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22.8.14 2036
The W - Pro Wrestling - Foley/Helmsley or Foley/Orton?
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Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2613 days
Last activity: 2612 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
Well, I have to admit, that match with Randy Orton and Mick Foley was wild, no doubt. I know however that there's a big comparison to Foley's feud with Triple H. Just like HHH, Orton beat Foley in Foley's kind of match. However, As good as last night's match was, it lacked that something to me.

I guess it's the intangibles that separate this from the HHH feud. Four years ago, Foley was still a full-timer, considering retirement. Here, he's not full time at all. Also, the HHH feud involved other support players adding the fuel, like the Radicalz turning on Mick, and the Rock laying out HHH with a chair at the Rumble.

Well, that's just me, so I'll ask you, after last night's war, which Foley feud has more weight (not just in matches but buildup)? Helmsley or Orton?

(edited by Ringmistress on 19.4.04 0843)


After a quarter of a century on this planet, there's three things I know for sure...
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2)I'd make a fine Mrs. HHH II.
3) I'd make an acceptable Mrs. Orton.
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asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1368 days
Last activity: 276 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
The HHH feud, no question. Buildup was better and the matches were much higher quality. Plus, the whole transformation back into Cactus Jack was a great angle.

But I look at the two as apples and oranges. HHH was probably the legit best in the business at that point and Foley seemed like he trained like hell to try and match the pace. He wanted to end his career on a high note, and he accomplished that.

By comparison, Orton's still learning and Foley has obviously been years out of practice. But last night's match was still enjoyable. They had to rely more on toys and gimmicks to compensate for Foley probably not being able to run the ropes. And he's not as crisp as he used to be. But the Backlash definitely exceeded expectations. Foley's older, but he still knows how to tell a story in the ring. That's always been his biggest strength and he can still entertain a crowd. If you want to compare, compare this match to HHH/Nash Hell in the Cell, where they used a bunch of weapons, but with no real drama behind it. It was just a glorified backyard wrestling match.

Personally, I hope they keep Foley on as a sometime special attraction wrestler. They need the star power, and I think he can still sell pay-per-views. If not, they could definitely use him in creative.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"In addition, my tickets weren’t really what you’d expect from the webmaster of the internet’s largest independent pro-wrestling website." - Widro

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akatora
Weisswurst








Since: 12.4.04
From: Finland

Since last post: 3736 days
Last activity: 3735 days
#3 Posted on
The feud with HHH was a bit better I think. Those matches were better, Foley taking massive bumps, Triple H wrestling great matches and so on. And the build-up worked quite well. But I have to admit that this Orton-Foley-feud is also very entertaining, so it doesn't bother me that the match-qualities aren't as good as back then.



There are no polarbears in Finland. There aren't that much reindeers than you may think. The temperature isn't always 30 degrees below zero. But we have the Santa Claus, though.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3200 days
Last activity: 3200 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
The Foley/HHH feud was also over the WWF Title and a lot of people believed that Foley may get one last run with the belt.

I understand they were trying to bring attention to the Intercontinental Title but I think it would have added to the drama if the title WASN'T on the line. That pretty much sealed Foley wasn't going to pull out a win.

Still, I thoroughly enjoyed the Foley/Orton brawled and it's going to help Orton A LOT with casual fans. He'll have a lot more credibility now. Orton's still got a ways to go but his selling was spot on in that brawl. Plus he showed he's willing to do all sorts of crap for his craft.

Orton's true test will come with his next feud. Can he maintain his momenteum from Foley's feud? Or will he squander it? The team has gotten him into the red zone, put the ball under his arm and with his next feud, Orton's gotta score the touchdown.
too-old-now
Bockwurst








Since: 7.1.04

Since last post: 1237 days
Last activity: 162 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.42
I gotta agree that Foley/HHH was a better feud than Foley Orton, but both have been entertaining.

There were several Foley/HHH matches, including if I'm not mistaken several house show appearances.

In the HHH feud, Foley had been vocal about planning to retire after 'Mania, but the blow-off match was in Hartford in early February with Foley's retirement the stipulation. This led to more speculation that Foley would come out on top.

Then, Foley came back at Mania for the 4-way debacle, in what is regarded as one of the worst main events in Mania history (as it was one of the few times when the heel retained the title at Mania.)

With Orton, it was pretty much a given who was going to go over ultimately - personally I was expecting Batista interference. But I give props to Orton as he has taken the ball and is running with it. He may not have had to pay his dues as much as many others - but he is making the most of his shot.

What next for Orton? Does he eat Edge? I think a feud with Jericho might work, but since Sheldon is due to continue his feud with Evolution, maybe we go there.

Was there a rumor that Orton may try to lead Evolution while HHH is off making a movie? After the match he just had with Foley, a face turn might not be as hard - and he can continue his legend-killer gimick with trying to take out Flair, then maybe HHH?

Orton is tasty!
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 243 days
Last activity: 3 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.45
To me, Foley was much better ring-wise in 2000. Plus, the Foley/HHH feud not only established HHH as a big-name player, but also gave us tons of great matches, brought Benoit & the Radicalz to the WWF and established them as big-name players...AND led up to a damned good WrestleMania.



