The W
Views: 99930473
Main | FAQ | Search: Y! / G | Calendar | Color chart | Log in for more!
22.10.14 2002
The W - Baseball - Hall of Fame
This thread has 34 referrals leading to it
Register and log in to post!
Pages: 1 2 3 Next(1649 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
User
Post (57 total)
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 127 days
Last activity: 94 days
#1 Posted on

Only Ozzie for now. (I bet the veterans' committee inducts Ron Santo, for sentimentality's sake.)

I'm one of the few people who are happy that Gary Carter didn't make it. But that's probably my anti-NY bias.

There's probably no hope, but I really think Blyleven should be in there. But he's another destined for the V.C.






Odessa Steps Magazine
Dr. Alquimia Magazine
Promote this thread!
Java
Goetta








Since: 2.1.02
From: Chandler, AZ

Since last post: 358 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#2 Posted on
With the change in the voting rules for the veteran comittee, they only vote every other year now, so Ron will have to wait until next year (unfortunately). But, then he and Ryno can go in together!

spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#3 Posted on
I could go either way on Carter, but dammit where is the Goose?! Gossage basically invented the modern reliever, and was a hella solid player for a damn long time. And I don't know if he deserves it or not, but how the hell does Dale Murphy only get 98 or so votes? Are the 2 homers short of 400 that big?



There, I feel better now.
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
#4 Posted on
The Sports Guy on espn.com wrote a pretty good column on the Hall. Gary Carter should be there, Fisk is in and Carter isn`t because Fisk hit a legendary homer.

Ron Santo? Seriously?
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#5 Posted on
Seriously!

It's tough to believe how many really good players were on the Cubs in the late 60's-70's stretch (Jenkins, Williams already in) where they were just good enough to not win the pennant over and over again, but Santo was a 9 time All Star and 5 Time Gold Glove and people like him.

If they HAD made to a World Series, he'd already be in by now.

I heard Sports Guy on ESPNRadio and after hearing his voice, I can't think of him without that dorky high pitched voice. No offense, of course, but it ruins EVERYTHING.



.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#6 Posted on
Originally posted by Spiraling_Shape
The Sports Guy on espn.com wrote a pretty good column on the Hall. Gary Carter should be there, Fisk is in and Carter isn`t because Fisk hit a legendary homer.

Ron Santo? Seriously?


I don't mind the idea of Carter being in, but I still think people do not give Fisk their due when talking about him, implying that he's in because of the homer. The guy was a consistent threat for nearly 20 years. More important that that was that he one of the greatest competitors ever. I wish his HoF plaque could show him bitching out Deion Sanders for not running out a fly ball...and Deion was on the other team!

Santo should definitely be in. Hopefully the sympathy over his recent troubles will help keep him in good thoughts of the VetComm when they vote next.



There, I feel better now.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 333 days
Last activity: 327 days
#7 Posted on

Originally posted by Spiraling_Shape
The Sports Guy on espn.com wrote a pretty good column on the Hall. Gary Carter should be there, Fisk is in and Carter isn`t because Fisk hit a legendary homer.

Ron Santo? Seriously?




The top player rating in the National League three out of four years between 1964 and 1967 according to Total baseball belonged to....

Ron Santo.

The year he wasn't first, he was second.

Not only should Carter have been in, but Andre Dawson should've as well.

But then I still holdout hope for Mickey Lolich and Vada Pinson....



***Optioned to Pawtucket (IL), April 6***

pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
This year's ballot for me would have included four:

Smith
Carter
Gossage
Blyleven

That Blyleven only got 25% of the votes is absurd.



He's Rolie Polie Olie - and in his world of curves and curls, he's the swellest kid around.
Evil Buddha
Pickled pork








Since: 10.1.02
From: Somerville, MA

Since last post: 2820 days
Last activity: 2218 days
#9 Posted on
Regarding Carter, Jayson Stark wrote that side-by-side, looking at Carter's and Fisk's respective careers, one sees that, ": 1) Fisk's career lasted longer, and 2) Carter's career was better in every other way."
Now, that's debatable, as Fisk was a starter longer. However, Carter in his prime was a more dominant player compared to the rest of the league than Fisk was, reagardless of position.
Besides, O Steps, in terms of your admitted anti-NY bias, it shouldn't be an issue anyway. When Carter finally gets admitted to his rightful place in Cooperstown, he'll probably wear the awful tri-colored cap of the Expos, where he had most of his great years (exception, 1985-86 with the Mets). BTW, Wouldn't this make Carter the first Expo in the Hall?



"Come to the Dark Side... You Know You Want To!"
The Evil Buddha, spreading Alcoholism, Bad Humor and Chaos since 1971
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
#10 Posted on
Oh Fisk certainly belongs there. I`m just saying his home run catapults him past Carter in most people`s minds.

I haven`t heard the Sports Guy talk, but I still love his columns. His write-up of a Vince-booked Jason Giambi heel turn was great.

Jayson Stark is the Man, though. He wrote for the Philly Inquirer covering the Phillies for years, I always looked forward to his Week in Review, which he still does on ESPN.com.

And thanks to this thread, I spent way too long last night on www.baseball-reference.com. According to its Bill James-esque stats, Ron Santo falls just short of their HOF credentials and is comparable to Dale Murphy and Gary Gaetti. Certainly a very good player, but not quite there.
cfgb
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

Since last post: 3 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87
If someone wouldn't mind, could they leave the link to Giambi's heel turn?




Contact cfgb
Visit my homepage
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 3 hours
AIM:  
#12 Posted on
Personally I tend to agree with Jayson Stark that Fisk had the better career. One of the reasons IS because of his homerun, I don't think Hall of Famers should be only decided by numbers, because first of all there are some players who should be in who don't get the numbers required. And second of all if they continue to compare players stats, then all the offensive players will start to make it easily and all the pitchers will not make it at all. Not to mention Carlton Fisk played more games at catcher than anyone ever did, didn't he?

