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The W - Pro Wrestling - FACE OR HEEL
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BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
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#1 Posted on
Will Vince McMahons powers be enough to get the nWo booed by WWF fans? The first reaction will obviously be cheers for the returning old timers, but will they get *over* as heels? This is a hard one to call and I guess it depends how well it's booked. On one hand how can the fans go against Austin and the Rock for Hogan and Nash? Maybe Hall/Nash and Hogan are still to cool to get booed...any thoughts?
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ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 156 days
Last activity: 3 days
#2 Posted on
If they play to the crowd with the survey, Wolfpac in the house and such, they'll get face heat. Which is something they don't want in this instance.

If they don't play to the crowd, they simply come in and kick ass, that could create heel heat. But you'll remember that Stone Cold Steve Austin was much the same way and he became a default face in 1997.

Overall, it's hard to truly determine what a crowd's reaction to a wrestler or group of wrestlers will be until you try it. Perhaps they could pull this off with very, very specific booking.

A Hogan 20-minute interview would do it for me. Then again, it'd also make me change the channel.



“You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, this is not far from the truth.”

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dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 2 min.
#3 Posted on
Austin was a different kind of face/heel. He was the guy that got average heat and attacked people with average heat and then got in a feud with the boss..

The nWo will get big heat (this is the way they are being pushed and stuff) and if they beat down the big faces or just run havoc on anybody people care about they will get big time heel heat.
To keep it in the long run all depends on how the storyline unfolds, who they feud with and ofcourse how they interact with the crowd.



"...And I use that to f*ck them some place fairly uncomfortable."
"What, like the back of a volkswagen ?"
-Mallrats
The Producer
Cotto








Since: 23.1.02
From: Cleveland, OH

Since last post: 4667 days
Last activity: 4373 days
#4 Posted on
There are several ways to get the nWo over as killer heels without hurting the product. Tried and true methods would include:

(1) putting them in alignment with the most despicable people around - to me, this would mean that they would be happily taking orders from not only Vince, but also Stephanie.

(2) having them feud with the most popular people around - which is certainly a part of the plan, though I'd guess Rock, Austin and Flair vs. Hogan, Nash and Hall at WM is pretty unlikely - it would certainly work.

(3) having someone turn with them who the crowd really hates for doing it (Flair?)

(4) not letting them speak extemporaneously (every promo has to involve ripping down the fans and a major face) and having them be cowardly at every opportunity.

But it certainly does seem a lot easier to get them over as cool heels. I can't imagine that Nash can give a promo at this point without getting cheered to start. Even Jericho showing up and trashing the Rock took a while to get over as "heel antics" a while back.



When you've got it, flaunt it!
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 157 days
Last activity: 124 days
#5 Posted on

Much to my chargin, I can tell you that at Smackdown last night, there were MANY NWO signs and a large majority of the crowd cheered whenever they were mentioned.

As always, they will be possibly booed when with Vince and cheered without him.





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Young girls, they call them
The Diamond Dogs.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#6 Posted on
Like Producer said, teaming them up with Vince pretty makes them a heel. Plus I think bringing them in slowly does two things.

1. It gauges what the fans are going to do when they return whenver they mention nWo or show a video or whatever.

2. If you just bring them in all of sudden a lot of the crowd may mark out and cheer for them because it's a surprise, but now that they know it's coming it won't happen that way.



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THAT IS AWESOME!
SerWolfe
Landjager








Since: 11.1.02
From: st louis

Since last post: 4243 days
Last activity: 4243 days
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#7 Posted on
yeah they now know they are coming... but look at the reaction... cheering when they are mentioned.. the signs... how many more signs do you think there will be when they do appear?... Look at D-X... they were supposed to be heels and the next thing you know every other sign had something to do with them... as a result they became the cool heels....



Dont you wish that you were me??? no?.... i've got two words for ya!
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 10 hours
#8 Posted on
Hogan may be a big key in keeping them heel, I think many WWF fans are still programmed to hate everything about him. I don't know if Nash is capable of playing a heel like Triple H did a year a go. The fans kept wanting to cheer Triple H, but he'd kept coming up with new reasons for them to hate him. Nash kinda toes the line then just goes for cool bad ass face.

Another factor that the WWF has to look at is if they are cheered how will they deal with it. WCW's way never worked. Even though the crowd was cheering the nWo Shivonee and company kept insisting that the fans were 100% behind WCW. In the end they looked foolish and it's something that Ross, Lawler and Cole are going to have to watch out for.
Hopper
Weisswurst








Since: 5.1.02
From: Oregon

Since last post: 4625 days
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#9 Posted on
I think that to keep nWo cool have Hogan wrestle Maven and do his usual ***** match. Then after that match have him do Hogan's stupid ass posing. Then have Austin come in and kick Hogan's ass. Well, that would make me happy at least and I would still hate Hogan.



