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The W - Random - Fahrenheit 9/11 Reactions (Page 2)
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OlFuzzyBastard
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Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.98
    Originally posted by Quezzy
      Originally posted by Freeway420
      It angers up the blood, then allows laughter as an outlet for the anger. It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.


    It might be a great movie, and it might be factual or not, I don't know for sure. But I don't see what point it proves, if he just leaves it to the viewer. I mean what's the point of attacking someone with a hateful documentary unless you have some kind of solution from the problem. Did George W. do some things that weren't good? Sure, he's not perfect, but how do we fix that, give us a solution to this problem you've revealed. Instead of making a movie that is only going to bash George W. and get yourself praise, why don't you find a better candidate and use your money to support is campaign. It's not enough to just point a problem, think of a way to fix it then I'll listen.


Well, he did endorse Wesley Clark in the Democratic primaries. He hasn't officially endorsed anyone for the fall - he's old friends with (and a major 2000 supporter of) Ralph Nader, but the fact that he didn't endorse Kucinich this spring makes me think he'll probably wind up in the Kerry camp.



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Since: 4.9.02
From: California

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
    Originally posted by Quezzy
      Originally posted by Freeway420
      It angers up the blood, then allows laughter as an outlet for the anger. It shows the stark contrasts between the rich & the poor on this continent and then says "Let's do something about it." Do what? Moore leaves that to the viewer.


    It might be a great movie, and it might be factual or not, I don't know for sure. But I don't see what point it proves, if he just leaves it to the viewer. I mean what's the point of attacking someone with a hateful documentary unless you have some kind of solution from the problem. Did George W. do some things that weren't good? Sure, he's not perfect, but how do we fix that, give us a solution to this problem you've revealed. Instead of making a movie that is only going to bash George W. and get yourself praise, why don't you find a better candidate and use your money to support is campaign. It's not enough to just point a problem, think of a way to fix it then I'll listen.


I think the point Moore is trying to make is that you need to vote for John Kerry this November to get Bush out of the White House . I mean that's what it is when you boil it down, Moore has admitted that this is an attack on the Bush family and he's doing everything in his power to get him out of office pronto. That's the point.

I hear Michael Moore's next movie will be about HMO and healthcare issues. Personally, I liked Jeff Dowder's idea which he discussed on the Phil Hendrie Show. Dowder thinks Michael Moore should make a documentary about how American CIA agents murdered Princess Diana and late President, JFK.

(edited by The Vile1 on 25.6.04 2113)



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Since: 7.1.02
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.04
    Originally posted by ges7184
    Regardless, nothing that Bush done in those seven minutes would have changed a damn thing. It's not significant (his explanation was that he was waiting for more information, which isn't that unreasonable. As far as looking dumbfounded, he ALWAYS looks dumbfounded.).

    I fear that there will be more emphasis and debate placed on this meaningless seven minutes than the hours, days, months, and now years of Bush actions since then that deserve more scrutiny than what happened in that school.



Those seven minutes may not be as significant as the laundry list of horrible shit that's happened under the administration, but I'll be damned if it isn't a real peek into the man's character. And he didn't look dumbfounded, that would be par the course for him. He looked fucking terrified and confused and in need of a helping hand. Having something whispered in your ear and sitting there isn't delegation of authority last I checked. But I agree that it isn't worth the scrutiny it will probably undergo.



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Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.74
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Re: The Seven Minutes

    Wouldn't you want your President to be Type A? Regardless of his politics, a Type A person would not have just sat there.



Hell no I don't want a type A President who would? Should he have attacked China? Invaded Canada? Nuked Seattle? In 7 minutes all he knew is that an airliner hit the WTC. He had no way of knowing that two more planes were going to hit targets. He had no way of knowing who did it.
As a father he probably should have left the room not to worry the kids but that is the only problem I see with his taking time to think things through.
ALso who cares if he was scared. I was scared. I also seem to remember almost everything closing that day. And all the airliners being shut down. But I guess since Bush is POTUS he is no longer human huh?




