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The W - Pro Wrestling - Flair vs. Brock
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cfgb
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87
Out of all the things I saw last night, this one is still bothering me as a Lost Opportunity.

They should have saved this match. BIG TIME. Until right before SummerSlam.

I think it's been well established by some net writers, and even a couple of wieners that Brock Lesnar is Ivan Drago. Ric Flair should have served to be his Apollo Creed.

They could have built this up HUGE. Flair talking about all the monsters he's destroyed in his career. The Nature Boy can be the Nature Boy through and through - cocky and cool as ever that he will be the one to take Brock Lesnar to school.

Flair starts off with his trademark stuff - but before 5:00 is up he's slowly coming to the conclusion that he's not in there with a regular dude. Watch his face turn from confident to....not so confident....to later on flat out fear for his life.

Flair throws everything he's got at Lesnar. All the old tactics that have served to defeat tons of opponents over the years. And no matter what he does, Lesnar keeps powering out.

At 20:00, Flair is exhausted and still trying everything. But it's not enough. Lesnar powerbombs him three times, F5, whatever - kills him dead. Flair is stretchered away - and whomever he's facing at SummerSlam can't be feeling so good about themselves right now.

I really thought last night I was on the verge of seeing something really special.

A real missed opportunity.




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Texas Kelly
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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

Since last post: 105 days
Last activity: 1 day
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#2 Posted on
This is why Austin left...



Being The Bookerman (No Way Out)
Grading The Bookerman (No Way Out)
Worship Your God And Mine

CRZ NOTABLE QUOTABLE OF THE MONTH:
KANE: Triple H...tonight, I will burn the flesh from your body!
MICHAEL COLE: OH MY GOD. KANE THREATENING TRIPLE H, SAYING HE'S GONNA BURN THE FLESH FROM HIS BODY!
CRZ: Umm, I heard it the FIRST time!
-- WWF Smackdown, 9/9/99

dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3256 days
Last activity: 2961 days
#3 Posted on
I have said it many times...there are atleast 20 people on this board that can book better than the WWE right now.



January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 128 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by dskillz
    I have said it many times...there are atleast 20 people on this board that can book better than the WWE right now.


Well it's a hell of a lot easier to "book" on a message board when you don't have to take into account some of the things WWE people do. To name two issues: employee moral (or "politics" as some may call it); answering to sponsers/stockholders/network executives who may demand some immediate reults. Plus, WWE workers don't necessarily have the time that some message board posters do. It may not seem like it takes long to come up with cfgb's theory above, but try doing it while juggling a million other problems or potential problems and you might find that original ideas don't come as quickly.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

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CEMfromMD
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Since: 29.3.02
From: Frederick, Maryland, USA

Since last post: 4363 days
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#5 Posted on
Have to agree with TheBucsFan on that one. Its is far easier for us to "book" the matches after the fact , and without the pressure that the writers/bookers for the WWE are under, where I can sit here after a match and say what went wrong and went right, but it still is only MY opinion, not the opinions of ALL the people watching the match.



CEMfromMD - Hogan Mark Extraordinare
dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3256 days
Last activity: 2961 days
#6 Posted on
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan

      Originally posted by dskillz
      I have said it many times...there are atleast 20 people on this board that can book better than the WWE right now.


    Well it's a hell of a lot easier to "book" on a message board when you don't have to take into account some of the things WWE people do. To name two issues: employee moral (or "politics" as some may call it); answering to sponsers/stockholders/network executives who may demand some immediate reults. Plus, WWE workers don't necessarily have the time that some message board posters do. It may not seem like it takes long to come up with cfgb's theory above, but try doing it while juggling a million other problems or potential problems and you might find that original ideas don't come as quickly.



So what? WWE always used to brag that the problem with WCW was that no one was in charge. WWE always said Vince was in charge and there was no "politics" in the locker room. Well, if that is the case then doing the types of things that are posted on a message board should be no problem. The rating is not going to go up dramatically for anything right now, so why not save matches and give a "slow burn" to matches. hotshotting crap isn't going to get you anywhere. Bookers and writers are there to create storylines, period. Management should handle all other problems. That is how it is supposed to work. If they don't have it working like that...it is a serious problem, but a reason why they aren't booking correctly.

(edited by dskillz on 2.7.02 1005)


January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
hayabusa
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Since: 22.6.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 3852 days
Last activity: 3661 days
#7 Posted on
How is Brock supposed to be seen as a machine that can't be stopped, when he can't win one match without Heyman's interfearence. He didn't even beat Test clean.



"Behind the bag, it gets through Buckner and the Mets win"
cfgb
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan

      Originally posted by dskillz
      I have said it many times...there are atleast 20 people on this board that can book better than the WWE right now.


    Well it's a hell of a lot easier to "book" on a message board when you don't have to take into account some of the things WWE people do. To name two issues: employee moral (or "politics" as some may call it); answering to sponsers/stockholders/network executives who may demand some immediate reults. Plus, WWE workers don't necessarily have the time that some message board posters do. It may not seem like it takes long to come up with cfgb's theory above, but try doing it while juggling a million other problems or potential problems and you might find that original ideas don't come as quickly.



