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The W - Movies & TV - Game of Thrones 2x7 - "A Man Without Honor"
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
I'm going to make a controversial declaration but this episode has now thoroughly convinced me of it: Game of Thrones the show is better than the books. Now, I love those books (especially the first three), but the depth and complexity of the writing, acting, and directing in the show is incredible. The show takes what's on the page, circumvents your mind's eye, and fully realizes the potential on what was written.

Absent since episode one, Jaime Lannister is back in full force and he does not disappoint. Jaime is phenomenal, a rich and complex, utterly contemptible scoundrel. Han Solo fully pushed to the extreme, without the burden of having redeeming virtues. Yet, he's fascinating. Just his scene alone where Jaime shares memories of being a squire and tells his origin to his cousin, and then murders him on a dime to facilitate his prison break was already the standout moment of the episode. But then we get even more Jaime, letting loose with his forked tongue, shitting all over Ned Stark, whom he still hates to this day, and riding Catelyn for Ned fathering a bastard. Plus his breakdown of how contradictory all the vows are and what a pain in the ass it is to be a knight sworn to protect shitty kings. Plus Jaime's reaction to Brienne - "Is that a woman? Where did you find this beast?" - fucking perfect! I was already a fan of the Kingslayer from the books, but even moreso now from the show.

Cercei and Jaime both just outed their incest. Cercei pretty much confessed to Tyrion what he already knew (complete with Tyrion inching closer to his sister but neither could bear actually showing any affection towards the other.) Jaime just flat out told Catelyn he's only ever slept with his sister.

So many incredible character moments of raw honesty this week. Nearly all of the characters exposed some secret part of themselves.

Tyrion and Cercei commiserating on how Joffrey is a horrible, uncontrollable shit.

Cercei actually allowing Sansa to admit that she hates Joffrey and counseling her on putting all her devotion to her children instead.

Plus she told Sansa, who had her first period and can now be impregnated by Joffrey, about how King Robert used to abandon her during her childbirth to hunt while Jaime would be at her side.

Probably the most amazing scene yet between Tywin and Arya where he let her eat his mutton and revealed he knows she's highborn from the way she says "My Lord" instead of "Mi'lord". "You're too smart for your own good." This relationship is a complete invention of the show but it's just fantastic and a million times better than what George RR Martin had Arya do in the book. I fucking want Tywin to adopt Arya somehow.

That asshole turncloak Theon actually confessed to Maester Lewin that his own people will think him a laughing stock if he can't retrieve the runway Bran and Rickon, and to a lesser extent Osha and Hodor. Those charred corpses of two children he brought back and displayed in Winterfell, I dunno...

Over in Qarth, that freaky woman in the mask got Jorah Mormont to confess the bloody obvious, that he's in love with Daenerys.

Daenerys finally told Xaro Xhoan Daxos to shut up about that same boring story he always tells about being born poor and becoming the richest man in Qarth. Then she blunders into Xaro's coup d'etat where he crowned himself King of Qarth and admitted he and the magicians stole the dragons before executing the rest of the Thirteen. (So long, Spice King.) I have to admit, I had no memory of this from the book so the throat slitting of the Thirteen surprised me as much as it did Daenerys.

Beyond the Wall, Ygritte completely mind fucked Jon Snow when he completely refused her many, rather enticing invitations to groin fuck her. Ygritte even explained the election process that made Mance Rayder the King Beyond the Wall that sounds suspciously like democracy, a word that doesn't exist in Westeros. Of course, she brilliantly baited Jon into a Wilding trap. "You know nothing, Jon Snow."(!!)

Finally, my only grievance of the episode: Lady Talisa interrupting a royal meeting and coming to Robb Stark directly about a mere supply order. Seriously, lady? You need some medical supplies and you ask the King of the North for them? If some dumb woman bothered King Joffrey in the middle of him doing something important like cleaning his crossbow and asked him for some new parchment or some shit like that, that crossbow would be emptied right between her eyes. Coming to the King of the North with a supply order. Ridiculous. So of course he ran off with her to "get supplies". Horny Young Wolf asking for trouble.




