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The W - Current Events & Politics - Gay warning on Spongebob video?!?!?
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Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.71
I swear some people have nothing better to do than go out try to stir up shit ... now some Christian group is linking homosexuality to a Spongebob Squarepants video. WHEN WILL THIS NONSENSE END?!?!?!?

Everytime I read something about one of these Christian groups stating that something is wrong and we're all going to hell, I can't help but think about my favorite Family Guy line ...

Peter: Look at me. I'm a Christian. I'm reading the Bible

EDIT: Sorry, in my haste, I left out the link in which I read the story.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/20/sponge.bob.reut/index.html

(edited by Mayhem on 21.1.05 1535)
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Since: 9.12.01
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.99
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.71
Dobson's response (family.custhelp.com) to the usual stereotypical hysteria.

Tim



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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.41
    Originally posted by bash91
    Dobson's response (family.custhelp.com) to the usual stereotypical hysteria.

    Tim


Uh, I don't know if you're trying to defend Dobson or not, but he isn't being misinterpreted. There is no mention anywhere in the video about "sexual identity," or anything even remotely similar. He, quite simply, has pulled this claim out of his ass, and, shockingly, looks stupid doing it.


Upon further inspection, it seems that Dobson has gotten WeAreFamily confused with the We Are Family Foundation. Even without their notice, it took me about 5 minutes to realize the two groups were completely seperate.

(edited by eviljonhunt81 on 23.1.05 1135)


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Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.71
I hate to defend Dobson, because he's usually a waste of space, but I stand by my statement of stereotypical hysteria and false allegations. For example, Dobson never says that the video contains mention of sexual identity, he actually references (family.custhelp.com) the Tolerance Pledge (wearefamilyfoundation.org) which clearly says
    Originally posted by We Are Family Foundation
    Tolerance is a personal decision that comes from a belief that every person is a treasure. I believe that America's diversity is its strength. I also recognize that ignorance, insensitivity and bigotry can turn that diversity into a source of prejudice and discrimination.

    To help keep diversity a wellspring of strength and make America a better place for all, I pledge to have respect for people whose abilities, beliefs, culture, race, sexual identity or other characteristics are different from my own.
emphasis added.

Given that, I'd hardly say that he's "pulled this claim out his ass." Additionally, if you actually looked at the source of the video (wearefamilyfoundation.org), you'd note that it does indeed come from the We Are Family Foundation as Dobson originally suggested and not from We Are Family.

Look, I really don't care if Dobson and Focus on the Family get pilloried because I have real issues with a lot of what they do, but I most certainly object when people criticize him or them or lump all Christians together with him and can't be bothered to get the facts straight. You may disagree with what he's doing, but at least be honest in your disagreement instead of doing the exact same things of which you accuse him.

Tim



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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.41
I know that the video comes from the We Are Family Foundation. In fact, I said the exact same thing. I was merely guessing that Dobson had gotten the two organizations confused. Apparently, that is not the case. He, instead, objects to a line in their pledges which says "I wont hate people who are different." Huh.


    Look, I really don't care if Dobson and Focus on the Family get pilloried because I have real issues with a lot of what they do, but I most certainly object when people criticize him or them or lump all Christians together with him and can't be bothered to get the facts straight. You may disagree with what he's doing, but at least be honest in your disagreement instead of doing the exact same things of which you accuse him.


What the hell are you talking about? I never "lumped all Christians together," and probably never will. In fact, I never even used the word "Christian" in my post. I was explicitly talking about Dobson, and to act like I'm somehow just as bigoted because I paint all Christians with the same brush is both wrong and stupid. I do disagree with Dobson on a lot. In this case, he seems to be implying that homosexuals are secretly recruiting children, or something, by usurping popular cartoon characters. Here's what he says in the CNN article:


    Their inclusion of the reference to 'sexual identity" within their 'tolerance pledge' is not only unnecessary, but it crosses a moral line


Perhaps it is unnecessary. Perhaps homosexuals are openly accepted in society, and we have become the most tolerant society on the planet, what the fuck is the point of any of this in the first place? However, by claiming that teaching kids no to hate other people for something as innocuos as their sexual preference is crossing a "moral line," I think Dobson illustrates perfectly just why we need to teach kids this schmaltzy crap in the first place. If responsible adults can't get over the fact that some dudes like to sleep with other dudes, then, yes, we do need to start teaching children that it's ok, or else they'll grow up with just as many hang ups and somehow their lives will be miserable because other people like doing different things. Good God, what a horrible world it'll be when we all stop worrying about what turns other people on.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.71
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    What the hell are you talking about? I never "lumped all Christians together," and probably never will. In fact, I never even used the word "Christian" in my post. I was explicitly talking about Dobson, and to act like I'm somehow just as bigoted because I paint all Christians with the same brush is both wrong and stupid.