Forget politics for a second. I'll bet money had they asked Ric Flair to come up with a match for him and Lesnar, if they're so busy, that he'd have come up with something more along the lines of what I posted above. Ric Flair wants to see good matches at the end of the day - and he knows Ric Flair the character is NOT stupid enough to fall for Heyman interference. So he'd come up with something far more creative - and chances are - clean.

Did you hear the fans? Flair had them. They all belonged to Slick Ric last night. I hope the WWE took a real long look at themselves when the night was finished and saw what a golden opportunity they squandered.

If they can get away with giving away Ric Flair jobbing on TV regularly, then they have far too much TV - and far too few jobbers.

This isn't Bob Holly that Brock Lesnar was facing. It was Ric fucking Flair!

With all the legends they have running around the fed, as usual, the one they're getting the least out of is the one that offers the most.




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Since: 22.3.02

Since last post: 4511 days
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#9 Posted on
Let's see:

We can build up huge to a match between Brock and Flair and hope Flair can go an intense 20 to get Brock over as a man who is capable of crippling 60 year old part time wrestlers. Sure it might make for a cool moment, but it's a lot of time spent on something that probably won't mean jack in the long term unless they spend HHH/Foley level time promoting it.

Or they can have a good Brock/Flair match to entertain the audience (odd concept, that) and then spend that time to build to a Brock/RVD match that might actually serve to get two people over and then build to a Brock/Rock match, so that Lesnar can get the rub (and possibly the win) from someone who still has real credibility left.

Every week people beg for more decent wrestling on RAW, and then, wow!, a good match. But it doesn't work with the fantasy booking we've been knocking about the past few weeks, so it must be an awful waste of everyone involved.

This is why Mideon left...

(edited by Debaser on 2.7.02 1151)


I don't really understand what Debaser said but I agree with him.

- Santa Sangre
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
    This is why Austin left...


Very true. Anyone else think that Austin was asked to put Brock over cleanly without any buildup whatsoever? It wouldn't have meant much there either. Flair's a good company man for complying and doing what he felt was best for business, but honestly, was this the best move to make? Brock beats Flair cleanly in a match with no buildup in front of what was likely a 3.0 rating? They really should have built this match up instead of hotshotting it. It could have sold some PPVs.
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 2082 days
Last activity: 1735 days
#11 Posted on
I don't think Brock can wrestle for 20 minutes. He ran out of wind last week against RVD. Before Brock becomes the champ he needs to be able to wrestle longer before he becomes champ.



I just have 13 words for you. How much wood would a woodchuch chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
Debaser
Mettwurst








Since: 22.3.02

Since last post: 4511 days
Last activity: 4476 days
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by It's False

      Originally posted by Texas Kelly
      This is why Austin left...


    Very true. Anyone else think that Austin was asked to put Brock over cleanly without any buildup whatsoever? It wouldn't have meant much there either. Flair's a good company man for complying and doing what he felt was best for business, but honestly, was this the best move to make? Brock beats Flair cleanly in a match with no buildup in front of what was likely a 3.0 rating? They really should have built this match up instead of hotshotting it. It could have sold some PPVs.



Great googly moogly. Since everyone else was ignoring the comment, I figured I'd let it go with an offhand incomprehensible comment. But now it's actually being supported.

Mindset:

We like Austin. Therefore everything Austin says or does must be in the best interest of the business, even though I have no evidence of this whatsoever. Nevermind that Austin jobbing to Brock with no buildup would have been better for business and for Brock than Austin not jobbing and disappearing from television entirely. Nevermind that Austin chose not to take a stand about bad booking until he was asked to job. Nevermind that what evidence we have of Austin's mindset after the fact is not particularly flattering. No, we like Austin, so he must be a mrter for the cause of good booking crucified by the devil McMahon and his unholy spawn Stephanie.

If the Undertaker had walked out under the exact same circumstances (or, Benoit forbid, HHH), would anybody be sitting here insisting it was an unselfish protest designed to help the business? Of course not. Just like Flair "knew better" than to put over Luger in the 80s, just like Austin (again) was right to refuse to work with Jarret, if we like someone it's utterly impossible they're ever in the wrong.

Please.



I don't really understand what Debaser said but I agree with him.

- Santa Sangre
Scorpio
Boudin rouge








Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 3921 days
Last activity: 3872 days
#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by Dahak
    I don't think Brock can wrestle for 20 minutes. He ran out of wind last week against RVD. Before Brock becomes the champ he needs to be able to wrestle longer before he becomes champ.


You're wrong on that one. Brock has the stamina.

Man, I feel like I am getting to be a Brock mark here, but trust me on this one.