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The King of Keith
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Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.47
Jaime Lannister is the man. Seriously. Also I got serious nerd chills in his dialogue with Brienne. Cannot wait for what lies ahead for them next season.

Tywin and Arya continue to steal the show in every scene they are in together. I could watch just them discussing stories for an hour every week and not grow tired of it.

I fist pumped when Ygritte finally said "You know nothing, Jon Snow".

Where's Reek? Shouldn't he have showed up by now??



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CxMorgado
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Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.69
    Originally posted by The King of Keith
    Where's Reek? Shouldn't he have showed up by now??


For tv show purposes, it seems that the role of Reek is being fulfilled by Dagmar Cleftjaw (Finchy from the UK Office). I stress REEK cuz anything more would be nonsensical.

The Qarth Coup was creepier than the Shadow Baby. And way cooler than anything that happened in or regarding Qarth in the books outside of the House of the Undying. Great move there if you ask me.

(edited by CxMorgado on 14.5.12 0248)


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Since: 31.1.12

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.14
what's with the army of creepy dean peltons?

Also, when Tywin tells her what a legacy is, should he say childrens's children or something? Usually it's not literally the children of your children. Is there a better way to express this situation that's more clarifying?
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
Good, they gave Ygritte, her catchphrase. The question becomes how much more they move away from the books. If it leads to more Tywin and Arya, I am ok with it. Yet, both have a separate destiny.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 119 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
    Originally posted by The King of Keith
    Jaime Lannister is the man. Seriously. Also I got serious nerd chills in his dialogue with Brienne. Cannot wait for what lies ahead for them next season.


Oh man, seriously. Most every dude has a man crush on Bronn, deservedly so, but if he keeps being awesome, and there's every indication he will, my man crush on the Kingslayer will get out of control.

This episode had the most shout outs to Ned Stark yet. Ned is kind of like Poochie. He's been gone a long time but everyone still talks about him. That man's ghost still hangs over this show, and probably always will. "Old Dead Ned," as Jaime would say. And he actually was a model prisoner up until he met the pointy end of Ice.



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Since: 2.6.03
From: Detroit area

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
    Originally posted by The King of Keith
    Jaime Lannister is the man. Seriously. Also I got serious nerd chills in his dialogue with Brienne. Cannot wait for what lies ahead for them next season.



Spoiler? That's assuming they make it to next season...


The teaser for next week indicates there's only two episodes left? But we're only on episode seven. Huh?





John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
    Originally posted by Dawg


    The teaser for next week indicates there's only two episodes left? But we're only on episode seven. Huh?


No, there are most definitely 3 episodes left. It's a ten episode season.

Apparently it's an HBO fuck up. Here's a tweet from one of the writers:

@BryanCogman
Hi all - once again... there are THREE #GoT episodes left. Not two.

(edited by John Orquiola on 14.5.12 0721)


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CruelAngel777
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Since: 7.4.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.73
This episode was really dedicated to the various knights of Westeros. The Hound and his duties to King Joffrey while trying to hide the soft spot he has for Sansa. Jon Snow getting seeds of doubt planted in him about being part of defending the wall. Jorah's unrequited love and protection of Daenyrs, Brienne and her shocking "bigness" for a woman, and most importantly silver tongue Jaime Lannister.

Goddamit Jamie, why oh why did you have to be so awesome this episode. I've hated you since the very first episode and saw no redeeming quality to your character. After all you fuck your sister, birthed a Hitler youth with her, helped capture Ned, and that "Kingslayer" nickname is all kinds of shady. In just this episode alone he was meek, vicious, cunning, condescending, loving, slanderous, and psychologically manipulative. I guess he really does love Cersei.

Arya was thinking about stabbing Twyin in the neck and I was all like "don't do it! You guys can be friends!". I love the moments with those two, they could have these tense little talks about the weather and I'd love it. It's especially great knowing that a great general like Tywin is essentially playing a mental chess game with a highly intelligent child. Arya is winning so far by keeping her true identity secret, but for how long? Tywin keeps discovering little things simply by her speech, and her stories not always connecting. Shits amazing.