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fuelinjected
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Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
No, the correct response would be "What the fuck? I need to do something! I need to get on the phone with people, I need to find out what the fuck is going on in my country and what I'm going to do" instead of being a puppethead of a President.

Strip away the family name, and somehow I doubt that man would be where he is today.



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Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    No, the correct response would be "What the fuck? I need to do something! I need to get on the phone with people, I need to find out what the fuck is going on in my country and what I'm going to do" instead of being a puppethead of a President.

    Strip away the family name, and somehow I doubt that man would be where he is today.


I sincerely doubt that the POTUS's job is to make a bunch of phone calls and determine what is going on. But, I don't know that for certain.

What I do know is that where I work, when there is some type of crisis (in our case an economic or financial one) then the president's (whatever the top guy's title) job is initially to wait until information is available. Then, everyone with any experience in that particular area then gets pulled together to gather, analyze, etc. all relevant data available. Finally, a team of a couple of people with the most knowledge or experience in that area then take that information and summarize it for the president who then begins to set the course and plot a response. Continue as necessary.

In Bush's case, he was outside of the White House during a national security crisis when no one knew exactly what was going on. He is not the one responsible for getting in touch with his relevant contacts or gathering data. That is what the staff do. He is responsible for being available to receive information and take action when a response becomes evident. I think he was still in position to do that.
avonhun
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Since: 21.4.04

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.37
uh, type A does not mean violent. there are plenty of type A people who are for world peace. the two things have nothing to do with each other. and actually it was the second plane that hit while he was in the classroom. IMHO he should have gone somewhere safe where he could be briefed by his advisors about possible courses of action.

as for the 2000 election, there should have been a recount as opposed to supreme court ruling.
Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.24
Not to turn this into a Poltics discussion outside of Politics, but Bush SHOULD'VE known what was going on. They had a whole shitload of intel that said "Bin Laden's gonna crash planes in the US" and they ignored 'em. So when his aid said "Someone crashed a plane into the World Trade Center", but should've known (and probably DID) know what was going on.



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Since: 20.6.02
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
Steering the thread back to its topic somewhat, I was hoping to come onto this thread with my own thoughts of the movie.

The problem was, it was literally SOLD OUT everywhere in the Santa Monica area. In fact, the nearest place to get tickets was past Hollywood for a midnight screening. Say what you will about Michael Moore, but this movie's making MONEY!

And in the end, isn't that what it's REALLY all about?




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Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by dwaters
      Sure they've got room for "Garfield" on five screens, but do you think they could squeeze in a movie that might actually make you think???
    Garfield is probably more factual....


Grimis, I'd be interested in hearing exactly what isn't factual about Moore's new documentary. What? Do you think he made it all up? Proof please.



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Doc_whiskey
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Since: 6.8.02
From: St. Louis

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.18
    Originally posted by Stilton
      Originally posted by Grimis
        Originally posted by dwaters
        Sure they've got room for "Garfield" on five screens, but do you think they could squeeze in a movie that might actually make you think???
      Garfield is probably more factual....


    Grimis, I'd be interested in hearing exactly what isn't factual about Moore's new documentary. What? Do you think he made it all up? Proof please.


Yeah Michael Moore making stuff up and creatively editing things never happens [/sarcasm]



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CxMorgado
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Since: 21.1.02
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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.63
    Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
      Originally posted by Stilton
        Originally posted by Grimis
          Originally posted by dwaters
          Sure they've got room for "Garfield" on five screens, but do you think they could squeeze in a movie that might actually make you think???
        Garfield is probably more factual....


      Grimis, I'd be interested in hearing exactly what isn't factual about Moore's new documentary. What? Do you think he made it all up? Proof please.


    Yeah Michael Moore making stuff up and creatively editing things never happens [/sarcasm]


Creative editing I'll give you, but I would love for someone to just once show me something he genuinely made up, cuz so far no one I've ever asked has done that, or at least provided me with an answer that I haven't found out to be wrong.