PMMJ

"Nothing remains interesting where anything may happen." -H.G. Wells

ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 100 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#14 Posted on
I'm not as sure that Flair vs. Lesnar is as marketable as some of you guys seem to think.
The Amazing Salami
Sujuk








Since: 23.5.02
From: Oklahoma

Since last post: 3844 days
Last activity: 3843 days
#15 Posted on
I'm really not sure that FLAIR is really that marketable anymore, no matter who he's facing. (WHAT, NO, YOU CAN'T BE SAYING IT, YOU'RE NOT A TRUE FAN, BLASPHEMER, BLASPHEMER!!!!!)

It's kinda like when Joe Montana went to the Chiefs. It just wasn't the same.



The Amazing Salami Still Lives~!
Torach
Pinkelwurst








Since: 12.6.02
From: Dallas, TX

Since last post: 4539 days
Last activity: 4420 days
#16 Posted on
Well, this match served as a good warm up to the Raw that was after it. Ric and Brock put on a good show and the Nature Boy almost had me believing that he would win against the Next Big Thing.

The other thing that impressed me was the fact that Brock actually sold not only Flair's chops to the chest, but also his Figure Four Leg Lock. Brock could have easily no-sold those moves, but he didn't.

If Brock keeps working like this, he might have another fan.



Spanish Announce Table? I don't even speak Spanish.

Terri on my TV. Go away, Skeletor!
mskj
Summer sausage








Since: 10.1.02
From: Tennessee

Since last post: 1024 days
Last activity: 783 days
#17 Posted on
Come on. The booking was good here. Is it possible they are setting up an angle between Brock and Kurt? Isn't that why Brock issued the open challenge to a vet? To outdo Kurt? Building up towards Brock/Kurt sounds a whole lot better to me than spending two months building to Brock/Flair. A whole lot. It was a simple and effective story. Kurt can win an open challenge over a rookie. Brock is such a monster he can do it over a legend. Advantage-Brock.

Texas Kelly
Lap cheong








Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

Since last post: 105 days
Last activity: 1 day
ICQ:  
#18 Posted on
Debaser: I'm not saying that Austin was right in leaving. He wasn't. Yes, he was being selfish, but unlike Undertaker and Triple H, Austin was actually drawing, and getting worse treatment. Make your own calls. I'm not even saying that Austin putting Brock over in a five-minute KOTR special with no buildup would have been a bad thing for business. (IMHO, it would have been, but I'm not saying that.) All I'm saying is that it's because of situations like these why he left. There needs to be long-term planning and the new faces need to move up the card slowly. If Brock wins the title at Summerslam he's going to get overexposed as being very green and it's going to hurt his credibility, so I hope the Federation does the smart thing and put the Rock over (you know that's what coming) when the time comes.

Edit: Anti-Triple H rant deleted. Everyone knows my feelings on him already.

(edited by Texas Kelly on 2.7.02 1757)


Being The Bookerman (No Way Out)
Grading The Bookerman (No Way Out)
Worship Your God And Mine

CRZ NOTABLE QUOTABLE OF THE MONTH:
KANE: Triple H...tonight, I will burn the flesh from your body!
MICHAEL COLE: OH MY GOD. KANE THREATENING TRIPLE H, SAYING HE'S GONNA BURN THE FLESH FROM HIS BODY!
CRZ: Umm, I heard it the FIRST time!
-- WWF Smackdown, 9/9/99

Jackson
Sujuk








Since: 4.1.02

Since last post: 2046 days
Last activity: 1571 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
2 more months in the WWE and Flair's number of losses will be higher than his wins. Quit pissing on THE MAN! No one has tried more than Ric to put new guys over but it's getting to the point where it is hurting his legacy. I know there are fans that never saw him in WCW or his first WWF run and they think he is just that old fart that got his ass kicked by Vince and everyone else. Enough is enough (and it's time for a change).



Bubbles? Oh come on Sharon! Iím Ozzy Osbourne the Prince of Fucking Darkness. Evil, evil, more fucking evil not a boatload of fucking bubbles man.
Scorpio
Boudin rouge








Since: 18.2.02
From: Laurel, MD, USA

Since last post: 3921 days
Last activity: 3872 days
#20 Posted on

    Originally posted by mskj
    Is it possible they are setting up an angle between Brock and Kurt? Isn't that why Brock issued the open challenge to a vet? To outdo Kurt? Building up towards Brock/Kurt sounds a whole lot better to me than spending two months building to Brock/Flair. A whole lot. It was a simple and effective story. Kurt can win an open challenge over a rookie. Brock is such a monster he can do it over a legend. Advantage-Brock.




Agreed. But I really hope they don't rush Angle v. Lesnar. I want that one on the slooooow burn, so by the time it arrived, the fans are all crying on their internet boards saying 'why don't we ever get to see Brock vs. Angle?!'




PMMJ

"Nothing remains interesting where anything may happen." -H.G. Wells

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Plus, still time to get Deuce and Domino involved in the PPV, as well. It'd be a shame to keep them off the card. They've become my favorite part of the show over the past month.
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