Originally posted by StaggerLeeZim never grabbed onto Pedro. He was busy getting his head wrenched around and being thrown to the ground, by an athlete in his prime.
Zims actions doesnt absolve Perdos actions. Neither should have happened. Neither would have if Pedro wasnt head hunting to begin with.
Aww geez... where to start... You're right, Zim didn't grab Pedro. He had his arm back, ready to throw a punch. Pedro was defending himself, and for that, he was okay. Not sure I'd back him up for the whole head thing (maybe if he was pointing out Posada's incongruously shaped head) but he was fine with the Zim thing. Zim STILL should've stayed on the bench, but if I was him, I'd probably be pissed enough to act.
Originally posted by StaggerLeeYep, dump Clemens, he only went on to win TWO Cy Yound awards in Toronto, and one in New York. Flabby and out of shape,and mowing down batters.
Maybe he was motivated enough about getting kicked to the curb that he actually got in shape. It's entirely plausible to believe that, and that he wouldn't have done half as well if he had stayed in Boston and stewed.
Originally posted by StaggerLeeAnd, once again, I will reiterate, that Pedro, the Piece of shit, threw an old man to the ground. Gutless. He's a big tough man when he can bean you with a 95MPH fastball in the back of the head, but when an old man gets near him, all he can do is look like a bitch and thrown him to the ground. Still no different than Will Cordero hitting his wife, and saying "she hit me first".
You say that like anyone's DEFENDING Wil Cordero. I suppose the Yankees have never employed turds?
Originally posted by StaggerLeeAnd, if not for the Yankees, your Boston Red Sox would have the highest Payroll in the American league. So stop talking shit about how the Yanks are ruining the game by spending, because like I said before you guys are just spending STUPIDLY. I mean, where the hell do you spend 108 million? Please, tell me!
And if not for the Tigers, the Devil Rays would've had the worst record in the AL. Your point is...? You've outspent other franchises by so much that it IS a factor. Besides, you're neglecting a minor detail like a change in ownership and philosophy. Going into this season, we went with the low-cost, sabermetrically productive players strategy that's worked so well for, say, Oakland. We're still saddled with shitty contracts (Ramirez, anyone?) made by an asshat of a GM (who's now had to resort to ACTING to find work).
Face it. The Red Sox are not perfect. But that doesn't mean the Yankees are. I know of plenty of intelligent Yankee fans (hell, I DATE one). Times like this that make me wish the Brothers Zim would bring back the "Don't be an ass" title for the board. (Yes, that goes for both sides.)
Originally posted by StaggerLeeMatsui, Giambi, John FLaherty, David Wells Mike Mussina, JOse Contreras and Roger Clemens. The only people on the Yankees Roster who were picked up via free agency.
What you neglect to mention here is that they're one of a few franchises in baseball that can actually afford to go out and get one or two of the top free agents EVERY YEAR, in addition to resigning their own guys at top-shelf contracts. (Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Pettitte, Rivera, and Soriano when its his turn). AND, they're also able to take on huge contracts in the middle of the season if they still need help, which not a lot of teams can do.
Cub Fear looms for fans in Atlanta, San Francisco, and Florida.
I'll give the Yankees credit, they took advantage of opportunities, that's what a good team does. And, in a possibly sickening way, I might root for them in the World Series, because the Marlins winning twice in 6 years is probably a more disgusting prospect than the Yankees winning again. Team can't even draw 6,000 fans to their 2002 home opener and they can get win twice in 6 years just boggles the mind and moves me closer to atheism.
Welcome to the hell that is a Canadian NHL fan watching the Devils win Stanley Cups.
There was a comment made earlier about Boston's $102 million payroll and how it's the second-highest in the AL so we shouldn't feel sorry for them. $102 million is still $80 MILLION FREAKING DOLLARS less than New York. Hell, most teams don't even have an eighty million-dollar payroll. If you throw that much money at something, even with inept management, you can afford to make mistakes (i.e. Raul Mondesi)
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Bringing up the argument that Clemens was in the same shape in Toronto when he won his two Cy Young's as he was in Boston is insane. The Brando analogy was right on. Clemens wanted insane money from Boston for what he was at that time. He wasn't their number 1 starter anymore, he looked more pregnant than Shawn Kemp, and the Boston fans already began turning against him. God damn right he got motivated and actually did something in the offseason besides eating porkrinds dipped in butter with a fine glaze of lard. And please, for the love of god, stop with the fucking Wil Cordero references. No one is defending him. Boston let him go after they found out what he did, which actually shows some class. And as a Yankee fan, you shouldn't be pointing the finger either, Stagger. If memory serves correctly, the Yankees picked up both Darryl Strawberry and Doc Gooden, both of whom were hardcore drug addicts and in Strawberry's case, a wifebeater. They employed a man so horrible that he actually beat Halle Berry more than once, David Justice. They employed a man who holds the record for returning from drug suspensions in Steve Howe. I think he came back after testing positive for cocaine 7 times. I might be wrong about the number, but I know that it was more than 3 times. So once again, please, don't bring up any arguments involving Wil Cordero and the character of a team. Redsoxnation: You mean you're not an athiest already? Some fan you are. I love the Mets and haven't believed in the existance of a higher power since the 88 implosion.
