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The W - Pro Wrestling - Fact or Fiction #1: Can TNA eventually serve as WWE's main competition?
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It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#1 Posted on
This is a little concept that I'm lifting from Lordsofpain.net, who in turn lifted it from the crew at ESPN's Sportscenter. "Fact or Fiction" is a popular part of the show that examines a question and determines whether it is fact or fiction. And it's something I think would be good to toss around here at the Wonderful World of Wieners. So for the first question, I ask...

Can NWA: TNA eventually serve as WWE's main competition?

I'll get the ball rolling by saying FACT. While the weekly PPV idea is still a major risk, there is no denying that WWE is on a major slide and TNA is proving itself to be a great alternative, something wrestling fans have craved for a while.

Furthermore, the main event scene is a breath of fresh air. It's been shown that the only ones who can rise to the main event at WWE are ONLY those who wrestle the neutered "WWE style". Look at what's happened to Sean O'Haire. Look at the way Brock has turned from a WRESTLER into a kicky-punchy generic power guy. Look at how Goldberg is forced to wrestle "WWE style", clearly not his forte, and thus look like a total incompetent. You can likely interchange guys like Triple H, Undertaker, Brock, Rocky, and others and likely get the exact same kind of main event. WWE fears what's different, which is why a match like Angle/Benoit from Royal Rumble may never be seen again.

Compare that to some of TNA's main eventers like Jeff Jarrett, AJ Styles, and Raven. These are three guys with DIFFERENT styles (no pun intended) and thus a different kind of main event is almost guaranteed. Once fans catch on to that, they'll start tuning in.

It's all a matter of TNA getting over its initial fear of a national cable deal. Borash makes a good point about a national cable deal leading to the fall of ECW, but you also have to consider that ECW got next to NOTHING in terms of promotion from TNN. They didn't even get a fraction of anything from TNN compared to what the WWF and WCW was getting at the time. If TNA can find a cable network that's actually WILLING to hype them and work with them to become a success, then their dreams of one day competing with Raw can come true.

Full credit goes to Lordsofpain.net and Sportscenter for the "Fact or Fiction" idea




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Since: 4.10.02

Since last post: 654 days
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#2 Posted on
How can I say this without hurting your feelings....

No!
Evil Antler God
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Since: 10.1.02

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#3 Posted on
.....such a stirring rebuttal, so well thought out and planned.....



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Since: 27.4.03
From: Nova Scotia Canada

Since last post: 112 days
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#4 Posted on
I think NWA-TNA could compete with WWE especially at this moment. Mind you I ahve not seen TNA yet, but it sounds interesting and I really enjoy Raven, Jeff Jarrett, Mike Sanders, Disco Inferno, and the few matches I've seen featurings the wrestlers in the X-Division were entertaining. With the cable deal and proper promotion this could work. Think I might get my friend to order it for me this week though I want to see Jarrett vs Raven.
darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 3610 days
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#5 Posted on
Fiction.

#1. It relies heavily on castoffs from other federations which is a large part of what is not working in WWE.

#2. It relies heavily on people with reps from the indies, which are questionable at best.
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 86 days
Last activity: 8 days
#6 Posted on
Fiction.

TNA simply cannot gain enough exposure under its current PPV model. And apparently the PPV model is the only way they can do a weekly show. They need to have some kind of stream of revenue to live week to week. The way they conduct business is very much like a poor Joe who is living paycheck to paycheck. And as the old saying goes, you are only paycheck away from being homeless.

I'm not convinced they could even get a national TV contract with wrestling in a down cycle. And I'm less convinced they could get a national TV contract that would meet their revenue needs. And it just doesn't seem they have the financial resources to lose a lot of money. Now if they pick up a big time investor or something, maybe they could do that, ie lose money now to make money later. But right now I don't think they can afford to do that.

That's not even touching on the fact that if TNA did start to get on some kind of roll, there is the great possibility, at least I believe, that a good bit of TNA's talent would jump at a WWE contract at a second if the price was right.

If I were a betting man, and I'm not (meaning I'm wrong a lot!), but if I were, I still would put better odds on TNA not existing in two years than TNA ever being a serious competitor to WWE.
Heck, I would even put better odds (but not good odds) that WWE actually falls to TNA's level than TNA rising to WWE's level.