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Since: 6.8.02
From: St. Louis

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.18
    Originally posted by CxMorgado>

    Creative editing I'll give you, but I would love for someone to just once show me something he genuinely made up, cuz so far no one I've ever asked has done that, or at least provided me with an answer that I haven't found out to be wrong.



In Bowling for Columbine he had a scene talking about students seeing their dads go off to a missile plant in Littleton to build weapons of mass destruction and basically saying that may have caused the teenager to think violence is OK (can't remember whole thing, but that is the long and short of it). Fact is the plant in Littleton did not make military or weapon missiles, it made rockets used to launch satellites into space. He basically made up the fact this plant makes weapons.

Also one could argue that creative editing itself is lying (you arent giving them the whole truth instead you are presenting something as if that is the way it happened when it fact it did not occur in that manner)
(edited by Doc_whiskey on 26.6.04 1427)

(edited by Doc_whiskey on 26.6.04 1433)

Lisa: They used it to settle fights at taverns
Homer: She said tavern! I'm going to Moe's
Marge: I never agreed to that rule
asteroidboy
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Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

Just got back from watching it in Dallas.

The night show was sold out. There may have been a few empty seats in the front row, but that was it. Atmosphere was electric, with the vague excitement that you get from doing something a little subversive. I kept wondering when the Young Republicans would show up and take a knife to the movie screen.

It was a stunning movie. Really, there's nothing in there that you haven't already heard, but man, does Moore tie it all together effectively. He saves the big bullets for the end, interviewing the Flint woman whose son died in Iraq. And snippets from disillusioned soldiers who realize they've been conned.

Intersperse that with footage of Marine recruiters, trolling for fresh meat at the ghetto mall in Flint. Kids are enticed to sign up with stories about how David Robinson and Shaggy were both in the military.

Moore has a few stunts, but basically he puts a lot of information out there. Most unsettling might be the admission from one Congressman that no one really READS all the legislation that's passed, when Moore asks him about the Patriot Act. ("That would severely slow the legislative process!" he tells us.)

I know the White House has called Moore on the "fringe," but if the movie turnout was any indication, they might want to rethink that.

At the end, everyone cheered. Very interesting, especially watching it in the middle of Texas.


Biggest pops:

- The Marine at the Capitol who said he wouldn't go back to Iraq because he "wasn't going to kill other poor people."

- When the Secret Service guys show up as Moore is filming a shot outside the Saudi Arabian embassy.

- John Ashcroft's acapella greatness. MUST be heard.


You should watch this movie. Even if you don't like Moore. If nothing else, because there are significant forces out there that are trying to keep you from watching this movie.


Edit - As for the assertions that Moore is a wealthy man... I don't know what his situation is now, but when he made Bowling for Columbine, he was broke.

(edited by asteroidboy on 26.6.04 1800)

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Since: 6.8.02
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.18
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    >because there are significant forces out there that are trying to keep you from watching this movie.




    (edited by asteroidboy on 26.6.04 1756)

    (edited by asteroidboy on 26.6.04 1757)


Yeah just yesterday some guys stopped by my house. They said don't see Fahrenheit 911. I was going to tell them I was going to see it anyways, but they were pretty big so I decided not to go.



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Since: 7.2.04
From: Canada

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.26
    Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
      Originally posted by asteroidboy
      >because there are significant forces out there that are trying to keep you from watching this movie.




      (edited by asteroidboy on 26.6.04 1756)

      (edited by asteroidboy on 26.6.04 1757)


    Yeah just yesterday some guys stopped by my house. They said don't see Fahrenheit 911. I was going to tell them I was going to see it anyways, but they were pretty big so I decided not to go.


Doc Whiskey, perhaps you hadn't heard, but The Cult of The Six-Foot Rat, Mickey Monster (also known as Disney) tried to prevent the film from being distributed at all. Why? To kiss the Bush family's asses and maybe keep their fat tax breaks in Florida.

I saw the movie today, and I have to say it's one of the best documentaries I've ever seen, and maybe one of the most important. A must see, literally.