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When Clemens was run out of Boston, he was indeed out of shape. He worked his way through it and won three more Cy Young awards.
The Will Cordero reference was initially made to show that the Yankees didnt corner the market on bad people playing ball. Then he was used as an analogy of a person who is obviously physically superior assaulting somebody who is obviously physically inferior, as in the Zim/Pedro situation.
Howe had 7 suspensions, I beleive, and I didnt like him being a Yankee when he was there. I liked Straw, until he beat his wife, and it wasnt common knowlege (at least that I knew of) that Justice smacked his wife around until after he was out of baseball.
Overall, the Yankees have given Gooden and Straw TOO many chances. I agree about that.
BTW everybody, I just want to say thanks for all the spirited debate, it is enjoyable.
Originally posted by WhitebaconAgain I ask: WHAT THE FUCK WAS A 72 YEAR OLD MAN DOING TRYING TO START SHIT WITH A PROFESSIONAL ATHELETE IN HIS PRIME??? For God's sake, he's 72 years old. The old shithead should have shown some sense. For him to not be held accountable by some of you people for his involvement in that altercation is ridiculous. He charged Pedro, threw a punch, and grabbed on to him. He's lucky Pedro didn't drill him with a right hand. But, since he's old (and a Yankee), he doesn't have to be held responsible for his actions I guess. Just like Roger.
Wait a minute, Hogan isn't on the Yankees. Oh wait.. you're talking about Don Zimmer.. Oh how embarassing.. don't mind me, continue.
First of all, I'll just say, yes, I'm a Yankee fan. But I'm no mindless Yankee fan, or at least I believe. I grew up during the 80's and early 90's cheering the Yankees when all they did was "dissappoint" year after year. The Yankees always had a high payroll to get stars on their team, but the 80's and early 90's proved that it was no means of guaranteed success. If you look at their team now, yes, the money has either got the players there, or kept certain players there, but the most marquee, by paper, I'd say is Giambi & Clemens. The other guys are great role players. And the reason the payroll is so high for the Yankees is that Steinbrenner, as slimy as he can be at times, is a good investor and more than that, the fans go to the games. Even when they were losing before, many fans went to their games. They weren't sell-outs but very good attendance for a losing team. Boston is the same thing, the fans support their team, even when they are losing. Thats why Boston's payroll is good too. Other teams and fans who blame both Boston and NY Yankees for their payrolls, have to look at their owners instead, or hell, their fans.
Now, I just wanna say to all the Boston fans, what a series. And thats in no way a disrespect. Your team was flat out amazing. They made this this most suspenseful Yankee series I've watched EVER. Sure Arizona brought them to 7 games too, and THAT was World Series. But this series, was WORLD SERIES to me. It was emotional, thrilling, and just great baseball, aside from the scuffles in Game 3. Personally, I love the Boston fans, and wanna know the truth? As a TRUE Yankee fan, I'll say this. Of course I liked the fact the Yankees advanced. But you know what? I wouldn't have truly minded of the Red Sox went. Not at all. I think it takes a true fan to be able to tip your hat off to the other set of fans whose team deserved it. The Red Sox played great. Look at the Nielson's ratings and the rest of the US agrees. And I understand the hurt you all felt when they lost. I'm a BIG KNICK fan. I've never seen them win the title, but come so friggin close. I think the hardest for me as a fan was the 99 Finals. Sure, I figured they'd lose, but y'kno, they were the 8th seeded team that year, and going that far was just awesome.
Hell to be honest, I was saying to a bunch of people, I even think its a better story if the Red Sox made it. A GREAT STORY if both Red Sox and Cubs went. I sure as hell would've watched the World Series. In the end, I'm not sad per se, because yeah, the team I rooted for made it, but by replying I just wanted to let you Boston fans know that there are Yankee fans out there that not only respect your Red Sox but also thought they were awesome. Here's hoping for some future success. And you know what? Skrew that damn curse. I want them to win one day to show there are no curses in baseball.
Well, that's another one crossed of the "List o' Things I Never Thought I'd Say."
Sometimes I ask myself why I watch WWE after all the crap it's given me. HLA, necro, HHH, and so on. And then it hits me. That one simple phrase that can be modified and used for anything that gets you down, yet makes you keep coming back.
Every episode has the potential to be the best one ever, and I'll be damned if I'm going to miss it after sitting through this shit.
Originally posted by WhitebaconI remember hearing about the Justice/Berry (Halle Berry!!!WTF?) While Justice was still with the Bravos, but for some reason, a big deal was not made of it.
Wanna bet? Back in the AL days, we Brewers fans in the outfield bleachers always let Justice know about it. Every time he took his position in the outfield, we busted out the "Haaaaaaa-lleeeeeeeee...Beeeeeeeeerrrryyyyyy" chants.
Hell, it was either that or actually watch the Brewers. *shudders in horror*
Star wipe, and...we're out. Thrillin' ain't easy.
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This *was* the story back in those days. Juiced ball - wound tight. Lousy 2nd rate pitiching due to exapansion. Other than McGwire's "Andro" issue, no one cared much about steroids until Jose's book and Caminitti's Mea Culpla.