MUTigermask
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|  #21 Posted on 8.12.08 1115.54 | Instant Rating: 5.86 | I always hated Maddux as a kid because he always seemed to shut down the Cards, but I always felt he shouldn't have as he didn't seem to have great stuff. Having a better understanding of the game as I've grown up, I realize just how nasty his stuff really was. Watching him throw that little two seamer that runs back over the plate on lefties is a thing of beauty.
I have to say that Maddux is one of the greatest of ANY era, especially when you factor in the era he played. Steroids, juiced balls, smaller ballparks etc. He was dominant, just not in the way a Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller, Walter Johnson were. I'd put him up there with anybody. | spf
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| #22 Posted on 8.12.08 1156.40 | Instant Rating: 5.16 | Originally posted by MUTigermask
I always hated Maddux as a kid because he always seemed to shut down the Cards, but I always felt he shouldn't have as he didn't seem to have great stuff. Having a better understanding of the game as I've grown up, I realize just how nasty his stuff really was. Watching him throw that little two seamer that runs back over the plate on lefties is a thing of beauty.
I have to say that Maddux is one of the greatest of ANY era, especially when you factor in the era he played. Steroids, juiced balls, smaller ballparks etc. He was dominant, just not in the way a Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller, Walter Johnson were. I'd put him up there with anybody.
How do you define dominant? Is dominance just throwing the ball really fast. Or being so far beyond anyone else in the game that it is unprecdented in the modern era. Because Maddux was the latter at his peak. The fact that he didn't do it with a 100 MPH heater shouldn't remove the fact that he was so much better than anyone else in the game for a 4-5 year stretch, including a couple of years almost completely without precedent.
2007 W-League Fantasy Football champion! | MUTigermask
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| #23 Posted on 8.12.08 1211.32 | Instant Rating: 5.86 | | The second option. My point was that he dominated, just in a different way than the guys I listed who had the great fastballs. | spf
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| #24 Posted on 8.12.08 1219.49 | Instant Rating: 5.16 | Originally posted by MUTigermask
The second option. My point was that he dominated, just in a different way than the guys I listed who had the great fastballs.
Fair enough. I read it as diminishing, not as dominant as those guys, rather than doing it in a different way.
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| #25 Posted on 9.12.08 0935.13 | Instant Rating: 3.69 | One thing we haven't noted: Maybe it was mentioned:
The guy won 18 - EIGHTEEN - gold gloves! That is an amazing number. The guy was perhaps the best bunter of his era, maybe all time. Plus, as was noted, he could hit.
Gibson: Nine
Clemens: zero gold gloves
Koufax: zero
Seaver: zero
Maddux - 180 career Sac Bunts
Gibson: 72
Clemens: 18
Seaver: 121
Koufax: 35
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| #26 Posted on 9.12.08 1013.38 | Instant Rating: 5.16 | Gibson didn't sac bunt as much because he could hit a little. He put up a career 544 OPS, with 24 homers. He wasn't a great hitter by any means, but he seems to have been able to hit decent for a pitcher.
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| #27 Posted on 10.12.08 1126.55 | Instant Rating: 3.69 | Originally posted by spf
Gibson didn't sac bunt as much because he could hit a little. He put up a career 544 OPS, with 24 homers. He wasn't a great hitter by any means, but he seems to have been able to hit decent for a pitcher.
I agree with that. I did notice that even though Maddog had some 250 mor ABs, the number of strikeouts between the two was about the same. Clearly, Gibson had a lot more power. Maddux was slyer - similar SB numbers, but Gibson was caught a lot more.
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“That the universe was formed by a fortuitous concourse of atoms, I will no more believe than that the accidental jumbling of the alphabet would fall into a most ingenious treatise of philosophy” - Swift
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