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18.12.14 1705
The W - Current Events & Politics - Former Klansman dead.
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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/2010/06/28/sen-robert-byrd-d-wv-dead-at-92/


Oh yeah, he was a Senator as well.
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CRZ
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.12
That really wasn't necessary.



Leroy
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Since: 7.2.02

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.09


You stay classy, StaggerLee.

From CNN's obituary -


    He opposed civil rights when he first ran for office, a stance he came to regret later in life. He blamed "that Southern atmosphere in which I grew up, with all of its prejudices and its feelings," for his opposition to equal rights, which included joining the Ku Klux Klan in the 1940s.

    He called the move "the greatest mistake of my life," an "albatross" that would always shadow his career.

    "It's a lesson to the young people of today, that once a major mistake has been made in one's life," he said, "it will always be there, and it will be in my obituary."





Who likes the little little duckies in the pond? I do, I do, I do, a chicka-quack quack.

That's Mr. WSLC to you.
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
I am sure plenty of people who do reprehensible things to or against other people later regret it.

TheBucsFan
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
So what, then, was the purpose behind your inflammatory thread title? Is it that we shouldn't forgive them? Is it that we shouldn't believe they actually regret it? Or were you trying to demonstrate that you're not above being so completely petty that you gloat over the death of a political opponent? We'll never know now, because you didn't actually say anything else about him.

I'm no big fan of most of Byrd's views, but he was one of the few in Congress who had the foresight and levelheadedness to oppose invading Iraq from the beginning. Here is the text of speeches given by Byrd and John McCain on the floor of the Senate as the invasion began.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 28.6.10 1344)


StaggerLee
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
If I mentioned Trent Lott, what would your first thought be? His years of public service to his state, or him being forced out of his Senate Majority spot because he said nice things about a man who, coincidentally, once opposed civil rights?

No matter how much "good" somebody does, when they spend the first half of their life being involved in a organization that terrorized minorities, THAT's your legacy.

And no, I don't feel obligated to forgive somebody just because they say they are sorry.

And if you want to talk about his actual politics, great. He was one of the biggest guilty parties of milking the pork spending and earmarks while in office. And, what good has that brought his state? They are still pretty much one of the poorest states in the Union, widely seen as inferior to other states.

TheBucsFan
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    If I mentioned Trent Lott, what would your first thought be?


My "first thought" isn't necessarily the headline I'd put on something to tell people of his death.


    No matter how much "good" somebody does, when they spend the first half of their life being involved in a organization that terrorized minorities, THAT's your legacy.

    And no, I don't feel obligated to forgive somebody just because they say they are sorry.

    And if you want to talk about his actual politics, great. He was one of the biggest guilty parties of milking the pork spending and earmarks while in office. And, what good has that brought his state? They are still pretty much one of the poorest states in the Union, widely seen as inferior to other states.




If you had stated *any* of this in the first post in the thread, perhaps your post wouldn't have been as pathetic. But it would be tough to overcome such a petty title.

I don't have a high enough opinion of Byrd to defend him. I mentioned Iraq as something where I thought he was in the right because the dude just DIED today.

If you see the man's death as nothing more than an opportunity to bash him, that's fine. But you should probably leave the initiating of any discussion to people who have things a little more thoughtful to say.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 28.6.10 1411)

CRZ
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.12
Now we're talking!







lotjx
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41
If I learned anything from those two speeches, is that Byrd knew exactly what was going to happen and McCain shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a poker table let alone the White House. While I didn't know Senator Byrd was a KKK member to begin with, I did know him as the eldest statesmen who was deeply respected by all. Hopefully, his sin will be a lesson and not something used to make Fox News or Rush or Beck as an attack point for the next 48 hours, but I doubt it.
Leroy
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.06
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    If I mentioned Trent Lott, what would your first thought be? His years of public service to his state, or him being forced out of his Senate Majority spot because he said nice things about a man who, coincidentally, once opposed civil rights?


You are very conveniently softening the nature of Trent Lott's comments and the severity to which Strom Thurmond's presidential run in 1948 was motivated by his opposition to not just civil rights, but to desegregation (views for which, unlike Byrd, Thurmond never publicly apologized).

Lott's comments, made in 2002, were as follows:

    Originally posted by Trent Lott
    When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years, either.


It's pretty debatable as to whether those comments were the reason for Lott's retirement, as there were plenty of other factors piling on was well - but, regardless, they are pretty indefensible.



Who likes the little little duckies in the pond? I do, I do, I do, a chicka-quack quack.

That's Mr. WSLC to you.
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.63
    Originally posted by Leroy

    It's pretty debatable as to whether those comments were the reason for Lott's retirement, as there were plenty of other factors piling on was well - but, regardless, they are pretty indefensible.


More indefensible than actually being in the KKK?

I am not saying Byrd wasn't sincere when he said he was sorry, but it can't undo 40 years of not only hateful speech, but also actively campaigning against a group of people.

    Originally posted by Byrd
    I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.

    “There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I'm going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much.”

    “The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia. It is necessary that the order be promoted immediately and in every state in the Union. Will you please inform me as to the possibilities of rebuilding the Klan realm of W. Va.”

    “They call me 'The Pork King,' they don't know how much I enjoy it.”



He led the filibuster trying to stop the vote for the Civil Rights vote, he voted against it. He voted against Thurgood Marshall. He took pride in fleecing the rest of the country's tax payers for his own state's benefit.

Do I feel for his family? Yes, it's sad when anybody dies. That doesn't negate his words and deeds when he was alive.
CajunMan
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.88
Rest in Peace.

I'll leave it at that.
Guru Zim
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.02
I personally don't know enough about Byrd to have an opinion either way about him, so I'll say instead - it's sad when someone who has spent 50+ years in service to his country passes, the first thing some people do is to speak ill of them. Whether or not you agree with him, he was trying to make America a better place. Our methods don't all have to be the same to understand and respect that we all should share that common goal.

//edit And from what I'm reading, I probably didn't agree with him often. It still doesn't mean that he wasn't doing what he thought he should do. I believe we can disagree with people and still be respectful.

(edited by Guru Zim on 28.6.10 1427)



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The Goon
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.02
If we were going with the controversial thread title, "See you in hell, Fuckface" is always a solid choice.
drjayphd
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.36
    Originally posted by The Goon
    If we were going with the controversial thread title, "See you in hell, Fuckface" is always a solid choice.


And let's not forget that chestnut, the immediately-closed "Tiller the Baby Killer Dead". (The one you mentioned was about Ted Kennedy, right? Gee, wonder if there's a trend...)





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KJames199
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Since: 10.12.01
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.10
    Originally posted by drjayphd
    The one you mentioned was about Ted Kennedy, right?
Juan Antonio Samaranch. And technically, it was "Have fun in Hell, Fuckface," which my girlfriend tells me I cannot have written on my tombstone, which makes me sad.
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