As you see, no mention of actual wrestling. I really think this is more of an 'economics and logistics' question than a 'match and product quality' question, at least as I see it. And I just don't see the economics working out for TNA.

(edited by ges7184 on 29.4.03 1734)
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.59
Fiction as of now. I am going to really hedge my bets on this. I think there needs to be an alternative to the WWE, but I don't see it being these guys. I love Raven, D-Low and the ECW castoffs, but there is a few problmes.

1. There is no Rock or Austin there. There is no one on that line-up that I would spend $10 a week to see. The matches maybe off the hook, but they need to build a guy who has never be in the WWE and promote them as their guy. There is too many guys with the stigmata of loser around them in this federation. They need to build some more younger talent, so they don't have the taint of WWE around. Second option, wait till Benoit or Jericho or someone like them just says the hell with it. WCW died the night the Radicals appeared on Raw, I was there live biased showing. Their future talent was dead and go on. If something like this happened in TNA's favor then they could at least compete.

2. The booking. I have been reading the reports just to see how the shows are going. For the most part, they are a mixed bag of good stuff while having some pretty crappy stuff. I am an ECW mark, so I am enjoying their version of Invasion which looks much better than Vince's idea. The Trinity angle could work, but I doubt it. The X-Division is a great concept and those guys are making we want to buy it. Yet, there is Jeff Jarrett or as I like to call him HHH dark. Jeff is getting a push, because of his dad. If Jeff drops the title and goes back to the mid-card fueding with Kid Kash, the Truth and other young talnet it could work. Yet, I get this feeling that it will take a minor miracle for Jeff to leave that spot when they are spending some money getting Raven, D-Low, Justin and the other WWE firies coughJeffHardycough. He needs to take a bow this week and give it to Raven. Raven with the belt would be awesome why, because Raven can still go and with an ECW setting will put asses in the seats.

3. The PPV thing. The wrestling maybe great, but I don't see spending this much money on a show that is like Raw or Smackdown. I know they need the money fast, but I don't know if this is the way to do it. The idea that they will show up on cable is laughable. Raw maybe the highest rated show on cable, yet research will show the boom is over. It would be a shock to see them land any cable deal. However, they need mainstream exposure and quick. If some cable company like FX or USA would take a chance with them then perhaps we would see them as a major competier. As of now, they are a large indy.

A Fan- Change is not always good, actually it sucks.
y4j1981
Kolbasz








Since: 1.4.03
From: Dale City, Virginia

Since last post: 1900 days
Last activity: 1840 days
#8 Posted on
Your Official Sunday, April 13, 2003 Randomly Selected Wiener Of The Day Champion says....

Well you say "eventually" I say yes. Right now no TNA cannot compete on WWE's level. TNA needs to start getting never-seen-before talent instead of guys from other promtions. Now, seeing the guys from other promtions is still great but you can't just build your company around that. And the talent needs to be able to say "no" to WWE when they come calling. But if they build over time I say yes.



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fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3176 days
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#9 Posted on
Fiction.

Under the current PPV system, it's impossible to encourage trial and make a dent with the wrestling fanbase. They need a good national TV spot to have any chance of competing.

Even if they got a TV deal, Vince Russo's creative style doesn't lend itself to drawing money without a Rock or Austin. There's no clear faces or heels in NWATNA, everything is too wishy washy and SWERVETASTIC. That booking drew atrocious PPV's in WCW and it would for NWATNA.

Besides, they'd need some a MAJOR financial backer to avoid Vince just raiding their talent.
waffleking
Pickled pork








Since: 2.10.02
From: Missouri

Since last post: 2742 days
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#10 Posted on
My answer... not anytime soon.

If they can get on a cable channel and provide decent writing, I'll be all over it. I think there is a lot of people ready for a wrestling alternative so if they can accomplish those two things they will definately be a competition.





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Swordsman Yen
Frankfurter








Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

Since last post: 3851 days
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Well you know something, Mean Gene...

It's fiction. Much like the Lakers getting eliminated by the T-Wolves, it's a nice dream that's likely not going to come true.

