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The W - Football - *facepalm* Vick the the Rams? (Page 2)
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41
Quinn is stuck in a situation where he has to constantly fight for his job and at the same time has had no faith from his coaching staff. Plus, Braylon can't catch more then two passes a game, Edwards was his top receiver. Their O-line is terrible and the run game is pathetic. Cribbs their best player. I agree with Penquin, Quinn has been given no real chance at Cleveland. People just went throw him under the bus, because he played at Notre Dame. Even if he did, their team is so shitty that it won't matter. If he were on a team that was halfway decent like a Green Bay or Chargers or the Vikings, he would have good stats mainly due to the amazing offense they have. Also, I think Oakland's GM would like a re-do if he could get it.
MUTigermask
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Since: 8.10.03
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.16
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Quinn is stuck in a situation where he has to constantly fight for his job and at the same time has had no faith from his coaching staff. Plus, Braylon can't catch more then two passes a game, Edwards was his top receiver. Their O-line is terrible and the run game is pathetic. Cribbs their best player. I agree with Penquin, Quinn has been given no real chance at Cleveland. People just went throw him under the bus, because he played at Notre Dame. Even if he did, their team is so shitty that it won't matter. If he were on a team that was halfway decent like a Green Bay or Chargers or the Vikings, he would have good stats mainly due to the amazing offense they have. Also, I think Oakland's GM would like a re-do if he could get it.


I think it is pretty telling that Quinn has to fight for his job against freaking Derek Anderson. I will say this though. Drew Brees was pretty bad his first couple of years in the league, and he ended up ok, so he's not a lost cause.
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.03
Derek Anderson was in the Pro Bowl a few years ago and considered one of the best up and coming QBs in the league.. the team had gone downhill and the QB play has suffered, not a coincidence one way or the other no matter how you spin it, but it's not like Quinn and Anderson have had awful careers. That's my entire point, they're not Joey Harrington or Akili Smith yet.



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TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.33
Joey Harrington has a higher career completion percentage than Brady Quinn, has a higher career passer rating than Brady Quinn, and threw for more yards in every year he played than Brady Quinn has in three years combined.

Akili Smith's NFL career and Brady Quinn's NFL career thus far have been pretty much exactly the same.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 13.2.10 1619)
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.25

    Akili Smith's NFL career and Brady Quinn's NFL career thus far have been pretty much exactly the same.


....

Akili Smith:
Percentage 56.6%
TD-INT 5-13
Passing yards 2,212
QB Rating 52.8

Brady Quinn:
Percentage: 52.1%
TD–INT 10–9
Passing yards 1,902
QB Rating 66.8

I guess throwing over twice as many interceptions as touchdowns in about the same amount of starts = throwing more TDs than interceptions in your eyes, but not mine. Also note that Akili Smith was the starter from the getgo and Quinn barely played the first year (8 passes, I think). The only thing Smith has over Quinn is a slightly better completion percentage, and he made up for that by completing more passes to the other team too. Did you ever SEE Akili Smith play? He was awful. Couldn't read a defense to save his life. If you wanna be racial, he was like a JaMarcus Russell with the added bonus of ruining the Bengals who nobody actually cared about in the 90s, and they gave up on him way quicker.

Brady Quinn certainly hasn't been anything special, but that's because he went to Notre Dame and people excepted more from him. I said that above. Quarterbacks sometimes take a while to develop, and it's not fair to write him off in his career just yet.

The people who write Brady Quinn off expect too much too quick from this guy. He somehow 'fell' to the late 1st round despite not being brilliant in college, then he sucks because he hasn't completed 80 percent of his passes to such solid receivers as Braylon Edwards who never drop anything in their entire lives of course, and expecting him to lead the 2009 Browns to the playoffs is foolish at best and a mental condition at worst.

For comparison, here's Drew Brees first three years in the league. I bet you can find a lot of examples of QBs that took upwards of three years to develop in the NFL, but Quinn walked into a bad situation with no veteran QB ahead of him and was obviously the next Joe Montana because they went to the same school.

Drew Brees
Percentage: 540/909, sounds good
TD–INT 29-31
Passing yards 6,203
QB Rating Not sure.. note though he started twice as many games as Quinn

(edited by Psycho Penguin on 13.2.10 1718)


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TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.33
If you mean I don't think throwing 10 touchdowns and nine interceptions in 14 games is much more impressive than five touchdowns and 13 interceptions in 22 games, you're right. Both Akili Smith and Brady Quinn have awful career stat lines. Awful.

Look, all you're doing is saying stuff. Brady Quinn's stats show that Brady Quinn is a mediocre quarterback. If you think Brady Quinn is waiting for some unidentified outside factor to become Drew Brees, then you are entitled to your opinion, though you haven't really yet shown any evidence to support it. I still think the 20 or so NFL general managers who passed on drafting him are pretty comfortable with their decision right now.

