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The W - Pro Wrestling - Girl NXT #29 #3.1 9/7/10 (Page 2)
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Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 53 days
Last activity: 51 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.87
Kaval hasn't worked?

So Gail counts as a TNA knck-off girl despite being in WWE for years before her TNA stint, but R-Truth's roots are WWE after spending less than twelve months there as a glorified jobber back in 2000?

AJ Styles shall no longer be known as a TNA original after that three months on contract he spent with WCW back in 2001.

Also great: the idea that Jeff Hardy went to TNA to "hone his craft".

And for an encore:

    Originally posted by lotjx
    I do think shoving Melissa, Gail, Kong and say ODB on this show would scream TNA Knock-off.


But populating TNA with Nash, Sting, Flair, Hogan, Tommy Dreamer, Foley, and on and on doesn't scream "WWE/WCW/ECW knock-off", right? And main-eventing their version of WrestleMania with three high-profile WWE firings/drug-taking walkouts is far less egregious an example of potential mimicry?

Argh why do I feel so driven to respond.

Just to underscore: I wish Vince would hire Kong too, but his reason have everything to do with her being a 300lb black chick and little if nothing to do with her being in TNA for the past few years.
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    Cherleader Melissa or a Sara del Rey in this season. Not only does Cole get to do the 'she may have wrestled around the world, but how many WrestleManias has she main evented?!?!" bit for a third cycle, but they'd surely have everyone ridiculing her looks for not being Playboy enough.

Wait a minute. There are people who would be opposed to Melissa in Playboy?!



2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
dMp
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Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.78
    Originally posted by lotjx
    You can't tell me they won't make money off of Kong. Yet, she was the face of TNA for awhile and they are probably hesitant to hire her. Granted, she is no longer with the company and maybe after a year away from TNA, she will be hired, but why Vince hasn't hired her or even Melissa who has the look is beyond me.


Well, unifying their women's title probably means that the Divas are gonna be even less of a factor in their programming.
So why bother sign a true 'monster' like Kong, when you can do the same type of booking with Beth Phoenix (who still has the look) and why bother trying to sign Melissa or any other talented woman when you can get some models for cheap?

From a wrestling fan POV you are 100% correct.
From WWE's business pov there is no need to spend that money and use your resources on Kong or someone like that.

Plus, I have to assume that the Divas make less money in general so there's a good chance someone like Sarah Del Rey or Cheerleader Melissa makes about the same working for several Indy promotions where they can actually do the matches they want to do.
So the talented ones are probably less inclined to sign.

This would be different from the male indy wrestlers.
In comparison; male wrestlers can dream and work towards having a main event match at wrestlemania. The women have to hope they get to wrestle in a 3 minute tag match with all the other divas surrounding the ring as lumberjills.




Avatar Mud
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 55 days
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#24 Posted on
    Originally posted by dMp
    Plus, I have to assume that the Divas make less money in general so there's a good chance someone like Sarah Del Rey or Cheerleader Melissa makes about the same working for several Indy promotions where they can actually do the matches they want to do.
    So the talented ones are probably less inclined to sign.

    This would be different from the male indy wrestlers.
    In comparison; male wrestlers can dream and work towards having a main event match at wrestlemania. The women have to hope they get to wrestle in a 3 minute tag match with all the other divas surrounding the ring as lumberjills.



I would like to point out that Gail Kim left TNA because she was offered more money by WWE to work 3 minute tag matches and stand around as a lumberjill at WrestleMania. Most women in the indys, if they were fortunate enough to have the look WWE requires, would do the same.



@BackoftheHead

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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    Kaval hasn't worked?

    -Has it? He won NXT in a really terrible crowd. Hopefully, he does good things, but its too early to tell plus I doubt he is going to get the push that Nexus got. I hope he does good things, I like him, but now that he is on Smackdown, its wait and see time. Yet, so far so good. Plus, you didn't make him as part of your list.

    So Gail counts as a TNA knck-off girl despite being in WWE for years before her TNA stint, but R-Truth's roots are WWE after spending less than twelve months there as a glorified jobber back in 2000?