I do agree Carter should be in the Hall, i just don't think he is just as deserving as Fisk. What if Carter does make it to the Hall of Fame and goes in as the Expos, but the Expos might be contracted by then. Has anyone ever been inducted to the Hall wearing the hat of a team that doesn't exist anymore?
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
#13 Posted on
Originally posted by cfgb
If someone wouldn't mind, could they leave the link to Giambi's heel turn?



http://espn.go.com/page2/s/simmons/011214.html

I found it quicker than I expected.
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#14 Posted on
Quezzy sez:

>And second of all if they continue to compare players
>stats, then all the offensive players will start to make
>it easily and all the pitchers will not make it at all.

That COULD happen, but hopefully the voters will rememember to compare numbers against this era and not some arbiturary benchmark numbers. (Remember to bring this up in 5 or 6 years when Canseco's eligible.)

>What if Carter does make it to the Hall of Fame and goes
>in as the Expos, but the Expos might be contracted by
>then. Has anyone ever been inducted to the Hall wearing
>the hat of a team that doesn't exist anymore?

The closest thing I could find is the Baseball Hall Of Fame's Players By Team lists (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/byteam.htm), which says ALL where they played instead of just the hat. For some reason, Washington Senators and the Texas Rangers are not listed as one continunation (is that a Browns->Ravens thing?) so you could go with that, but otherwise nope.



.
Evil Buddha
Pickled pork








Since: 10.1.02
From: Somerville, MA

Since last post: 2820 days
Last activity: 2218 days
#15 Posted on
Well, Cubs, I'm pretty sure that any such linkage would tie the original Senators to the Twins. If memory serves me right, the way AL expansion worked was the Orioles and Royals, then came a new franchise in Washington also called the Senators and the Seattle Pilots. It was the expansion Senators who went to Texas and I'm darn sure they didn't have any HOF'ers. IIRC, the Pilots then became the Brewers.

Sure I could actually check all of this, but I'm lazy. Besides, if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be suitably attacked.
:-)



"Come to the Dark Side... You Know You Want To!"
The Evil Buddha, spreading Alcoholism, Bad Humor and Chaos since 1971
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#16 Posted on
Yep. I must've screwed that up in my mind.



.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 127 days
Last activity: 94 days
#17 Posted on

The Orioles were not an expansion team. They were the Browns and moved from St. Louis in 1954.

Bill James, in his updated Historical Abstract book, has Ron Santo ranked ahead of Brooks Robinson (which, being from MD, I legally cannot agree with, naturally).

James' Top Ten

1. Schmidt
2. Brett
3. Eddie Matthews
4. Boggs
5. Home Run Baker
6. Santo
7. Brooks
8. Molitor
9. Stan Hack (1932-1947)
10. Darrell Evans

Discuss amongst yourselves.




Odessa Steps Magazine
Dr. Alquimia Magazine
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 333 days
Last activity: 327 days
#18 Posted on

On expansion:

AL:
1961 Senators became the Twins, new Senators team made
1961 Los Angeles Angels
1969 Seattle Pilots
1969 KC Royals
1977 Blue Jays
1977 Mariners

NL:
1962 Mets
1962 Colt 45s (Astros)
1969 Padres
1969 Expos




***Optioned to Pawtucket (IL), April 6***

Evil Buddha
Pickled pork








Since: 10.1.02
From: Somerville, MA

Since last post: 2820 days
Last activity: 2218 days
#19 Posted on
Heh, heh, OOOPPS! Y'know, I thought I was smarter than to say something stupid like the Orioles as an expansion team when I KNEW they were the Browns. I meant to say the Angels. Of course, I still would have gotten the sequence of expansion wrong. Just goes to show, kids, what the crack will do to the memory. Thanks OSteps and E-Fame for correcting my wrong-itude.





"Come to the Dark Side... You Know You Want To!"
The Evil Buddha, spreading Alcoholism, Bad Humor and Chaos since 1971
squiz
Salami








Since: 5.1.02
From: Dover, NH

Since last post: 1120 days
Last activity: 222 days
AIM:  
#20 Posted on
There are plenty of people in the Hall from teams that don't exist. As for ones that actually are wearing a hat from a team that no longer exists:

Ray Dandridge (Newark Eagles)
Joe Rogan (Kansas City Monarchs)
Zack Wheat (Newark Eagles)
Joe Williams (New York Lincoln Giants)

These were Negro League players inducted because of their play in the Negro Leagues and not in MLB.

All other players with hats on have a lineage with a current team.

There are plenty of other franchises that are no longer around that are represented. Remember, not all players are wearing a hat on their plaque. For example:

Buffalo Bisons (National League)
Chicago American Giants (Negro Leagues)
Cleveland Spiders (American Association)
Detroit Stars (Negro Leagues)
Philadelphia Quakers (American Association)
Pittsburgh Crawfords (Negro Leagues)
Providence Grays (National League)

But nothing recent, of course, since no team has dissolved for a long time.




"Either there's order or there's chaos, and you got to choose."
- Bob Dylan
Pages: 1 2 3 Next
Pages: 1 2 3 NextThread ahead: Harry Kalas -- HOF
Next thread: Red Sox
Previous thread: While on the topic of hall of fame...
(1649 newer) Next thread | Previous thread
Wow, the Jays are putting together a pretty decent staff all of a sudden. If they can win 85 games with those jokers from last year, think of what will happen in 2004.
The W - Baseball - Hall of FameRegister and log in to post!

The W™ message board

ZimBoard
©2001-2014 Brothers Zim

This old hunk of junk rendered your page in 0.141 seconds.