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The W - Basketball - Girls HS team wins 100-0 and forfeits because it is the "right thing to do."
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Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=903780

I heard about this game a few days ago. The losing coach was proud of his girls giving 100% in the face of defeat. It looks like they're going to pull out the win without making a basket.

The winning school said:


    "It is shameful and an embarrassment that this happened," Kyle Queal, the head of the school, said in a statement, adding the forfeit was requested because "a victory without honor is a great loss."


I thought that you "play to win the game." Sure they could have eased up when they were up 59-0 at the half, and 88-0 after 3, but they won. According to fans, when they reached 100, they eased up the full court press with 4 mins to play.

If they eased up at 59 or 88 to 0, would it still have been a "victory without honor?"

(edited by Zeruel on 23.1.09 1140)


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MUTigermask
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Since: 8.10.03
From: Columbia MO

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
I'm getting tired of seeing stories like this. It's not the better teams job to stop playing because the other team sucks.
Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.24
Well, listen, it's one thing if you're professional and getting paid to do this job.

But this is high school, where you get very disaparate athletic abilities, and the vast majority of the kids are going to be a professional in something other than athletics, as the NCAA commercials say. In that case, teaching fair play and sportsmanship and the like might very well be more important than a win or a loss.

EDIT: People on Deadspin are saying that Dallas Academy is a school populated entirely with students with learning disabilites. Their website ( http://www.dallas-academy.com/page.asp?=about_us_overview.asp ) seems to corroborate that.

(edited by Mr. Boffo on 23.1.09 1206)
DJ FrostyFreeze
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.32
Read it and weep, fella


I'm with Mr. Boffo. Once you've secured the victory, there's no reason to embarrass anyone.



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bash91
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
Quite frankly, the coach at The Covenant School should be profoundly ashamed by his behavior. There's no shame in being the better team, but it is ridiculous to deliberately seek to humiliate your opponent. For example, I'm currently the JV boys coach for a small (87 kids in the high school) Christian school. Our team is very young and fairly inexperienced with only a few of the boys having played more than a season of organized basketball. We played one of our conference opponents Monday night and got trounced, 75-20, with the game not being as close as the final score might indicate. Their coach, as is traditional for this school, had them come out pressing. They stopped pressing before the end of the first quarter when it was apparent that we couldn't handle the pressure. For the remainder of the game, they played hard and aggressively, but they didn't press and they weren't looking to run up the score. Their coach was extremely apologetic for the final margin of victory and I told him that there was nothing to be ashamed of in the way they played or coached. They were better than us: we knew it and so did they, and they didn't have to attempt to prove it by humiliating us

On the other hand, pressing when you are up by 80 points merely demonstrates that the coach is classless and clueless. Seriously, what lessons are you teaching at that point? It's not like they were really working on some aspect of their game and so could have an excuse. Everything here seems to indicate that they just wanted to get that century and here was their chance.

Finally, nobody said they better team had to stop playing. That's just a strawman to excuse embarrassing behavior. Rather, at least from my perspective already having been on the end of several of these types of games and having another one tonight, the better team has no need, especially at the high school level, to do certain things merely for the purpose of embarrassing their opponent. If you want to humiliate people, and your means of doing that is through high school athletics, please seek professional help and let those of us who actually care about the kids, and not our personal gratification, coach. That way, everyone will be happier and much better off in the long run.

Tim



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DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.42
What happened sucks but why put your team in a situation like that in the first place? If you slack off it's insulting and if you pour it on it is.



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Since: 2.1.02
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
I always felt like if I was going to get an ass-kicking I'd just as soon you go all the way with it, AND if you have backups playing they should be trying to play they way they need to improve, not just get out there to stand around. (However, I agree that "pressing when you are up by 80 points merely demonstrates that the coach is classless and clueless".) What were they supposed to do, play keep-away for a half-hour instead of trying to keep scoring? That would be just as humiliating.

That said, in a lot of states if a high-school football score gets to a certain margin, they just run the clock to shorten the game. That seems like something they might want to consider for cases like this in hoops.



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Rudoublesedoublel
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

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#8 Posted on
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    I always felt like if I was going to get an ass-kicking I'd just as soon you go all the way with it, AND if you have backups playing they should be trying to play they way they need to improve, not just get out there to stand around. (However, I agree that "pressing when you are up by 80 points merely demonstrates that the coach is classless and clueless".) What were they supposed to do, play keep-away for a half-hour instead of trying to keep scoring? That would be just as humiliating.

    That said, in a lot of states if a high-school football score gets to a certain margin, they just run the clock to shorten the game. That seems like something they might want to consider for cases like this in hoops.