    Originally posted by Mayhem
    swear some people have nothing better to do than go out try to stir up shit ... now some Christian group is linking homosexuality to a Spongebob Squarepants video. WHEN WILL THIS NONSENSE END?!?!?!?

    Everytime I read something about one of these Christian groups stating that something is wrong and we're all going to hell, I can't help but think about my favorite Family Guy line ...

    Peter: Look at me. I'm a Christian. I'm reading the Bible


Context is everything. I included the reference to Christians because of the first post in this thread, which should have been obvious. Additionally, the sentence construction in my post is such that my criticism is obviously leveled at more than one individual or group, specifically those who criticize Dobson and those who lump all Christians together with him. I still stand by the generic criticism because you didn't bother to fact check and instead, along with Olbermann in his screed and Mayhem in his post, simply voiced a factually incorrect stereotypical criticism about Dobson.

As for the rest of your post, all I'll say is that you are entitled to your opinion about morality and Dobson is entitled to his.

Tim




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Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.56
After watching Olberman on MSNBC, I have to admit that, even as a supporter of Dobson, I thought Dobson was coming totally out of left field. Olberman's entire piece was designed to make Dobson look like a complete lunatic for objecting to a video with no overt sign of homosexual identity. EVEN I was taken in by poor old Keith.

Quite frankly, I never watch his cynical, off-beat-referencing ass, and this gives me all the more reason never to tune to him again. To basically manufacture the facts this obviously on such a touchy and controversial issue for our country is uncalled for. Obviously there were more people promoting this story in the media than just Olberman, but he certaintly seems to have tried to run with it. For that it would seem he deserves some level of scorn.

I don't care if a nuclear bomb goes off in Washington tomorrow and Olberman is the only person covering it. I won't watch.

DMC
eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.36
    Originally posted by bash91
    I still stand by the generic criticism because you didn't bother to fact check and instead, along with Olbermann in his screed and Mayhem in his post, simply voiced a factually incorrect stereotypical criticism about Dobson.


From Dobson's "answer."


    What we vehemently object to is using these beloved characters that's beyond the comprehension of 6 and 7-year old children


The cartoon characters only appear in one place, and that place has no mention of sexuality. So, even in Dobson's "answer," he's still talking about the video.

(edited by eviljonhunt81 on 23.1.05 2205)


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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.03
Yeah, I can't understand Dobson's logic.

He's saying that because of the things that the organization is in favor of, one of them being tolerance of a person's sexual identity, the kid's will get that message, even though that message is now where in the video that the organization shows.

That's like saying that Philip Morris showing those dumb "We help the community" ads is causing kids to start smoking.



NOTE: The above post makes no sense. We apologize for the inconvenience.
bash91
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.71
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
    he cartoon characters only appear in one place, and that place has no mention of sexuality. So, even in Dobson's "answer," he's still talking about the video.


I can't believe I've spent this much time and energy defending James Dobson, but once more into the breach. As I said before, context is everything, as is accuracy and honesty, so let's provide the context for the cherrypicked quote you dishonestly quoted.
    Originally posted by Focus on the Family
    From the outset, let's be clear that this issue is not about objections to any specific cartoon characters. Instead, Dr. Dobson is concerned that these popular animated personalities are being exploited by an organization that's determined to promote the acceptance of homosexuality among our nation's youth.

    We applaud the ideal of championing to children the value and dignity of every human life as well as respect for our differences. What we vehemently object to is using these beloved characters to help advance an agenda that's beyond the comprehension of 6 and 7 year-old children, not to mention morally offensive to millions of moms and dads.
    emphasis added to highlight the elisions in eviljonhunt81's version


Hmmm, when it's honestly quoted and read in context, it looks like Dobson is pretty clearly saying that his objection is to Spongebob et al being used to promote an agenda rather than to the actual existence of the video. Again, I'll stand by my original criticism.

Tim



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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.36
How are they advancing an agenda they never mention? I guess that's what it comes down to.



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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
If I remember my biology, I thought sponges reproduced via asexual reproduction. I.e. no sexuality.



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Since: 28.1.02
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.37
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    If I remember my biology, I thought sponges reproduced via asexual reproduction. I.e. no sexuality.


Maybe that's why SpongeBob can wear Squarepants. If I wore square pants it would be .... uncomfortable..



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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by AWArulz
      Originally posted by DrDirt
      If I remember my biology, I thought sponges reproduced via asexual reproduction. I.e. no sexuality.


    Maybe that's why SpongeBob can wear Squarepants. If I wore square pants it would be .... uncomfortable..


Touche'. Well played.

