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The W - Random - Force Totem Pole
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timdrake
Polska kielbasa








Since: 17.3.02
From: Boston

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#1 Posted on
Rank how you feel these Jedi/Sith rank in power... each at his zenith: Yoda, Emperor, Obi Wan, Qui Gon, Maul, Vader, Luke, Dooku, Windu

My picks are as follows:

Yoda
The Emperor
Dooku
Vader
Windu
Obi-Wan
Qui-Gon
Maul
Luke

Yoda has to be on top b/c I don't think we'll ever see him as his peak, butwhat we see is just awesome. The emperor is next b/c he's the fucking emperor. Dooku was pretty badass and gave Yoda a run for his money. Vader is Vader, but I think the top three were too good for him (plus, Dooku kickedhis ass when he was Anakin w/o breaking a sweat, although I could be provenworng in Ep. III). Windu seems more badass than Obi Wan, though that could just be Sam L. Obi Wan lived much longer what Qui Gon and I think an older
Kenobi was much more powerful than Qui Gon was anyway. Maul was a big disappointment, but nothing compared to the absolute pussy Luke was as a Jedi.
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Since: 11.12.01
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21

This is a pretty random post, I guess.



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Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#3 Posted on
Yes, but Vader's going to kill Dooku to become Palpatine/Sidious's new apprentice in Episode III, so that's got to count for something. (not a spoiler - just obvious). And, under the same token, Maul killed Qui-Gon, right?

EDIT: Yeah, and plus he's Darth fucking Vader!

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 29.8.02 1551)



"The only difference between lilies and turds are those humankind have agreed upon, and I don't always agree."
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WyldeWolf1
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Since: 20.6.02
From: Florida

Since last post: 4367 days
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#4 Posted on
I can't believe I'm actually doing this, but I'll challenge your order, and even attempt to use logic (in a science fiction universe no less).

First, when you ask how they rank in power, I assume you're talking about combat, since that's the only clear measure the audience sees.

Second, I can only conjecture as to the abilities of a few characters at their "zenith". For example, we see little of Emperor Palpatine and Yoda in battle. Also, Luke has received little training compared to the others, so I'm assuming he has greater potential than we see in the original trilogy.

Third, I am disregarding all of the Star Wars universe except the movies, because (1) Most of the books read like fan fiction and (2) Lucas clearly disregards other writers' work as not binding, since he's already defied several of their premises in his last two movies.

Okay, let's categorize a few of the subjects.
Emperor Palpatine, Yoda, and Windu are clearly in the "Master" category. One can also make a case for Qui-Gon being there (Obi-Wan said he would be on the counsel if he would just go along with them), but going with assumption #1 above, he doesn't cut it since he was defeated by Maul. Dooku, however, seemed to be elevated above the rank-and-file Jedi Knight.

Maul and Obi-Wan are clearly below this tier. Neither had the abilities to do combat with a master.

The Skywalkers are a separate category to me. Clearly, Anakin is supposed to have the most potential of any being in the galaxy. The fact that he is manipulated by Palpatine in future years doesn't necessarily mean that he wasn't as powerful. He obviously thought that, along with Luke, he could overthrow the Emperor (see Empire Strikes Back. Also, we have yet to see him at his prime. He's still young in Episode II (though he held his own against Dooku for a while), and his body had been decimated by the time Episode IV takes place. Still, he is able to wipe out the Jedi Order. That's not exactly a small feat. I'm also guessing he takes Dooku's place in Episode III by destroying him.

Luke is also a special case. His training is abbreviated, but Obi-wan and Yoda still think he has the ability to overthrow Vader and Palpatine. In fact, Palpatine only got him after he overpowered his father and threw away his weapon.

Anakin/Vader
Luke
(This assumes his abilities are not yet peaked and largely based on Obi-Wan and Yoda's faith in him.)
Palpatine
Yoda
(below Luke & Palpatine b/c he never felt able to directly challenge the Emperor, but felt Luke could)
Dooku
Windu
Obi-Wan
Maul
Qui-Gon
(would be higher if this went beyond fighting ability)



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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
[SPOILER FOR ANYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN PHANTOM MENENCE]












luke kills his father...therefore he can not go at the bottom.


