oh, come on, you don't think I'm gonna fall for that old trick?
WADSWORTH: It's not a trick. There was one shot at Mr. Boddy in the study. Two for the chandelier, two at the lounge door, and one for the singing telegram.
SCARLET:That's not six.
WADSWORTH: One plus two plus two plus one.
SCARLET:Nuh, uh. There was only one shot that got the chandelier. That's one plus two plus ONE plus one.
WADSWORTH: Even if you are right, that would be one plus one plus two plus one, not one plus TWO plus one plus one.
SCARLET:(thinking) Okay, fine.One plus two plus one--(angered) Shut up!

Clue: The Movie
Snookum
Kishke








Since: 19.6.03
From: Louisville

Since last post: 2548 days
Last activity: 2529 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.56
    Originally posted by Stilton
    People have praised his mic skills and debated the sensitivity of the gimmick. Has anyone seen him wrestle in OVW? Care to give an account of his in-ring work?


I've mentioned it before that I've seen Mark Magnus work at OVW over the course at time. Ironically, a friend of mine is catching up on old OVW tapes I had made for him and he has just gotten to Magnus' debut on OVW television where he was a rather tepid face (and without the beard). He really didn't start coming into his own until he teamed up with Nikita and became part of Doug Basham's Revolution group of heels.

That's when his promo skills and his in-ring personality really started coming through. He made for a great comic heel and could pull off the occasional high-flying move in the ring (as Basham and Damaja - Danny Basham - did in OVW as well). I would have thought Magnus to go up to WWE last year, but he disappeared when Nikita's developmental contract was dropped by WWE (OVW did a storyline where he was so heartbroken over her leaving that he "quit"); so I'm glad to see that he has made the move up there.

I just hope they don't let the gimmick rule him over his natural abilities on the mic and in the ring. That's killing Nova as Simon Dean and it killed Seven as Mordecai. It's the HHH method of wrestling - talk for three weeks and then wrestle a match in the fourth. But in the end talk is pretty cheap.
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 1884 days
Last activity: 585 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.13
    Originally posted by Ozzysun
    I personally don't like the gimmick. I think its uncalled for at a time when American soldiers are dying every day.


Man, I'd go the opposite way and say that is IS called for at a time when American soldiers are dying every day. It's UNcalled for when Arab-Americans are being persecuted every day. I mean, it could have been done in a different way, but I doubt that the average WWE fan would be able to accept any other way; people who shout "USA" at a French guy in the ring are not going to be down with cheering for a guy saying he's persecuted in the US.
LionJeetSingh
Chourico








Since: 3.3.03

Since last post: 3215 days
Last activity: 3042 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.06
Didn't Magnus wrestle in OVW with the Hassan gimmick as well?

I remember reading about how he was attacked by a fan.



Vut Joo Talkin?
Snookum
Kishke








Since: 19.6.03
From: Louisville

Since last post: 2548 days
Last activity: 2529 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.56
    Originally posted by LionJeetSingh
    Didn't Magnus wrestle in OVW with the Hassan gimmick as well?

    I remember reading about how he was attacked by a fan.


He did when he finally came back 2-3 months ago to OVW. At first he only popped up occasionally by Cornette's side of the announcers' desk, demanding to be allowed to speak to the audience. Eventually that grew into him doing matches in the show again. That lasted for a few weeks until the attack and then he was never brought up again on the show.

I'm still surprised that they tried-out the WWE version of the character in OVW. It's so atypical of WWE when it comes to seeing fan-reaction to wrestling characters at OVW. Perhaps they just wanted to make sure the character had legs before they brought Hassan out to a national audience.
LionJeetSingh
Chourico








Since: 3.3.03

Since last post: 3215 days
Last activity: 3042 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.06
Did they acknowledge him as Mark Magnus?



Vut Joo Talkin?
Snookum
Kishke








Since: 19.6.03
From: Louisville

Since last post: 2548 days
Last activity: 2529 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.65
    Originally posted by LionJeetSingh
    Did they acknowledge him as Mark Magnus?