Seriously, I think things like this are given too much credit for influencing kids. We need as a society to know the difference between tolerance and acceptance.



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Since: 28.1.02
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.37
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    Seriously, I think things like this are given too much credit for influencing kids. We need as a society to know the difference between tolerance and acceptance.


I tend to disagree, Doc. I think shows like this have a fantastic chance to influence and shape our children. I think that my 24 hour a day allegience to Clutch Cargo in my youth influenced my devotion today to close friends, my children, jeeps and mouths moving when bodies don't. Seriously, though. I remember as much about old episodes of Garfield Goose, Ray Rayner and Three Stooges (hey, Spread out, you!) than any episodes of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom that my Dad made me watch. (Plus I hated the part where Marlin Perkins was drinking a Boodles Martini in the Land Rover while Jim werstled a Crocodile downstream).

So, yeah, I think shows like Spongebob and the Rugrats and the rest CAN heavily influence the very young. Now, my kids are older, so I can't speak to the content of the aforementioned Spongebob except to say that many of the Teens I mentor love him to death. And they're good kids with a strong spiritual background, so I would suspect that all's right under the sea.




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Since: 17.11.02

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.34
Good grief! If I did everything I saw on cartoons, I'd be strapping dynamite to roller skates (Looney Toons!), running into heavily trafficed interstates chasing dropped change (Looney Toons as well...), grabbing my dad's gun and shooting everyone (Since according to G.I.Joe, you never get shot!), and jumping off tall buildings and cliffs (Sports Goofy!).

Just cause a sponge reproduces asexually doesn't mean a kid's gonna want to be gay. Only a complete nutcase can come to THAT conclusion...



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Since: 20.2.02
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.63
The argument is not that a show you watch as a kid will make you want to do everything in said show. Rather, shows you watch increase your tendencies towards certain actions.

For example, watching cool actors smoke makes you more likely to look at smoking as cool. Or watching a lot of violent movies makes you less likely to think of violence as wrong, or less likely to think of alternatives to violence in certain situations. Or watching lots of sitcoms in which women nag the men consistently and the men drink beer, are overweight and have to act "manly" makes you more likely to think this is the proper way for males and females to act.

I'd personally like there to be more shows where men hold hands and this isn't something to deride or laugh at, but simply happens. I'd like there to be more homosexual characters that aren't charicactures or stereotypes, but simply exist as normal. Because popular culture taking this on is the only way these views will become normalized, imo, as kids are influenced by what they watch.



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Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.76
Whatever happened to letting the weak and stupid get injured or killed? Any kid who tries to fly because he saw some stupid cartoon character do it deserves what he gets. When I was growing up, the dumb kid got bruises and was a little less dumb the next time. Kids arent going to profit from being shielded from everything in the real world. Check out this site, which shares with us brilliant revelations like evolutions bullshit, pray when you think about sex, and Jesus makes fags straight again.
Am I the only one who thinks being tolerant is a far cry from taking a shot in the mouth?

http://www.thetruthforyouth.com/standard/main.htm

What is the point of it all? I cant stand people who are too weak to tolerate something they disapprove of. Deal with it, you dont own the fucking planet. Christians like these are the main reason I havent been to church in three years.

Now I have no problem with people wanting to raise their kids to have certain values, but you can only shove it so far down their throats. Then, it will be up to them to decide. Government money should not go to forwarding absurdist agendas, and Bush has funded organizations that have blatantly lied to children, telling them cute facts like masturbation can cause pregnancy, AIDS can be transferred through tears and sweat, and, as if that werent enough, giving them false failure rates for condom use. His new budget has doubled the already hundred something million dollars being funnelled into pounding his increasingly uncommon values into anyone with the misfortune of being within the reach of his metaphorical urine-stream.

Now Canada will be wasting my time and money because people want to poo-poo over whether or not two dudes can get married, because thats the same thing as three people getting married apparently. The institution of marriage is already substantially compromised from what it was, and seeing as how murderers serving life sentences can get married, people who have never met can get married often when one party, usually the bride, is sold to the others family, and even the positively bovine Starr Jones can get married, I say two homos tying the knot is a step up. How valuable is an institution that can be ratified and/or annulled within the same day over the internet, anyway?

If you want to take money out of my pay to provide health care, sustain social programs, and run the country Ill be happy to let you have it. If you want to take it to bore me with a social debate that has little or no impact on my life, youre practically beggin me to move to Amsterdam. CLEAN HOOKERS = YUMYUM




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Since: 4.9.02
From: California

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.33
I noticed there wasn't anything in the articles about the gay character on SpongeBob, Squidward Tentacles. Also SpongeBob is straight, he has a squirrel girlfriend named Sandy.




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