It's possible to have individual stats that aren't so great but still be a good quarterback. For example, Michael Vick, the subject of this thread, doesn't have a great state line himself. His career completion percentage is even lower than that of Brady The Mediocre. But Vick has something like the second-highest career yards per completion average among active quarterbacks, and his rushing stats are great. There are things he does well that add to his value. I don't see such traits in Brady Quinn, and you've done nothing to convince me that I'm overlooking anything or said anything to support your claim that general managers who didn't draft the guy "had their heads up their asses."
Zeruel
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Since: 2.1.02
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.29
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin

    Drew Brees
    Percentage: 540/909, sounds good
    TD–INT 29-31
    Passing yards 6,203
    QB Rating Not sure.. note though he started twice as many games as Quinn

    (edited by Psycho Penguin on 13.2.10 1718)


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Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.25
I never once said anybody that passed on him had their head up their asses. All I said was the guy hasn't been awful and needs to be given more of a chance before being thrown under the bus because he hasn't been awful like Akili Smith yet all you do is think he's awful because he plays for the Browns and hasn't completed a ton of his passes yet.

Missed this earlier:



    It's possible, but I can't really think of any highly drafted players that failed on one team, and then succeeded on another team.


Steve Young and Ricky Williams are the best names I can think of. It's certainly possible.

(edited by Psycho Penguin on 13.2.10 1828)


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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.86
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
    I never once said anybody that passed on him had their head up their asses. All I said was the guy hasn't been awful and needs to be given more of a chance before being thrown under the bus because he hasn't been awful like Akili Smith yet all you do is think he's awful because he plays for the Browns and hasn't completed a ton of his passes yet.

    Missed this earlier:



      It's possible, but I can't really think of any highly drafted players that failed on one team, and then succeeded on another team.


    Steve Young and Ricky Williams are the best names I can think of. It's certainly possible.

    (edited by Psycho Penguin on 13.2.10 1828)






Patron saint for Quarterbacks coming off the scrap heap is Jim Plunkett. Heisman winner, #1 pick, bad to mediocre with the Patriots until he was replaced by Grogan, a disaster with the 49ers, I believe down to 3rd string with the Raiders when everyone got hurt, and he miraculously leads them to a Super Bowl title as a wild card, and follows it up 3 years later with another Super Bowl victory to make him a level beneath Hall of Fame quarterback. He doesn't have the chance with the Raiders, he gets mentioned at the top of the list of all time busts.
TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.33

    I never once said anybody that passed on him had their head up their asses.


You are right, that was lotjx. My humblest apologies.
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.25
Thats fine =D I don't want you to dislike me since you like the Bucs and USF and I like them as well (although not as much as you obviously)

I think we can all agree Vick is a better QB than Quinn to this point though, yeah. I'd put Vick from 2004 in the top 10 QBs actually and the Rams wouldn't be much worse off trying him for a season if they draft a decent QB in a later round. I remember there being a MAC QB (not LeFevour) that I liked a lot but probably won't be drafted high.



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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41
I stand by that assertion since the Redskins, Rams, Oakland, Bucs and Lions passed on him. I bet they wished they would have drafted him instead of who they drafted. Its not like they couldn't develop him as a back-up then starter or just straight up started. I would put the Bills in that boat, but they got Marshall Lynch.
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.25
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I stand by that assertion since the Redskins, Rams, Oakland, Bucs and Lions passed on him. I bet they wished they would have drafted him instead of who they drafted. Its not like they couldn't develop him as a back-up then starter or just straight up started. I would put the Bills in that boat, but they got Marshall Lynch.


Bucs and Lions have fine QBs now so they're not too worried. Redskins and Rams definitely though. The Rams not taking a QB in the last few years led them in part to this 1-15 season, I believe.



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StingArmy
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Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
Akili Smith was picked third overall, meaning his success or failure had much higher ramifications than Quinn's. Also, Smith is like one of the worst quarterbacks to ever play. Saying that Brady Quinn isn't as bad as Akili Smith isn't saying anything really. And to be honest, looking at the numbers posted in this thread, it's not that clear that Quinn ISN'T as bad as Smith.
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I stand by that assertion since the Redskins, Rams, Oakland, Bucs and Lions passed on him. I bet they wished they would have drafted him instead of who they drafted. Its not like they couldn't develop him as a back-up then starter or just straight up started. I would put the Bills in that boat, but they got Marshall Lynch.

Are you kidding me? As bad as JaMarcus Russell has been there's no way you can say Quinn has been any better. And do you even know who the Redskins and the Bucs drafted in the first round that year? LaRon Landry (top 10 safety in the league) and Gaines Adams (top 20 D-lineman when he was alive). And not only do the Lions have a future franchise QB now, they drafted Calvin Johnson in 2007. Oh yeah, I'm sure they're KILLING themselves for picking him instead of the illustrious Brady Quinn. And btw, the man's name is Marshawn, not Marshall.

Oh, also, wtf:
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
    If you wanna be racial, he was like a JaMarcus Russell with the added bonus of ruining the Bengals who nobody actually cared about in the 90s, and they gave up on him way quicker.

That was... weird. If you wanna be racial? What on earth is that supposed to even mean?