WTF Shadow Clone Jutsu?! Run Daenyrs!

"Where did you find this beast?!" That's what she said.

(edited by CruelAngel777 on 14.5.12 0900)

(edited by CruelAngel777 on 14.5.12 0901)
Dawg
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Since: 2.6.03
From: Detroit area

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
I figured with Tywin having a bunch of people hung for a perceived assassination attempt makes it so the viewer is to fear for Arya's life if he, a) figures it out and b) Catelyn kills Jaime.

Oh, also, nice to see the return of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru after 35 years!
dMp
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Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
    Originally posted by theremin
    what's with the army of creepy dean peltons?



Rofl rofl rofl. I'd love Dean Pelton to walk into the study room from multiple directions at once. He'd wear a tiny little robe of course.

There's nothing I can say that hasn't been said yet (but I'll try)
Great dialogues all around. Every character had some shade of grey (well except Theon maybe) as what they said makes sense in their pov.

The Qarth thing was a nice twist of events. Given Daeny even more reason to totally go mental on them. Show her how a true Targaeyen queen acts.

And that might've been Rickon+Shaggydog's longest meaningful appearances yet.



(edited by dMp on 14.5.12 1925)


Avatar Mud
Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 464 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.43
-Not much discussion of the charred bodies. To me it looked like one really big one and one small one. So Hogarth and Bram? That would suck.

-Good call on Jon not banging that broad. He woulda just gotten jumped mid thrust. Not a good first time.

-Man, metal faced woman gives me the creeps.

-Jamie is gonna be like Shane on Walking Dead where everyone wants to like him cause he's the bad boy. Well FUCK JAMIE LANNISTER. I still hope he dies.

-Cersei has TWO sympathetic scenes. Robert sounds more like a D-bag the more I hear of him. No wonder she banged her brother. Of course, maybe Robert KNEW they were incest babies...I guess I'd go hunting too.



dMp
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Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.88
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    -Not much discussion of the charred bodies. To me it looked like one really big one and one small one. So Hogarth and Bram? That would suck.



You mean Hodor (the big guy) and Bran (the cripple son of Ned)??
No, those are Bran and Rickon. THe two little lords of Winterfell.
Theon needed to show he means business and you cannot escape him.

The problem with guys like Jamie and Tyrion is that they are indeed almost too cool and smart. How can you not feel some sort of respect for their characters. It's too easy to enjoy their antics. Compare that to Theon who is all sorts of pathetic, Robb who is...well, he's erhm..seriously, why am I supposed to care about him? Even Jon Snow isn't all that interesting, the way he bungles around.



Avatar Mud
CruelAngel777
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Since: 7.4.02

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.73
I'm slowly growing on Jon Snow, for the fact he is kinda like the simplistic male main character from Japanese anime and Japanese RPGs in that he's young, very naive, and foolishly brave. Oh and women swoon over him all the time but he's somehow insecure/indifferent to them because he's too busy trying to fight the good fight.

When re-watching the beginning of the Arya/Tywin scene I noticed that after Arya brought Tywin his mutton, Tywin refused it and gave Arya his food. It was a way to get her to test the food just in case it was poisoned, he must of suspected her trying to kill him. I love little things like that in the show that aren't made obvious until you watch again.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 119 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
    Originally posted by dMp
    The problem with guys like Jamie and Tyrion is that they are indeed almost too cool and smart. How can you not feel some sort of respect for their characters. It's too easy to enjoy their antics.


The Lannister brothers got the lion's share (pun intended) of smarts and cool, for sure. They are that lethal character combination of intelligent, witty, and ethically or morally challenged (Jaime somewhat more than Tyrion). Plus Jaime's got that tall, good looking, dangerous knight thing going for him. Con: He fucks his sister. Tyrion may be a dwarf, but pro: he loves women (i.e. whores) and still gets laid constantly. Plus they're both funny assholes you don't want to fuck with. They're head and shoulders (especially if Tyrion stood on Jaime's shoulders) two of the best characters in this show.

