Problem here is that the WCW guys are either old or retired for the most part and the ECW guys are midcard guys for life like Raven, Tazz, Credible and Jerry Lynn. Its not that Benoit and Booker T are being stoped its just this is a very deep time for main event talent. Dont get me wrong i would love to see them be champs and I am sure the day will come.
Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOGI don't think Vince McMahon conciously sits back and says ``Well, Benoit is our best choice to be on top of the company right now, but on the other hand... he DID hold the world title in WCW, so forget it.''
Does he see Benoit, Booker, etc. INFERIOR to the guys WWE made into stars (eg HHH, Angle, Austin)? Absolutely. No arguments there from me. But if he thought that wrestler X would be best for business, he'd do it. Since, say, the title were unified a year-and-a-half ago, the world champions have been: Jericho, HHH, Hogan, Undertaker, Rock, Lesnar, Big Show, Shawn Michaels and now Angle. Five of those guys were in WCW at one point or another, with Jericho and Show making their names down South.
So I don't think that can be used as a reason -- a sole reason, anyways -- for holding people back.
I recognize that there have been plenty of WWE champs who were at one time or another in other promotions. The issue is not the individual per se, but the persona. As "fuelinjected" notes above, people like HHH, Austin, and Big Show underwent major character makeovers after coming to WWE -- The "Big Show" can be champ, but "The Giant" cannot. Note also that Hogan didn't win the belt until after he dropped his nWo colors and returned to his red-and-yellow "Hulkamania" persona from before he left. As for Vince, he has been reported to let his ego get in the way of business.
Originally posted by ges7184But isn't this just a little misleading. It's not like the list of former World champions that competed in WWF/E afterwards is very long. And those that did, I'm hard pressed to think of many who really deserve much of a run at top.
I mean, I never got to see much ECW, but champs that I know about include guys like Mike Awesome, Justin Credible, and Tazz. Quite frankly, I don't think those guys much deserve a run at the top. I can wait and see about Rhyno, maybe some day, but right now it's hard to see him as a World champ.
As far as the AWA goes, only Curt Henning would have deserved a run. Rick Martel probably was just where he needed to be. The only other one I can think of right now is Jerry Lawler, and being from Tennessee, I'm kind of partial to Lawler, but he shouldn't be anywhere near the WWE title.
As far as WCW goes, Flair got a run. So did Big Show. And Hulk Hogan. Exactly who else deserved(s) one? Dusty Rhodes? Ronnie Garvin? Kevin Nash? So you pretty much got Goldberg and Booker T who haven't had a run yet, and a case could be made that they should. But maybe they will. But's that is today, not history.
In the past 20 years, these former NWA/WCW World Champs appeared in the WWF/E without a subsequent World Title run: Harley Race, Terry Funk, Dory Funk Jr., Kerry Von Erich, Dusty Rhodes, Ron Garvin, Ricky Steamboat (and even worse, they gave him the idiotic fire breathing gimmick), Ron Simmons, Lex Luger, Vader, Diamond Dallas Page, Chris Benoit (if it counts), Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, and Booker T. Flair and Hogan generally are exempt from every rule in wrestling, so that leaves Big Slug/Giant as the lone individual who Vince gave the World Title to after holding another company's world title. It could be coincidence, but it is more likely Vince's ego that continues this pattern.
Will the woman who left her nine infants at Shea Stadium, please pick them up. They already scored six in the first off Tom Glavine, and know more letters of the alphabet than John Franco.
Originally posted by tshman122Problem here is that the WCW guys are either old or retired for the most part and the ECW guys are midcard guys for life like Raven, Tazz, Credible and Jerry Lynn.