I pretty much agree with this.

I'm curious as to how much time starters played and how much time the bench warmers played. Even though it's harsh and the team is up by a billion, if that team is playing reserves who rarely play - don't they deserve the opportunity to play hard? Shouldn't they get to play defense and shoot 3s and do everything else?

I'm oppposed to running up the score just because you can, but the right thing for the losing team to do here would be to graciously deny the forfeit.



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drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.54
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

"Mangini might not have had balls, but he DID have soft, supple breasts." (SEADAWG)


What I'd love to know, and what the article doesn't address, is if/when Covenant yanked their starters. If they sent in the second- and third-string players at halftime, I'm okay with the blowout if only because of what JayJayDean said... are you supposed to just pass the ball for half the game without even trying to do anything because you're up by a lot? If that team's whole system is based on full-court pressure, I'd expect them to keep running it with the backups in there. Then again, if the Covenant coach kept the starters in there, he's a douchenozzle of the highest order (and it appears he's not that kind of guy anyways).

I actually wrote a feature about this sort of situation a couple of years ago, when Connecticut instituted the Cochrane Rule (unofficial name): if a football team wins by more than 50 points, the coach gets suspended for a game. Pretty much every coach I spoke to said that anybody with any integrity would've done whatever they could to hold down the score, rule or no rule, but there was a sense of "we're not going to tell kids to not try to score if they have the chance". Also, they have a mercy rule in lacrosse here, where if a team's up by 12 goals, they go to a running clock. Whenever I've covered a team that had that big of a lead, they'd just pass the ball around and not try to score. Same sort of thing in swimming, too; once a victory's guaranteed, every coach across the board swims their last events as exhibitions, so they don't score.



Leroy
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Since: 7.2.02
From: Huntington, NY

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.33
    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    What happened sucks but why put your team in a situation like that in the first place? If you slack off it's insulting and if you pour it on it is.


I was once on a co-ed softball team that had quite a few ringers playing against a team that... did not. During the top of the first inning, we were up by 10 and they hadn't recorded a single out, so we took the field anyway (to the objection of the umpire, by the way) and loaned them some of our better players. It was no fun for us dominating the other team - in fact, it was really boring and depressing and none of us enjoyed winning in that way. Changing things up made it a lot more fun - until one of their players took a bad hop to the face and had to be rushed to the emergency room.

There are definitely things you can do to mitigate this kind of one-sided scoring - and, frankly, if I were the coach of the dominate team, I might have had two defenders lay back when the other team was on the offensive, or tell my offense to only score after a certain number of passes, or to only make bank shots, etc, etc. Those are still valuable skills a dominate team can use, so it's not like their not getting something out of it and they can still play hard.
Reverend J Shaft
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Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.05
    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    I'm oppposed to running up the score just because you can, but the right thing for the losing team to do here would be to graciously deny the forfeit.


WTF?!?!? The right thing for the losing school to do would be to tell the head of the "winning" (quotes on purpose) school to STFU. The losing team didn't make a single peep about getting blown out. As usual, it's some blathering idiot adult who gets offended on their behalf. The kids even said they moved on and learned from the experience. Why is it never the players that bitch about these things - it's always someone not even playing.

The losing team doesn't have to "graciously" do anything. They already did it.
wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Can I be sexist for a minute and state that the most amazing thing here is a high school girls basketball team scored 100 points? I mean seriously, has the level of play gotten better because I recall a lot of 32-35 type scores from the girls team back when.
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.32
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Can I be sexist for a minute and state that the most amazing thing here is a high school girls basketball team scored 100 points? I mean seriously, has the level of play gotten better because I recall a lot of 32-35 type scores from the girls team back when.


shooting lots of threes and having uncontested layups will certainly help.



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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.89

    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Can I be sexist for a minute and state that the most amazing thing here is a high school girls basketball team scored 100 points? I mean seriously, has the level of play gotten better because I recall a lot of 32-35 type scores from the girls team back when.


Chicago Marshall in their heyday a few seasons ago used to average 90-110 points per game.



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Since: 22.4.02
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.54
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.

"Mangini might not have had balls, but he DID have soft, supple breasts." (SEADAWG)


    Originally posted by wmatistic
    Can I be sexist for a minute and state that the most amazing thing here is a high school girls basketball team scored 100 points? I mean seriously, has the level of play gotten better because I recall a lot of 32-35 type scores from the girls team back when.


That's because they didn't have Cheryl Miller, Lisa Leslie or Epiphanny Prince, I'd assume. The talent disparity in girls basketball is MUCH, MUCH wider than in boys.