    -I am not sure I want to know what knck-off is. Gail is a weird case, because she was terrible in her first run then she went to TNA, got amazing and now is back to terrible again. I have no idea why this occurred other then she is their for the paycheck and is waiting to go back to TNA or TNA really hide her flaws. Yet, I identify her more as a Knockout then a diva. Mainly, because she did good work there. Like I said for us old timers, we know him as K-Quick. He really improved during his TNA time and he has come back to WWE.

    AJ Styles shall no longer be known as a TNA original after that three months on contract he spent with WCW back in 2001.

    -The difference WWE is around, if WCW were still around, he might even be in TNA or there may not even be a TNA if WCW was a round.

    Also great: the idea that Jeff Hardy went to TNA to "hone his craft".

    - Jeff went, because he had nowhere else to go. I am still shocked TNA took him back after the mess he caused. Yet, WWE took him back after being in worse after TNA and he went on to have a good to great career in WWE then the moment he walks into the TNA door, he is wash-up weird how that works.

    And for an encore:

      Originally posted by lotjx
      I do think shoving Melissa, Gail, Kong and say ODB on this show would scream TNA Knock-off.


    But populating TNA with Nash, Sting, Flair, Hogan, Tommy Dreamer, Foley, and on and on doesn't scream "WWE/WCW/ECW knock-off", right? And main-eventing their version of WrestleMania with three high-profile WWE firings/drug-taking walkouts is far less egregious an example of potential mimicry?


    -But that is the knock on TNA. Its a good knock on them being the new WCW with now a hint of ECW. Most threads about TNA has some knock about WCW or has been WWE guys. No one is denying that. Yet, what do you want TNA to do? Be ROH which Heyman this week declared close to death.

    You need star power and since the only engine producing star power is the WWE, you have to go there to get it. You don't have to take all the cast offs which I wish TNA would stop doing, but if you want to pass on Kurt, Foley, Flair, Hogan, Sting, RVD and Jeff Hardy, be my guest just don't expect to be on TV long or at all.

    WWE could gobble up the currently unemployed Knockouts, but they won't. And of the many reasons, is that they don't want someone to say "Hey, they just took all of the girls who were in TNA, I wonder why?" Which would lead to a number of questions about the division. If they took one TNA girl, I am cool with that, now if you take two or more with a former TNA KO then throw them into a division with two women doing a poor imitation of something TNA is doing its going to look like Vince is ripping off TNA.




    Argh why do I feel so driven to respond.

    Just to underscore: I wish Vince would hire Kong too, but his reason have everything to do with her being a 300lb black chick and little if nothing to do with her being in TNA for the past few years.


-Yeah, it probably does, because while Vince wants a PG era, he likes money more and Kong could bring him in money.
Is it the main reason, I doubt it, but its probably a reason.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 53 days
Last activity: 51 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.87
Considering your stellar grasp of English, you're on wafer-thin ice when pointing out a misspelling. And "knock-off" is the term you used.

I give up. I could go through that rambling, poorly-structured response and pick apart everything you've said (I did name Kaval, Jeff Hardy HAS been by-and-large terrible since returning to TNA, TNA's much-needed "star power" has done nothing to the ratings or company awareness, how in fuck is Gail more identifiable with TNA than Ron Killings, and on and on), but you steadfastly refuse to EVER back down on ANY half-assed, ill thought-out point you make no matter how comprehensively it's taken apart. Nobody not named "lotjx" would look at a NXT season 3 starring Kong, ODB and Cheerleader Melissa and think "OMG Vince is totally ripping off Dixie Carter".

You are vastly delusional about the depth of Vince McMahon's feelings towards, TNA, as well as completely clueless about how he operates when it comes to hiring Divas, despite well over a decade of hirings and firings underscoring the fact that he simply isn't interested in women who can work.

CRZ, Justin, all other mods, I apologise for being heated. I will retreat to my enclave now.
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 23 hours
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
lotjx, I find most of your posts dumb, ill thought out, and a waste of the two seconds it takes for me to scroll by them. Maybe if we talked in real life, we'd be great friends and I'd find you interesting and compelling, but on this internet chat board, I've got you rated as a "1" only because some day I'm going to accidentally read something of yours and joyfully give you the zero you've worked very hard for. I just want to be up front about this so the next paragraph doesn't feel like I'm talking behind your back.