I think it's moreso the WCW buy-out guys are the ones that are getting the shaft. They were (for the most part) young guys, and while they're not main-event material, they could have been used to re-shape & freshen up the mid-card. Witness guys like Kanyon, Helms, Knoble being used as jobbers. All very talented guys who could have very successful mid-card careers, who are only held back because they're (IMO) WCW buy-out guys. Look at the FBI - built up as a credible heel stable, hanging around guys like Brock & Big Show, only to be squashed by the returning Taker and APA. Look at Chavo - he only got a push because of Tough Enough and the fact that he was related to Eddy.
Its not that Benoit and Booker T are being stoped its just this is a very deep time for main event talent. Dont get me wrong i would love to see them be champs and I am sure the day will come.
I wouldn't hold my breath. They had the chance w/ Booker, but jobbed him out to HHH and kicked him back to the midcard w/ no direction. And Benoit will never be WWE champ.
I think the best answer to this is simply, are ECW or WCW wrestlers shit on in the WWE--obivously not
Then explain to me Kanyon. He's got size, a good move-set, a goofy charisma, is comfortable on the mic, and has been drawing good heel heat despite having no mic time and no defined character. Gets injured, busts his ass to come back, then suffers a shoulder injury, resulting in an infection that could have literally threatened his life. He comes back from that, and has trouble making it on Velocity. This guy is a good-to-great midcard heel waiting to happen, a definite US Title contender if handled correctly, and they've got him jobbing to Orlando Jordan.
And speaking of Jordan, there's another example of the 2nd class citizenship of the WCW guys. Look at Jordan's record - he's beaten Kanyon, Knoble, and Shannon Moore (all buy-out guys) and lost to Crash (!), Cena, and A-Train multiple times (all WWE guys).
Nobody is asking for guys to be given ME pushes (outside of a few exceptions), but is being treated as credible mid-card guys too much to ask?
On the subject of Booker T, I guarantee that he was going to beat HHH at Wrestlemania before they signed Goldberg, and now I guarantee that Goldberg will be the man to take the strap. I personally feel that Booker was the better man, and that Wrestlemania was a much better time, but I can see why they'd want to hold off on taking the strap off of HHH so that Goldberg can do it.
Originally posted by Tenken347On the subject of Booker T, I guarantee that he was going to beat HHH at Wrestlemania before they signed Goldberg, and now I guarantee that Goldberg will be the man to take the strap. I personally feel that Booker was the better man, and that Wrestlemania was a much better time, but I can see why they'd want to hold off on taking the strap off of HHH so that Goldberg can do it.
You guarantee that? Man, I hope you were and are right. I still feel putting the belt on Goldberg is the best chance they have of attracting mainstream attention right now. It also helps the business in the future by showing HHH isn't completely unbeatable. But I just can't say for 100 percent certainty that it was the plan for HHH to drop the belt to Booker, and the same thing with Goldberg. We'll see, I suppose.
Batman Vengeance predictions? A Ricky Flare interview? Plus who the hell is Miguel Huracanrana? All these answers and more in the latest Inside The Ropes!
Originally posted by RKMtwinIf there is any evidence that lends to this glass-ceiling theory, look no further than Ric Flair. Despite the fact that he is arguably THE greatest World Champion of our time and of all time, he was made to look weak after he came in as the 50/50 owner of WWE. He was made to look weak after the brand split. And now he's HHH's lapdog. Go fig.
Probably because he's now TOO OLD to do much in the ring now, and all concerned recognize that. Sure, there's a certain degree of McMahon taking liberties as well, but how hard would you push Flair right now?
When he was a decade younger, he came in as "the Real World's Champion" and had a pair of WWF world title runs before going back to Atlanta.
(One more "outsiders coming in and prospering" exception: the Dudleys are seven-time WWF/E world tag champs.)
"I'm a little dyslexic......earlier, I freed my ass, and I'm hoping that my mind will follow." -- Moon Zappa
That Can-Eire Connection/Real Americans match was really great. I just wish Layfield and Lawler didn't feel the need to tell us it was really great every five seconds. That part wasn't so great. Thanks for not dying, Betty! (Betty's 92, you know.)