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Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.10
"Intersperse that with footage of Marine recruiters, trolling for fresh meat at the ghetto mall in Flint. Kids are enticed to sign up with stories about how David Robinson and Shaggy were both in the military."

Did Moore document how many people have now been taken off the streets in those ghettos, got degrees, now how steady jobs, and living productive lives thanks to the military? Oh, why do I ask? The 60's must have been a glorious era, but I only wish the bleeding heart paper hangers of today could distinguish the many differances between Vietnam and Persian Gulf II.

"You should watch this movie. Even if you don't like Moore. If nothing else, because there are significant forces out there that are trying to keep you from watching this movie."

Yeah, the ghost of Marx! I try to keep an open mind, but you got to draw the line. I won't watch this for the same reason I won't watch the 700 Club or listen to the Mike Gallagher show. But then again if objectivity was in vouge C-Span would be the highest rated news network, no?





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Since: 17.2.04
From: Eugene, Oregon

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.28
This isn't a documentary.

That's what I said, and let me repeat: this isn't a documentary. What is it? Well it's more a cinematic editorial. As such it isn't going to be for everyone.

The plus side is that the tone comes more on a level on comraderie with the view than from a pulpit. It's like Moore's got his arm around your shoulders talking with you in half-conspiratorial whispers, half bantering like a buddy. It didn't seem overly preachy, and far more cautious than Bowling was. Michael Moore isn't on screen as much, and doesn't approach this so much in the guerilla style that he is known for. There are two exceptions to that, but they are short, and are used for a bit or sarcasm.

On a purely technical level I felt it was put together well with a bit more flow than Bowling for Columbine had. The choice to show members of the administration as they are before an interview commences was an effective way to bring them out of the political realm and back down to being humans. And like Bowling there was great editing involving music. The songs are used to underscore points well, and shows a level of professionalism to the film.

There is an effort to inject a pop culture feel (Dragnet and Bonanza anyone?) into a topic that really isn't in that realm. It's a film maker making a topic more accessible than it seems.

Is it earth shattering? No, not really. The information is available in numerous books, but the presentation of it is top notch. In fact I'll say that this sort of film should be made more often, by either side of the political fence.

Now this all being said. I saw the movie with the folks and we loved it. And we are all liberals, in several senses of the word, so this is to be expected I guess. But I am a realist, it wont change the world, though it might whip up some fervor under those sympathetic to it's information.

Last point, responding to a question of Nag as best I can. Moore points out that it is largely the lower classes that join the military, and protect us. And he literally asks that after this newest war, "Can they trust us again?" One of the final notes is a quote from George Orwell, saying how this is all just symptoms of a class war. And oddly he does build evidence towards this ending statement subtlely in the movie.

But this is largely my opinion, take it or leave it.




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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43

    Originally posted by avonhun
    as for the 2000 election, there should have been a recount as opposed to supreme court ruling.


How many moore(sic) recounts do you want? Still waiting for the "unconstitutional" explanation...



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Llakor
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec, CANADA

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.90
    Originally posted by Iago
    This isn't a documentary.

    That's what I said, and let me repeat: this isn't a documentary. What is it? Well it's more a cinematic editorial.


No, offense but you don't what a documentary is. In fact calling a documentary "a cinematic editorial" is about as good a definition as any. All documentaries have opinions. All documentaries use some form of editing to tell their story better. Some are just more circumspect about their opinions than others. And in some cases, the opinions are non-political when the documentary films subject is non-political.

And BTW, while I am by no means a fan of Disney censoring itself and chickening out on releasing this film and if I was a Disney share holder I would want Michael Eisner's head on a platter, but the censorship applied to this film is by no means as extreme as say that applied during the Reagan administration against "If You Love This Planet" and two films about acid rain which Edwin Meese had declared as "political propaganda" to try and reduce their distribution in the United States.

(Cause Acid Rain is caused by TREES yo and anyone who says differently must be some kind of communist.)

(edited by Llakor on 27.6.04 0851)

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That would be Andy Samberg. Can't remember if he's part of the regular cast now, or one of the feature players. Great video - had me laughing!
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