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Hoodle
Bauerwurst








Since: 19.12.03

Since last post: 3303 days
Last activity: 3298 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.32
Put me in the "way too early to tell" category.

Part of what makes the HHH/Foley fued so special is its historical significance. We have no idea what history will do to the Orton/Foley match. It could be the birth of a superstar, or it could also be completely undone by bad booking/wresting etc . . .(which would be a shame and a half)

And what's more - people have made this comparison so far based on the idea that Orton/Foley is over. It probably is - but you never know.


EDIT: Also, in HHH/Foley's defencee - they had a lot more buildup because HHH and Mankind had been in each other's faces since 1997, really, and having pretty fair to good matches most of the time.

(edited by Hoodle on 19.4.04 1514)
theUnseenPower
Linguica








Since: 21.10.02
From: London

Since last post: 3729 days
Last activity: 3725 days
#8 Posted on
The HHH/Foley feud was special for so many reasons, with great build up, with it being for the title and woth Foley's career on the line.

The Orton/Foley feud has been of a very high standard, but it just can't compare, especially with Foley only being a special attraction. It always had the feeling of a feud designed to 'make' Orton, rather than an even contest.

As for the match itself, whilst Orton took some bumps that some thought that he wouldn't, every time that Foley took one (especially with the bed of barbed wire) I couldn't help but think "Orton you bastard, you should be taking that".

As for historical significance, the way JR and Lawler were playing it after the match, I think this will be seen as the match that put Orton's career up another notch as long as that actually happens.



What is this place, a wrestling forum or Cynics Anonymous?
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1368 days
Last activity: 276 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Orton's true test will come with his next feud. Can he maintain his momenteum from Foley's feud? Or will he squander it? The team has gotten him into the red zone, put the ball under his arm and with his next feud, Orton's gotta score the touchdown.


His effort will definitely matter, but so will the booking. And without Foley writing the scripts, I'm a little fearful of what dead-end feud they'll put Orton in next.

(Of course, I say that and Orton will probably beat down HHH and throw him into a dumpster tonight)

(edited by asteroidboy on 19.4.04 1737)


-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"In addition, my tickets weren’t really what you’d expect from the webmaster of the internet’s largest independent pro-wrestling website." - Widro

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 65 days
Last activity: 10 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Actually, as I recall, WrestleMania 2000 was the only time a world title was on the line in the WrestleMania main event and the heel retained.

At WrestleMania X-7, Steve Austin won the WWF Title after turning heel, but both he and his opponent, The Rock, entered the match as faces.

At WrestleMania XIX, Triple H retained the World Title against Booker T, but that wasn't the main event-- the WWE Title match between Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar was. And Lesnar, the face, walked out as the new WWE Champion.

So Helmsley's win at WrestleMania 2000 was, technically, the only time the heel retained in the main event.

Anyhoo, regarding the Triple H/Foley feud. In that feud, there was at least the appearance of parity throughout. People could believe that in any of the matches (except maybe the WrestleMania fatal four-way) Foley could come out on top.

The Triple H/Mick Foley feud in 2000 did do great things for Triple H's career, but that wasn't the only reasoning for it-- it also helped Foley end his career in a positive way. (That is, if you choose to ignore the WrestleMania 2000 main event, which was basically an excuse to have a McMahon in each corner).

By contrast, Mick Foley has basically gotten his ass kicked every time he's confronted Orton. There have been three-on-one, three-on-two, and four-on-three assaults that Foley's gotten the fuzzy end of the stick on. Foley did manage to eliminate Orton at the Royal Rumble and then beat him up, but then Nunzio came out and Foley decided to put the Mandible Claw on him for no reason, allowing Orton to get a cheap shot and escape.

Foley's only technical victory in this feud was when the team of Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Shelton Benjamin and Mick Foley defeated Evolution. Only it was HBK, not Foley, who got the pin on Orton.

Basically, the Foley/Orton feud is WWE's attempt to get us to shut up about them pushing Orton, by making him pay his dues by getting thumbtacks shoved up his ass. Well, they can shove all the thumbtacks up his ass that they want... he's still got to prove that he can consistently put on good matches. And he also needs to improve on the mic, although he actually cut a very goood promo tonight on RAW.

A feud with Edge over the Intercontinental Title actually isn't a bad idea, especially if the actual match ends up taking place at Bad Blood. That'll give Edge time to regain his timing in the ring, and Orton time to improve his ring skills. I don't want you to think that I'm slamming the hell out of Orton, the guy's got potential... but he's still got to work on it a little bit. Let's see him prove that he can put on a good match without the shock value of death matches. I actually think he can do it, but I'm not convinced just yet.



“Chris Benoit, finally, is the Heavyweight Champion of this world!”
--Jim Ross, WrestleMania XX

Wiener of the Day Title History:

Won the title on 5/27/02 from Lunacy in a hardcore match; lost the belt the following day to wheresitat42 via offbeat shenanigans

Regained the title on 7/3/02 by pinning SKLOKAZOID in a triple-threat match; lost the belt the next day to NickBockwinkelFan via heel chicanery

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