Marge all I did was marry her. We didn't make whoopie or even mouth whoopie.
mskj
Summer sausage








Since: 10.1.02
From: Tennessee

Since last post: 998 days
Last activity: 757 days
#10 Posted on
I think the WWF should play these guys as heels, and keep playing them as heels, no matter what reaction they get. Even as Vince and Flair play these guys up as poison or death or whatever, I have a very hard time seeing the return of HULK HOGAN to the WWF as being insta-heel heat. I don't care how they portrayed him after he left, or what he may have done in WCW, he is still Hulk Hogan. Isn't the WWF's target base (at least what they say publicly) something like 18-26 year olds? Alot of that group grew up marking out for Hogan (myself included). The way i see it the nWo is going to have lots of heel heat by association with Vince, and initially lots of face heat just because of who they are. And like i said, i think the WWF should just push them as heels no matter what the reaction, and somewhere down the line give us the huge blowoff with all nWo members going down. Anyway the more i think about this angle, the more i am excited about it. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the next few months play out.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Edison, New Jersey, America

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#11 Posted on
Total heels. The way they are being built up is that the nWo is supposed to be Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse 2K2 ripping the WWF to shreads. Therefore, they have to come in, be completely serious, be ruthless in and out of the ring to WWF guys, and essentially be total shit-kickers until someone (the Rock? Steve Austin? Essa Rios? OK, maybe not Essa.) challenges them and dethrones/weakens them for vengence. None of this cutesy "Hey yo" crap, that won't do in this case.



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...But many fear....THE MOUNTIE!
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Sec19Row53
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 4 hours
Y!:
#12 Posted on
If Vince can manage to make the NWO heels, I'll be amazed. With the signs already in the crowds, the 3 hour sellout for No Way Out, and the talk on the net, I can't see them as anything but faces.

Of course, I'll be booing (I think).



[It's where I sit]
badnews4life
Chaurice








Since: 30.1.02
From: richmond, va

Since last post: 4678 days
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#13 Posted on
Maybe they could make the nWo heels by replacing ex-nWo diva Miss Elizabeth with Mae Young. Either that, or say that Hall and Nash have been out because they were fighting with the Taliban.



Where's La Parka?
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 2 min.
#14 Posted on
Wouldn't fighting with the Talib..oh..I get it. against them.

The signs in the crowd are inevitable. But I trust that using the promos and the bad mouthing will get the crowd to hate them once they walk in.

As long as they don't pose as faces (no matter how hard it is for them) things will be alright.
Remember how wwf fans were trained to hate all things wcw?
The same is being done right now. A nice little bit of brainwashing and group thinking.



"...And I use that to f*ck them some place fairly uncomfortable."
"What, like the back of a volkswagen ?"
-Mallrats
The Producer
Cotto








Since: 23.1.02
From: Cleveland, OH

Since last post: 4667 days
Last activity: 4373 days
#15 Posted on
Folks, I have to say I think we're overrating two things:

(1) Hogan's lack of appeal to the casual fan.

and

(2) the impact of past nWo antics on what happens now.

Sure I agree that babyface Hulk-a-mania wouldn't go over worth a damn (witness the fact that Kurt Angle's much-more-in-tune-with-the-00's act is met with gargantuan chants of "You Suck"). But the folks in the stands will cheer Hogan as a cool heel if the rest of the nWo are cool, and if he tightens (read: shortens) his promos. I am certain that all Hogan has to do is be funny to get over as a cool heel. Most of the audience doesn't remember Mick Foley at this stage, Hogan will be a big name but can absolutely reinvent himself. They don't hate him - not saying they won't soon, brother, but they don't have any reason to now.




When you've got it, flaunt it!
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 10 hours
#16 Posted on
Well then I guess the only answer to making them true heels is, well, X-Pac!

Will this make the whole WWF roster face then, or will half the roster just ignore the fact that the posion is already in the WWF's veins.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1459 days
Last activity: 367 days
#17 Posted on
I would think that it'd make the WWF guys de facto faces, kinda like in the Invasion angle.

How was it in WCW back in 96-97? Was the whole roster turned face simply because of the NWO?
CxMorgado
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

Since last post: 333 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#18 Posted on
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    I would think that it'd make the WWF guys de facto faces, kinda like in the Invasion angle.

    How was it in WCW back in 96-97? Was the whole roster turned face simply because of the NWO?



As I recall, WCW kept a lot of their regular face/heel divisions for all of the NWO era...
I remember both Eddy and Regal as non-NWO heels for 96/97...





"Wanna see how far I can go. Test my patience, see what I know.
Just not happy with nothing to do. Getting bold when there's more than two."
- Cro-mags.

(edited by CxMorgado on 31.1.02 1329)
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 10 hours
AIM:  
#19 Posted on
Eddy, Regal and others were still heels when involved in WCW vs. WCW feuds and matches, but just about everyone in WCW operated as a face against the nWo at the start. Eddy and Regal, for example, were late survivors in the big WW3 match that I mentioned in another thread. And Regal was one of the guys who lead the WCW locker room in the charge to the ring to fight the nWo at the end of a Nitro.

I can't quite remember if the Heat were supposed to be heels or faces before the Outsiders showed up, but they ended up as faces at the Halloween Havoc where the Outsiders won the tag belts. I think Flair and the Horsemen were still heels right up until they went directly against the nWo. So it was all pretty situational.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 10 hours
#20 Posted on
But if Three guys are coming in to destroy your promotion you either fight them off or you join them no? I know that was the original idea with Bichoff's 48 hour join or be termanated deal, although that was one of those ideas that probably looked better on paper.
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Next year, I'm going to figure out some way to count Heat and Velocity matches as being worth less than RAW, Smackdown and PPVs. I haven't figured out how yet, but I'll come up with something. EDIT:
- OlFuzzyBastard, 2003 Statistics Through September (2003)
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