Hey, kids? lotjx is going to post a lot of stuff you find outrageously wrong. Sometimes even easily able to refute wrong! Your points may be valid and easy, but lotjx is also going to move as much as a pole in hardened cement. He may sway a little bit, but he's pretty committed to what he believes. If you attempt to engage him, you're actually contributing to the problem. You're only creating more replies! Every single thread he posts in his being derailed. Please stop!

Anyway, back to the point.


    Wait a minute. There are people who would be opposed to Melissa in Playboy?!


I am making the courageous stance FOR seeing attractive woman naked. Not only would I put Cheerleader Melissa in that category, but I'd totally go to the SHIMMER taping tomorrow if you could hook that up with her. *

But this is the promotion that runs long storylines about how Mickie James is too fat, told people they rejected AAA's Sexi Star because she was out of shape, and recruit most of their women by flipping thru bikini magazines. It doesn't seem much of a stretch to say they'd spend a 13 weeks going after a woman's flaws (existent or not) just for the cruel joy of doing it. THAT would've been more fascinating TV than 13 weeks of women having bad matches and dancing and such.

It doesn't work with two indy women, because they only need single out one. And it's pretty clear that any good WWE's women match is a happy accident and pretty beside the point.

* - pondering going anyway!

(edited by thecubsfan on 10.9.10 1105)


thecubsfan.com - luchablog
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    I am making the courageous stance FOR seeing attractive woman naked. Not only would I put Cheerleader Melissa in that category, but I'd totally go to the SHIMMER taping tomorrow if you could hook that up. *

    * - pondering going anyway!

I would pay to watch someone try to make the proposal to her that she reprise the Kimona striptease from ECW.

And really, even if everyone keeps their clothes on, how can you pass up 6 hours of wrestling and $1 beers?!



2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 45 min.
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    Considering your stellar grasp of English, you're on wafer-thin ice when pointing out a misspelling. And "knock-off" is the term you used.

    I give up. I could go through that rambling, poorly-structured response


This is pretty mean, lotjx was being nice and responding to points! And has at least been less passive-aggressive about WWE than he used to be even while holding opinions on TNA that I can sometimes hardly fathom.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    Gail is a weird case, because she was terrible in her first run then she went to TNA, got amazing and now is back to terrible again. I have no idea why this occurred


My idea is that Gail was 90% a creation of Awesome Kong and isn't very good (at wrestling, I mean -- she's incredible by the standards of most WWE girls, and could still be a good babyface for them just by being cute and hitting half her highspots). At the same time, it's not like she's had any kind of extended match with Michelle McCool (probably their least worst technical worker) or Beth Phoenix (closest thing to potentially recreating the Gail/Kong dynamic) to actually show anything, and it'd be hard for a high-flyer to look good when they're relying on incompetent people to be in the right position to take their moves.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 10.9.10 1302)
Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
I like Awesome Kong. I'd love it if WWE would bring her in and have her demolish every diva on the roster and run roughshod over the division. But, WWE isn't going to do that because it will not make money for them. There is not enough interest in women's "sports entertainment" to invest in women who are talented in-ring workers. The ROI from the women come from the sale of swimsuit magazines, the revenue WWE derives from web page hits, etc.

I actually blame Sunny. She was the original diva and her popularity (and the revenue she generated without ever competing in a match) likely convinced McMahon that he didn't need women wrestlers, that he just needed attractive women to make some money for him.

I don't blame Vince - he's in the business to make money, and he's damn good at it.



"I'm on my time with everyone." - Kurt Cobain
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 55 days
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#31 Posted on
    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    I actually blame Sunny. She was the original diva and her popularity (and the revenue she generated without ever competing in a match) likely convinced McMahon that he didn't need women wrestlers, that he just needed attractive women to make some money for him.


WHAT?! Did the era from 2001-2006 until Trish Stratus retired when WWE attempted their first and only serious and successful attempt at creating a viable women's division centered around Trish with Lita, Jazz, Molly Holly, Victoria, Mickie James, Melina, etc. never happen?

I swear I'm going to go batshit insane if I keep reading this thread. See you all next week for Girl NXT episode 2.



@BackoftheHead

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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 45 min.
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    "Why do the announcers keep calling these women "girls"? They didn't refer to male NXT Rookies as "boys"."