At first. I'm going from memory here, as I don't have all the results in front of me, but I recall that the first two weeks of run-ins had Dean and Cornette asking "why is Mark Magnus here and why is he wanting to interupt the show?" Then Magnus came out and told the audience that he was no longer Mark Magnus, but had converted to Muslism and would be therefore known as Muhammed Hassan.
TheMikeSays
Bauerwurst








Since: 30.10.04
From: Kalamazoo, MI, USA

Since last post: 2964 days
Last activity: 2711 days
AIM:  
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.29
More wrestlers should convert to Muslim, just for the heck of it. Throw Scotty on RAW, and then The Worm can convert to "The Koran".

I assume "Qur'an" would be too complicated for WWE fans.

(edited by TheMikeSays on 15.12.04 1712)


YAPPAPI STRAPPATION, BROTHER!!!
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 1936 days
Last activity: 1589 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
Sorry but this angle is terrible. If he was a face and some redneck douchebag picked on him (JBL I am looking at you) that could be ok. But sending him out there for drunk fans to chant USA at is just lazy racist BS and VKM should be embarrassed.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.78
    Originally posted by Ozzysun
    I personally don't like the gimmick. I think its uncalled for at a time when American soldiers are dying every day.


Those are people who have chosen to put themselves in harm's way, which is noble. This gimmick is more about the people who are living in the continental US, have nothing to do with the war, and are being attacked because of their religion or skin colour. I love how your senstivity immediately goes to the guys whose job it is to risk their lives, but lives being ruined at home by racism and cult-think don't give you even slight pause. There are Arab-Americans who are suffering too, just as innocent as any other victim of this tragic situation.

And just as American.

If handled correctly, this angle could break new ground. All these people who say "this has no place on a wrestling show" are the last to admit publicly they watch pro wrestling. They are the first to minimize what wrestling is, the last to defend it against what is frequently unfair criticism from ignorant people who know nothing about it and are too arrogant or close-minded to entertain the possibility of learning. And yet, when it tries to evolve, when it dares tackle an issue even marginally more serious or impactful than stolen girlfriends or double-crosses or chairs to the cranium, when wrestling tries finally to move beyond its lowborn beginnings, every so-called "fan" bellows how it should go back to where it belongs.

Primetime dramas have "used" 9/11 as storyline fodder, so have movies ranging from drama to documentary, and let's not pretend the news always uses tact in times like these. So why does wrestling have to stick to "what people will accept"?

It's like when Sammy Davis Jr. started doing impressions of white celebrities, like Edward G. Robinson and Jerry Lewis. Everyone said, "Sammy, are you crazy? You want to do impressions of white people? Boy, you must be out yo mind! The audience will think you're mocking them! You cannot do that." Everyone was adamant that it was not the place of a Black performer to suggest he was worthy of impersonating a white performer, but Sammy went and did it. And you know what? No one complained. It took him and his father and his "Uncle" to another playing field, it made people accept them on a higher level.

That being said, WWE will not handle this properly or even come close, but I like to see them at least attempting something new. Say what you will, but this is a small step up from the typical foreign heel gimmick, this is better than the Iron Shiek and Nikolai Volkoff. These heels have intelligent and reasonable motives for their anger, they aren't just out there getting booed because they're not white. It may be taking a long damn time, but this is a step in the right direction. It will lead to some stumbling to be certain, but maybe it can be built on in the future and lead to something, a more artistically rewarding era in WWE.

And again, whether you find this offensive or HLA offensive or dX offensive, the option is always there. Change the channel.