A cable deal and great storylines aren't a guarantee to success. Just ask Paul Heyman about that. You need the financial banking and good business sense to be able to compete. The WWE, while having lost money over the past few years, is a financial juggernaut in comparison to TNA. TNA has barely enough cash and resources to retain their own talent, much less compete in a free-agent bidding war with the WWE. As much as wrestlers like their work, they like money even more. To think there would be a significant number of talented TNA workers willing to take a lower paycheck and heavier schedule with the WWE dangling a tempting carrot in front of them borders on naive.

While we would all like to believe that thought-provoking storylines and 20 minute wrestling clinics are the surefire way to success, let's face it: the average wrestling fan doesn't give a shit about that, and there's more of them than the alleged smarks out there. They recognize the names Rock, Hogan, and Goldberg, and will shell out the cash for those names. How exactly can you convince the average wrestling fan who doesn't have an internet connection or insider news to shell out $10 a week for a two-hour wrestling show when they can see the same type of show put on by a national promotion for free and with the names they've been so accustomed to seeing?

WCW competed with and nearly put the WWF out of business not because they had the better storylines and workrate. They had the cash to raid Vince's talent pool and in turn steal away their fans. So unless Jerry Jarrett knows of somebody who's willing to write a few lucrative paychecks for him and take it to a national level, TNA will be nothing more than a glorifed indy. Sad to say, but money is everything in this world.

(edited by Swordsman Yen on 29.4.03 2119)


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Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#12 Posted on
While I am not going to sit here and say that NWA is going to eventually destroy WWE or become their equal, there's one point I feel a need to address.

People mention the lack of names, or the fact that they are using "castoffs" from other promotions. I really think this point is not exactly the stumbling block people make it out to be. I mean, let's look at the people who turned around WWF and made it #1 again:

Steve Austin - former WCW castoff, brief run in ECW.
Undertaker - Worked WCW, but to be fair it was a LONG time before the boom period.
Mick Foley - ECW for years, formerly a midcarder in WCW.
HHH - Midcarder in WCW as Jean-Paul Levesque
X-Pac - part of the NWO angle before going back to give DX the huge spark.
Rock - Developed by WWF.

So really you have a mix of castoffs and developed talent. The key is in what you do with that talent. If you reinvent it like Austin in WWF, or like Ron Killings in NWA you have the chance to make a whole new person for the fans.



"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it." - Robert E. Lee

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Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 13 days
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#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by spf2119
    While I am not going to sit here and say that NWA is going to eventually destroy WWE or become their equal, there's one point I feel a need to address.

    People mention the lack of names, or the fact that they are using "castoffs" from other promotions. I really think this point is not exactly the stumbling block people make it out to be. I mean, let's look at the people who turned around WWF and made it #1 again:

    Steve Austin - former WCW castoff, brief run in ECW.
    Undertaker - Worked WCW, but to be fair it was a LONG time before the boom period.
    Mick Foley - ECW for years, formerly a midcarder in WCW.
    HHH - Midcarder in WCW as Jean-Paul Levesque
    X-Pac - part of the NWO angle before going back to give DX the huge spark.
    Rock - Developed by WWF.

    So really you have a mix of castoffs and developed talent. The key is in what you do with that talent. If you reinvent it like Austin in WWF, or like Ron Killings in NWA you have the chance to make a whole new person for the fans.



The difference with those guys and what TNA needs to do, is that when the WWF used them to make money from them, they had all undergone dramatic gimmick changes to the point where most fans didn't even recognize them anymore. I think X-Pac is the only one who stayed about the same, and I doubt more than a dozen people cared enough to remember Triple H or the Undertaker's WCW runs.

If TNA is just counting on using the WWF guys as they were when they leave the fed (or going back to their ECW or WCW days) then those guys will jump at the chance to go back to the WWF when asked. A big reason some guys didn't want to go to WCW when they had ALL the money was the fact that they knew WCW wouldn't know what to do with them. If TNA is using them the same as the WWF is, then it all comes down to money and exposure.


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Since: 26.7.02
From: Maine

Since last post: 2775 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.91
Eventually, they could.

They need to get the fuck away from the PPV format they have now and get a real cable deal. Even then, it would be a long, slow process, but I could see it happening if WWE continues being stale and boring. I would watch TNA every week if I didn't have to pay ten bucks to do it, and I think a lot of other people would, too. They just need to build up their stars until people see them as something more than WWE castoffs and glorified indy workers.