    Yeah, really, Justin, thread starter and titler. "Girl NXT?"



vindicated
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
    I like Awesome Kong. I'd love it if WWE would bring her in and have her demolish every diva on the roster and run roughshod over the division. But, WWE isn't going to do that because it will not make money for them. There is not enough interest in women's "sports entertainment" to invest in women who are talented in-ring workers. The ROI from the women come from the sale of swimsuit magazines, the revenue WWE derives from web page hits, etc.

    I actually blame Sunny. She was the original diva and her popularity (and the revenue she generated without ever competing in a match) likely convinced McMahon that he didn't need women wrestlers, that he just needed attractive women to make some money for him.

    I don't blame Vince - he's in the business to make money, and he's damn good at it.

This is a false dichotomy though. The WWE made truckloads of money off of the women during the Trish Stratus/Lita/Molly time period. There are plenty of women who range from very attractive to outright gorgeous who have wrestling skill. I have trouble believing Vince would have trouble making money off workers like Rayna Von Tosh (123nonstop.com), Jessie McKay (glorywrestling.com), Nicole Matthews (glorywrestling.com), or even the aforementioned Cheerleader Melissa (femalefightleague.com) in the same way he makes money now.

Though I guess if their standards are to where Sexi Star was too unfit/unattractive, then I could be wrong.





2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.68
WWE also has a top notch makeup department and they make the women nearly unrecognizable so it's not like any moderately attractive girl couldn't be glammed up like Melina. But for them I think it's less about the face than it is about the body.
J. Kyle
Boudin blanc








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

Since last post: 20 days
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Y!:
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.90
Sing this special song. It's just for you.
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    But for them I think it's less about the face than it is about the body.
The "unacceptable" shape Star is in is a shape without implants or Keibler/Kelly Kelly level of gorgeousness to make up for her unpardonable sin of being built like a real human being.

I wish John Belushi hadn't gone to TNA to hone his craft.

(edited by J. Kyle on 10.9.10 0135)


Click to see it fullsize! Thanks Jen!
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
The real missed opportunity here isn't the failure to bring in Kong or push Gail Kim or anything of that order. The missed opportunity is that at the end of Raw this week, the RKOs to Barrett, Young, Edge and Shamus didn't lead to Orton nailing Cena with an RKO as well, only to turn around and be face to abdomen with Aloisa, causing Orton to do one of his full-body spazzouts before getting chokeslammed.

Also, this season should have been called NeXtShe.
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.47
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Also, this season should have been called NeXtShe.

We got NXT.



You askew my mirror. I askew yours.

Behold, my plunger.
Rudoublesedoublel
Potato korv








Since: 2.1.02
From: Kentucky - Home of the 8 time NCAA Champ Wildcats

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by Rudoublesedoublel
      I actually blame Sunny. She was the original diva and her popularity (and the revenue she generated without ever competing in a match) likely convinced McMahon that he didn't need women wrestlers, that he just needed attractive women to make some money for him.


    WHAT?! Did the era from 2001-2006 until Trish Stratus retired when WWE attempted their first and only serious and successful attempt at creating a viable women's division centered around Trish with Lita, Jazz, Molly Holly, Victoria, Mickie James, Melina, etc. never happen?

    I swear I'm going to go batshit insane if I keep reading this thread. See you all next week for Girl NXT episode 2.


I also remember tons of bra and panty matches, Lawler screaming for puppies, the women wrestlers being accessories to the men, etc.

In my opinion, even during this period they always focused on the looks and the other stuff too. I don't remember WWE letting the women just have matches (without objectifying them) since before the days of Sunny.



"I'm on my time with everyone." - Kurt Cobain
J. Kyle
Boudin blanc








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

Since last post: 20 days
Last activity: 10 days
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Y!:
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.90
Sing this special song. It's just for you.
AJ has a dog named Kagome.

Inuyasha's steep quality drop off aside, she wins.



Click to see it fullsize! Thanks Jen!
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If we are discussing cheap DVD's, came across what was 4 for $11 for Austin/Foley World Class/USWA/Global, and Booker T (Global) along with Hennig/Bockwinkle (AWA '87), Lawler/JYD ('89 USWA), Orton Jr.
- redsoxnation, Really Cheap Wrestling tapes (2004)
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