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 15.12.04 2036)

Hot Virgins-The World's Most Steadily Shrinking Commodity
Lotty
Chourico








Since: 23.3.02
From: Bay Area

Since last post: 3276 days
Last activity: 2549 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
BEFORE:
AFTER:

(edited by Lotty on 15.12.04 2234)



Stilton
Frankfurter








Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

Since last post: 3094 days
Last activity: 3093 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.26
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Say what you will, but this is a small step up from the typical foreign heel gimmick, this is better than the Iron Shiek and Nikolai Volkoff. These heels have intelligent and reasonable motives for their anger, they aren't just out there getting booed because they're not white. It may be taking a long damn time, but this is a step in the right direction. It will lead to some stumbling to be certain, but maybe it can be built on in the future and lead to something, a more artistically rewarding era in WWE.

    And again, whether you find this offensive or HLA offensive or dX offensive, the option is always there. Change the channel.

    (edited by Hogan's My Dad on 15.12.04 2036)


Leave it to HMD to bring a whole new way of looking at this gimmick into light.

You are so right, man! Hassan's gimmick is a whole new playing field compared to the usual foreign-heel gimmick, ala Iron Shiek and Volkoff, or even last year's La Res.

Yes, it is as step in the right direction, I suppose. Whether or not it will lead to a more artistically rewarding era in the WWE, well, I guess we'll have to wait and see where it leads.

I think Zundian made a great point earlier when he said it would have been good to see Hassan on SmackDown going up against JBL. When JBL played the racist heel against the latino crowd with Eddy as the target of his prejudice, it did wonders to bring out the passions of that crowd (and just about everyone else), and it made Eddy a stronger face, with JBL coming off as a bigger heel. That actually kinda worked.

But here they are, working Hassan as a heel because of his
ethnicity. He may be American, but is it functionally any different than the Iron Sheik and Volkoff? I mean, does it come to a very different end? The crowd is still chanting "USA! USA!" as if Duggan were still in the ring with his tongue hanging out.

I mean, damn, this kid looks good. His mic skills are awesome. And I can't wait to see him wrestle.

And I don't think it can be understated just how socially complex this gimmick is, and anyone who doubts the WWE's ability to handle it well is more or less justified by precident.

Nevertheless, they somehow managed to pull the Eugene gimmick out of the fire (and that was bound to be train wreck) and made him a fan favourite.

I still have some faint hope that Hassan will not be seen as a heel just because of his race. Of course, this will depend greatly on how the WWE writes his lines, and how they program his matches.

Also, if they keep his gimmick the way it is, something tells me he'll be given a hero's welcome when he debuts north of the border. A Calgary or Toronto or Montreal crowd will probably cheer like mad when Hassan shows up.



The Goal: SLACK
The Method: The Casting Out of False Prophets
The Weapon: Time Control
The Motto: "Fuck Them All of they Can't Take a Joke"
RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

Since last post: 586 days
Last activity: 24 days
AIM:  
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.89
Normally this would go in Politics, but I think it applies, albeit in a "sign of the times / angle" way, but in retrospect maybe McMahon *is* a genius. If they are serious about this angle, this story should be splashed across the TitanTron ASAP

Click Here (story.news.yahoo.com)

In U.S., 44 Percent Say Restrict Muslims

Nearly half of all Americans believe the U.S. government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, according to a nationwide poll.

The survey conducted by Cornell University also found that Republicans and people who described themselves as highly religious were more apt to support curtailing Muslims' civil liberties than Democrats or people who are less religious.

Researchers also found that respondents who paid more attention to television news were more likely to fear terrorist attacks and support limiting the rights of Muslim Americans.

"It's sad news. It's disturbing news. But it's not unpredictable," said Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society. "The nation is at war, even if it's not a traditional war. We just have to remain vigilant and continue to interface."...

While researchers said they were not surprised by the overall level of support for curtailing civil liberties, they were startled by the correlation with religion and exposure to television news.

"We need to explore why these two very important channels of discourse may nurture fear rather than understanding," Shanahan said.


Of course, technically, they are "Arab Americans". But the math is easy on this one...and pretty much what they have been saying the whole angle, less the sterotypical "store owner" stuff. Money in the bag...unless the dude comes out to "Ahab the Arab" next week - then it's probably going the comedy route

FLEA



Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high

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