Maul does...after such hype for him, i was expecting more from him in the movie, and not being killed so quickly, or at all.



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Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

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#6 Posted on
shouldn't Obi-Wan be higher? I mean, he did kill Darth Maul and he held his own against Darth Vader.

I can't believe I've joined in this nerdery.



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Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

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#7 Posted on
I agree with WyldeWolf's assesment here except for two things. The first is Yoda. If we're talking about in his prime at the height of his power, Yoda should go above Palpatine. I believe the only reason Yoda never challenged the Emperor, was because he was too old to fight off both Anakin and Palpatine and his millions of stormtroopers. Remember, there was a bunch of Jedi dead from the fight with the battle droids, so the legions of stormtroopers do have an effect.

The next point is that Obi-Wan should probably be higher. While we haven't actually seen it yet, he does defeat Anakin and throw him in the lava pool (unless Lucas changes his mind) so that has to count for something. He killed Maul, beat Anakin, and then went toe-to-toe with Vader later before giving up. So Obi-Wan probably needs a higher seeding.

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ICEMAN
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Since: 23.5.02
From: Nashville,TN

Since last post: 1811 days
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#8 Posted on
I read somewhere that it goes like this:


Anakin
Yoda
Palpatine/Sidous
Luke
Vader(He lost some of his power when
he was turned to Vader)
Mace Windu
Dooku
Obi-Wan
Darth Maul
Qui-Gon

But there is really no actually way to measure them except for Midiclorians.

::::Star Wars geek mode off::::



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Since: 18.7.02

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#9 Posted on
I think Han and Chewy could take them all.
lmo911
Italian








Since: 2.1.02
From: A ways past Parts Unknown and to the left of Dudleyville

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.06
Han and Chewie!? Bah! Boba Fett is the man!

And now the nerd circle is complete...

(edited by lmo911 on 29.8.02 1930)
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by rikidozan
    luke kills his father...therefore he can not go at the bottom.


Luke didn't kill Vader - Vader killed himself by removing him helmet when Luke reawakened Anakin Skywalker inside him.



"The only difference between lilies and turds are those humankind have agreed upon, and I don't always agree."
---George Carlin

"Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music."
---Anon.
Lise
Mrs. Guru








Since: 11.12.01

Since last post: 355 days
Last activity: 22 days
#12 Posted on
*gets out the can of "Geek B Gone" and starts hosing down the thread*



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J. Kyle
Boudin blanc








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

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#13 Posted on
http://jkyle.com says:



Well if anyone remembers my postings on the billion page episode 2 thread I'm just gonna go off it...

Yoda belongs at the top and Obi Wan ranks above Anakin. Both Yoda and Obi could have beaten Vader and Yoda (but maybe not Obi) could have beaten the Emperor on raw power alone but that was not the role they were destined to play. They were destined to guide Luke to take his dad and the Emperor down.

And Maul managed to kill Qui Gon when he was also fighting Obi, so Darkman unquestionably bottoms out the list.

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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 16 hours
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard

      Originally posted by rikidozan
      luke kills his father...therefore he can not go at the bottom.


    Luke didn't kill Vader - Vader killed himself by removing him helmet when Luke reawakened Anakin Skywalker inside him.



that's still good enough for me.



"Smeg off, Rimmer." Dave Lister from Red Dwarf
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by P_Funk
    *gets out the can of "Geek B Gone" and starts hosing down the thread*
Why stop with just this thread?



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El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33
I guess I'm the ultrageek then because I actually read the Star Wars novels (Rogue Squadron, New Jedi order, etc).

Note to WyldeWolf; it's actually the opposite. The two prequals have conformed nicely with the "expanded universe". Rogue Planet, for example.