- StingArmy
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.25
Because historically black Bs get compared to each other no matter how different their styles are, just like people try to find thin comparisons everywhere and compare everyone no matter how small the similarity. I posted about that earlier.



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dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.42
It has to be a slow news week when the relative merits of Brady Quinn, JaMarcus Russell and Akili freaking Smith generate this much discussion.

That said, how the heck did the Redskins get dragged in as a team that would be beating themselves up for passing on Brady? Jason Campbell's done a pretty decent job at QB there under often crappy circumstances, and that Landry kid that they drafted instead seems like he knows what he's up to.

I'm all for the idea that you can't judge a QB by his stat line, but what exactly are folks seeing in Brady Quinn in the NFL that makes you think he's better than he appears? I watch him and see a guy that looks jittery under pressure, is frequently inaccurate and is mediocre at best when he has to run with the ball.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    I agree with Penquin, Quinn has been given no real chance at Cleveland. People just went throw him under the bus, because he played at Notre Dame......Also, I think Oakland's GM would like a re-do if he could get it.
So you're saying Quinn's struggling because of the situation in Cleveland, and you think he'd have done better in Oakland? OAKLAND?!

Really, that's what you're saying? If he'd wound up at the Raiders he'd be in a similarly crappy situation, likely putting up similarly crappy numbers.

I have no interest in what college he went to and no desire to throw anyone under a bus. I just think Brady Quinn isn't good enough to play quarterback in the NFL. I look at his stats and I don't think he's good enough. I watch him play and I don't think he's good enough. Not good enough now, and no signs he's going to improve to the point where he's good enough in the future.

I guess one of us will feel a bit silly when this crops up in the random quote generator in a couple of years.
drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.32
    Originally posted by dMr
      Originally posted by lotjx
      I agree with Penquin, Quinn has been given no real chance at Cleveland. People just went throw him under the bus, because he played at Notre Dame......Also, I think Oakland's GM would like a re-do if he could get it.
    So you're saying Quinn's struggling because of the situation in Cleveland, and you think he'd have done better in Oakland? OAKLAND?!

    Really, that's what you're saying? If he'd wound up at the Raiders he'd be in a similarly crappy situation, likely putting up similarly crappy numbers.


No, he's saying Oakland would rather have Quinn than JaMarcus Russell. More of a statement on Russell sucking than Quinn's ability, I'd assume.





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Since: 2.11.02
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.42
    Originally posted by drjayphd
      Originally posted by dMr
        Originally posted by lotjx
        I agree with Penquin, Quinn has been given no real chance at Cleveland. People just went throw him under the bus, because he played at Notre Dame......Also, I think Oakland's GM would like a re-do if he could get it.
      So you're saying Quinn's struggling because of the situation in Cleveland, and you think he'd have done better in Oakland? OAKLAND?!

      Really, that's what you're saying? If he'd wound up at the Raiders he'd be in a similarly crappy situation, likely putting up similarly crappy numbers.


    No, he's saying Oakland would rather have Quinn than JaMarcus Russell. More of a statement on Russell sucking than Quinn's ability, I'd assume.

Yes, but they'd probably rather have syphilis than JaMarcus, so....

I assumed his point was that Brady Quinn would be doing better there. Why the devil would anyone think the Raiders want a re-do (sic) to draft Quinn unless the inference was that he would put up better numbers than he has? If he went there and did exactly for Oakland as he's done for Cleveland, the same people would still be saying he sucks. Only difference is he'd be getting paid much more for sucking.

There's a whole bunch of people the Oakland Raiders would rather have drafted than JaMarcus Russell. Calvin Johnson looks OK. Darrelle Revis too. And that Adrian Peterson kid can run a bit.

If the Raiders are kicking themselves over who they picked in 2007, it's got hee-haw to do with Brady Quinn.
Psycho Penguin
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.25
I don't know why a point about Brady Quinn's career not being over has devolved into a topic about his current merits, but I never said he's been any good in his career. I'm saying he has a chance to and he's still young. Give him a chance. If he was a 23rd pick from Toledo people wouldn't be so hard on him. Yeah, he hasn't looked overly great, but he's only started 14 career games.

Please don't post about how he's sucked in his career and will always suck, because there's no way for you to know that. Players get really good or bad all of a sudden a lot more than you'd think.



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whatever
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Since: 12.2.02
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.49
I swear, you guys are killing me.

I don't hate Brady Quinn, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if he was cut tomorrow. I think his development has absolutely suffered under horrible, horrible management & coaching for his first couple of years in the league. I totally believe he could do better on a better team with better QB coaching. It's not like he was Roethlisberger who stepped onto a championship caliber team (*barf*) that masked his rookie learning curve.

As for Vick, I'll be curious to see what happens to Philly's QB situation overall. I don't think Vick is staying there, but it doesn't seem obvious yet where he'll land. I hear rumors that the Browns may have contacted Philly about McNabb, and there are some fans hoping they could get Kolb instead. It should be interesting to see.




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