    Originally posted by CruelAngel77
    When re-watching the beginning of the Arya/Tywin scene I noticed that after Arya brought Tywin his mutton, Tywin refused it and gave Arya his food. It was a way to get her to test the food just in case it was poisoned, he must of suspected her trying to kill him. I love little things like that in the show that aren't made obvious until you watch again.


That's brilliant, that Tywin did that and you spotted it. Add Tywin to that best characters on the show list. His sons got their cleverness from him.



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Since: 24.2.03
From: Toronto, Canada

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.75
    Originally posted by John Orquiola

    That's brilliant, that Tywin did that and you spotted it. Add Tywin to that best characters on the show list. His sons got their cleverness from him.


Yeah, it's the little things. Like Arya saying her mother raised her to speak proper I mean properly to add on a layer of lowborn speech. And Tywin totally catching it.
theremin
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Since: 31.1.12

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.14
    Originally posted by dMp
      Originally posted by theremin
      what's with the army of creepy dean peltons?



    Rofl rofl rofl. I'd love Dean Pelton to walk into the study room from multiple directions at once. He'd wear a tiny little robe of course.



And that lipstick.

Thumbs up on the poochie reference.

I noticed the taste-testing thing right away. I think it's just because I love it that he has the audacity to think the assassination was supposed to be on him..


Is the story of the burned city more fleshed out in the book?
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
The thing with Jeremy and Tyrion is that are not that sympathetic in the books. Its a mark towards the actors for giving them depth as well as the writing. Jamie comes off as a giant A-Hole. Tyrion is stuck with the task of being the only sorta likable character, but you are not that sure if you like him because he is a good character or he is the least annoying person Lannister.

The person who seems to be getting it the worse is Cat. Even though she comes off as a bitch with John, you do feel for her. A lot of the books her from her POV and get inside her head. They seem to be taking that time to flesh out Robb. Robb just pops in and out with Cat that you never get a good idea what Robb is about other then bringing bloody vengeance for Poochie, I mean Ned. Still, I also think the actress is a bit too dower for the role. Cat is supposed to be a bit of a babe.

John would be a better character if they took one of the many sex scenes to establish him with the Wildings. You who read the books know what I mean. John is the A typical young knight on the hero's journey. He is a lot like Luke Skywalker. Granted, Luke was a bit Jonesing for Leia, yet what really motivated him was the death of his aunt and uncle. He like Robb is on a quest to right a wrong ie his Uncle's death. He is also a bit naive not as naive as Luke mainly for Tyrion opening his eyes a bit to Watch really was. He still stayed on and his doing the best he can. Yet, he needs that scene to help the viewers understand where he is coming from.

(edited by lotjx on 14.5.12 1727)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
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Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#19 Posted on
    Originally posted by CxMorgado
      Originally posted by The King of Keith
      Where's Reek? Shouldn't he have showed up by now??


    For tv show purposes, it seems that the role of Reek is being fulfilled by Dagmar Cleftjaw (Finchy from the UK Office). I stress REEK cuz anything more would be nonsensical.

    The Qarth Coup was creepier than the Shadow Baby. And way cooler than anything that happened in or regarding Qarth in the books outside of the House of the Undying. Great move there if you ask me.

    (edited by CxMorgado on 14.5.12 0248)



Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
There is no way the whole Reek/Ramsay/Theon Torture Porn storyline happens. It's weird, complicated, adds nothing to any main storyline or character, and they would have to write out Theon for three seasons anyway. Ramsay takes Winterfell in the last show of the season, Theon gets his (probably he gets flayed alive by Ramsay), that's a wrap.




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Since: 8.10.03
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo


    -Cersei has TWO sympathetic scenes. Robert sounds more like a D-bag the more I hear of him. No wonder she banged her brother. Of course, maybe Robert KNEW they were incest babies...I guess I'd go hunting too.




Cersei has things that happen to her to make a you feel sympathy(one of the main ones being that you find out more and more what a D-Bag Robert was), but not nearly enough to make up for the shit she does. She has been presented more sympathetically in the show than the books IMO.

No way Robert knew...for one, he didn't pay enough attention to notice anything going on with her, too much drinking and whoring to do. And two, if he had found her head would have been on a spike.
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