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Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30


In our small town here in central Maine, every town is small, but we have more kids than most. I have a 7th grader who plays on what is called the Middle School JV team and a 5th grader that plays on a recreation team. They both play the same team at other schools that lump all their kids in together. This leads to a lot of mismatches both ways. Both of our teams played Whitefield last week on different days. The 7th grade team played them first and lost pretty handily, about 46-32. That being the case, we knew that the 5th graders would get trounced. So after one quarter it was 20-0, and this team slowed the pace down considerably and were much less aggressive. The final score was 41-12 and everybody felt pretty good about it. I thanked their coach and a couple of their players afterward for being good sportsmen about the whole thing. I thought it was pretty classy.




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Since: 11.12.01

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.64
I actually played basketball on a middle school private school team so all of the teams were made up of 6-8th graders, and this sort of thing happened quite a lot. The school I went to was quite large compared to many of the other schools in our league. Really out of the 8-9 schools we played on a regular basis there were maybe 2-3 who we actually competed with. There was one school that consistently had to forfeit games because if anyone on the team was sick or absent, they did not have enough girls to put a team on the court. We on the other hand had 4-5 strings. On the times we did play them, we would switch out our starters by the end of the first quarter, and absolutely everyone on the team got to play by the end of the game. The opposing team had no (or sometimes one) alternate players, so by the end of the game these poor girls were drenched in sweat and about to pass out (they actually had to forfeit a game part way through one time because of an asthma attack, and so we loaned them some of our alternates and played it the rest of the way through as practice.) I remember these games very well because I was 4th string, and it was the most game time I got each season.

Other sports the disparity wasn't quite so bad, but girls basketball always favored the big schools, who didn't just have more players, but more older, taller players. You have to remember that girls are taller than boys for much of the middle school years.

TheOldMan
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Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.91
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      Can I be sexist for a minute and state that the most amazing thing here is a high school girls basketball team scored 100 points? I mean seriously, has the level of play gotten better because I recall a lot of 32-35 type scores from the girls team back when.


    Chicago Marshall in their heyday a few seasons ago used to average 90-110 points per game.


And the Lady Commandos just keep rollin' along (from Friday's Sun-Times)...

Marshall 66, Kelvyn Park 9: The No. 14 Commandos (18-5) rolled over Kelvyn Park behind 14 points from both Adrienne GodBold and Jasmine Poteete.

Marshall coach Dorothy Gaters picked up career win No. 899.




Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
The winning coach refuses to apologize for winning.

From: http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=904560


    "In response to the statement posted on The Covenant School Web site, I do not agree with the apology or the notion that the Covenant School girls basketball team should feel embarrassed or ashamed," Grimes wrote in the e-mail, according to the newspaper. "We played the game as it was meant to be played. My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent, and it will not allow me to apologize for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity."


Also, to reiterate what Mr.Boffo said earlier:



    Dallas Academy has eight girls on its varsity team and about 20 girls in its high school. It is winless over the last four seasons. The academy boasts of its small class sizes and specializes in teaching students struggling with "learning differences," such as short attention spans or dyslexia.

    There is no mercy rule in girls basketball that shortens the game or permits the clock to continue running when scores become one-sided. There is, however, "a golden rule" that should have applied in this contest, said Edd Burleson, the director of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools, said last week. Both schools are members of this association, which oversees private school athletics in Texas.

    The story has received national attention, and the Dallas Academy team has been recognized for refusing to give up during the lopsided contest.


(edited by Zeruel on 25.1.09 2146)
Yahoo.com link, the gals talk about the loss: http://www.yahoo.com/s/1020853

(edited by Zeruel on 25.1.09 2153)

-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.85
Perhaps 100-0 is ridiculous, but what happened to the pre-Oprahization of America philosophy that if some team stuck it to you, you filed it in the back of your mind and used it as incentive to get payback the next time you played? Or, if not that, send someone at the end of the bench into the game to enforce the no-layup philosophy? I remember getting blown out on my homecourt by 40 in high school to the point where I was begging to get into the game with a cast on my foot to throw a cheap shot, and remembering that feeling when we sang We Are the Champions leaving the court when we got payback in the regionals a few months later. And, isn't this new wave of thought akin to promoting point-shaving? You can win, but only by so much sounds like trying to get a win while blowing a cover.
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I really hated this trade up until the moment it was learned that the Raef Contract of Doom might finally be exported, and somehow to someone not named Isiah Thomas. Still hope they trade Telfair, but, at worst, they let him walk in another year.
- redsoxnation, Telfair's a Celtic (2006)
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