It could definitely happen.

Minor quibble: "Can TNA eventually serve as WWE's main competition" is not a "fact or fiction" (true or false) question. It should be worded as a statement: "TNA can eventually serve as WWE's main competition."



Rangers Lead the Way!
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3503 days
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#15 Posted on
The number one thing TNA can do is change their damn name. I've never heard a more bush league name for a federation. Hell WOW sounds more professional.



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Since: 2.7.02
From: Jaaaaamacia Mon, No Problem.

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#16 Posted on
I think they could be a great alternative.

1)They need a national TV deal. CBS owns TNN,MTV, and VH1 so it won't happen with them. And I don't think ABC or NBC and their other networks want wrestling. TNT and TBS won't bring wrestling in because they don't think they can profit, and they've f#cked it up before. Ted Turner has money issues, but has interest if he buys back one of his networks or starts up a new one.

USA would be a great fit, they had WWF before it was really a money maker. But will they take the chance?

2)They might need to pool their resources or have merger with ROH. They use some of their wrestlers now, but they would have a bigger talent pool, some more creative people, and another base of operations(In Pennsylvania).

3)Go where the WWE won't go, here in Western Mass WWE hits Springfield Civic Center but doesn't have a deal to go to the arena at Umass. Plus hit all the wrestling hot spots. Be smart,if WWE has a show in Ohio be in Florida or somewhere else.

4)If thay set up a TV deal then maybe they could make 40$ for one PPV a month instead of 10$ a week. And they could do like boxing and use the mat as add space and sell it in one month deals, I think some of the Japan feds do it.

5)Net Hack has a good point. Just call it NWA, the TNA
sounds kind of lame.

6)They need to cut back on their use off dirty words.



"SAL BANDINI, WANNA WRESTLE?"
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Weisswurst








Since: 9.4.03

Since last post: 4097 days
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#17 Posted on
Well, at the moment, they are WWE's main competition by default, which is depressing. That said, they really need to change their business plan if they want any longevity.

As said previously, the PPV format isn't working, as they're only getting 12-13k buys per week, and buys were low as 7,500 at the end of last year. Let's face it, how many people does that mean are watching at the moment? Not a hell of a lot. They've also had to cater to internet fans in order to get these buys, and that kind of writing doesn't transfer well if they want to attract casual fans.

Add that to the fact that they haven't tried to draw anywhere else in the country, and are still comping a small venue, and it doesn't show much signs of progress.

Regardless of the quality of their shows, it's their business plan that has to change. Unfortunately, there's no chance of them getting a national TV deal IMO.



~Victory Through Guts~
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 3 hours
#18 Posted on
The roster is fairly safe however. I highly doubt that the WWE is going to raid TNA for Raven, Credible and Jerry Lynn. Most of the guys in TNA had a turn in the WWE, and couldn't get over or change in ring styles. TNA may lose a few names if they ever started growing, but I really don't see anyone from the current roster getting over in the WWE.

TNA could do very well for itself with a cable contract. I also think it would be good for the WWE. I don't think TNA is a threat to the WWE though. The only threat the WWE has is itself.

(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 1.5.03 0939)


jwrestle
Lap cheong








Since: 4.4.03
From: Nitro WV

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#19 Posted on
I say it's just a matter of time before someone sneaks up on the WWE and cuts it's head off and starts running with the ball to make an IMPACT on the industry.



"Life is a circle we all meet again." Beastmaster
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 393 days
Last activity: 393 days
#20 Posted on
I'll say fact. However, that's a) at least 3 years down the line, b) Vince McMahon continually screwing up everything he touches, and c) the Panda Electric Group pouring serious money into advertising and a national cable deal. If Panda is willing to take serious initial losses and Vince McMahon's senility continues, then NWA-TNA can in fact become serious competition (remember, competition, not leader).



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Yeah his finisher in WCW was a Stone Cold Stunner not a Diamond Cutter. Not sure if his finisher is still the same thing since I haven't seen any of his TNA matches. Also I think the move was called the Chart Buster at one point.
- Quezzy, TNA...I didn't miss much (2003)
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