Yoda: At his peak, there is no other who can compare.
The Emperor: Obviously, he nearly single handedly brought back the Sith.
Darth Vader: You don't exteriminate most of the Jedi and not be powerful. Meanwhile....
Luke Skywalker: Heir to the Skywalker tradition, he's quite the accomplished warrior.
Obi-wan: Trained two of the above, definitly a powerful Jedi.
Dooku: Had the benifit of being taught by a jedi master and a Sith Lord. Nice combination.
Windu: Lower than the rest because his character has not been fleshed out yet.
Maul: Bad timing with his death, he could've been higher.
Qui-gon: Lower than the rest because well... he justy isn't as powerful


If you do factor in the expanded universe, then you need to consider Jacen Solo, Kyle Katern, and Ganner Rhysode (well, at least when he was dying).

(edited by El Nastio on 30.8.02 1743)


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Jubuki
Kolbasz








Since: 16.7.02

Since last post: 4328 days
Last activity: 4311 days
#17 Posted on
Actually, the Emperor's lightning had more to do with Vader's death than removing the mask. I forget the site I saw, but the premise was that there was so much electricity running through him (so much that his bones fluoresced) that he would have died soon anyway. Removing the mask simply sped up the process, as his suit and what was left of his mortal body were pretty much cheesed by the energy that went through him.



Chris
The AIR RAID CRASH
Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

Since last post: 457 days
Last activity: 10 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Luke didn't kill Vader - Vader killed himself by removing him helmet when Luke reawakened Anakin Skywalker inside him.


Not quite. From the "Jedi" script (emphasis added):

Darth Vader: Luke, help me take this mask off.
Luke: But you'll die.
Darth Vader: Nothing can stop that now. Just for once let me look on you with my own eyes.


    Originally posted by ICEMAN
    But there is really no actually way to measure them except for Midiclorians.


Personally, I'm half-expecting to find out that the Jedi were only partially correct - in full truth, the Midiclorians are actually the servants of the *Dark* Side of the Force. As a result, the Jedis' search for someone with a high level of Midiclorians actually assisted the Dark Side. (I'm not the only person pushing that theory, either.)

More importantly, there's one person you haven't ranked - who hasn't received formal training, but still has potential:

Leia, daughter of Anakin, brother of Luke.

Where does she rank?

Steph



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ICEMAN
Landjager








Since: 23.5.02
From: Nashville,TN

Since last post: 1811 days
Last activity: 1500 days
#19 Posted on

    Originally posted by Stephanie

      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Luke didn't kill Vader - Vader killed himself by removing him helmet when Luke reawakened Anakin Skywalker inside him.


    Not quite. From the "Jedi" script (emphasis added):

    Darth Vader: Luke, help me take this mask off.
    Luke: But you'll die.
    Darth Vader: Nothing can stop that now. Just for once let me look on you with my own eyes.


      Originally posted by ICEMAN
      But there is really no actually way to measure them except for Midiclorians.


    Personally, I'm half-expecting to find out that the Jedi were only partially correct - in full truth, the Midiclorians are actually the servants of the *Dark* Side of the Force. As a result, the Jedis' search for someone with a high level of Midiclorians actually assisted the Dark Side. (I'm not the only person pushing that theory, either.)

    More importantly, there's one person you haven't ranked - who hasn't received formal training, but still has potential:

    Leia, daughter of Anakin, brother of Luke.

    Where does she rank?

    Steph




The midiclorians could probably be used by the dark side.If you remember Anakin has a high count of them,almost enough for a lot of people to say that the midiclorians were what made him,he was a immaculate conception remember.

I also think that Darth Sidious/Palpatine created Anakin with the midiclorians and buried him on Tattoine to come back and train him as his apprenctice but the Jedi got to him first but Sidious knew Anakin would turn because it is his destiny.

As for the Leia thing, I think she would be ranked in the top if she actaully got trained by a Jedi but she's not so she's kinda in the middle.

And she's Luke's sister. :)



Rebecca: Oh,face it,you just hate everybody.

Enid: That's not true.I just hate all these
extroverted,obnoxious,pseudo-bohemian losers.




---Ghost World
Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

Since last post: 457 days
Last activity: 10 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22

    Originally posted by ICEMAN
    And she's Luke's sister.



Oof. So much for trying to post in a 3 A.M., post-party haze.

Steph



I'm going twenty-four hours a day...I can't seem to stop
- "Turn Up The Radio", Autograph
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