The Flair thread had me wondering about what they'll include on the WCW DVD. Undoubtedly, most of it will be a documentary about how the WWF is the greatest company ever created, and WCW got lucky a couple of times and then died like all other promotions do.
For the documentary portion, I'd expect it to be basically Vince, Big Show, Jericho, and Foley talking about how godawful the company was, while Bischoff would say how he did some innovative things but ultimately, Mr. McMahon proved to be God.
It's difficult to determine which clips they'll show because they run the risk of promoting wrestlers and other people the WWE does not associate with or want to acknowledge the existence of. Namely Vince Russo himself, whose ego would blow up times 100 if they mentioned him by name or by video. I expect them to say "A former WWE writer took over WCW to try to beat his former employer, but he sucked"..and that concludes the Vince Russo era. Even though this was the striking blow that ended WCW for good.
Here are the extras I'm guessing they could/should put on, excluding stuff like Luger's debut, Russo's world title win, anything that shows Jarrett in a positive light, RuBisch era, etc which however important, they won't put on for obvious reasons. It's possible they'll put in clips of those in the doc though.
Rise: Some early WCW clip with the Horsemen, Sting First WCW Nitro with Hogan vs Traylor Hall debuts Bash at the Beach '96 Madusa trashing belt Hogan vs Goldberg
Fall: DX invades WCW (heh) Finger poke of doom Arquette world title win Last Nitro Flair/Sting Last Nitro Vince promo, then Shane buys WCW
Of course, if I were putting this together it'd be a lot different, but I'm being realistic as to what World Wrestling Entertainment and Vince McMahon as a company would put out.
Short of Terra Ryzing matches, what else could you see WWE acknowledging that deserve to be on a WCW rise and fall compilation? Keep in mind it's only one-disc, so nothing too obscure.
WWE can't accurately portray the rise and fall of WCW, because WCW rose because it did the exact opposite of WWE: the cruiserweights were given loads of time and the same people weren't running the main event. And the nWo angle. WCW fell because it imitated WWE: cruisers were treated like crap and every week it was the same people fighting each other. And the nWo angle.
Lost in Cleveland (am I the only one who's never seen it?) First Nitro Hall defects New World Order formed (first time) Rise of Goldberg Goldberg vs. Hogan Cruiserweights Last time Nitro beat Raw nWo splits Goldberg puts his arm through a limo Vince Russo David Arquette wins WCW Title, turns heel Final Nitro
Originally posted by CRZ on January 4, 2001Somebody should remind Jericho that Y2K is over and he risks dating himself.
Originally posted by CRZ on December 24, 2001Look, it's almost 2002 - is there ANY chance we'll see the "Y2J" moniker fall by the wayside ANY time soon?
In the "rise" section of this dvd the WWE could promote current WWE superstars who spent a portion of their career in WCW. Benoit, Foley, Jericho, HHH, etc, etc...you all know the list. It could give newbie fans an insight into what we all watched while it was happening.
The "fall" disc is odvious. They could have former WCW stars who worked with the company to the end. Booker, Steiner, Flair, Kidman, etc, tec you know the list.
I wonder if they'll actualy show entire matches. It could be neat to see if the WWE puts over any ex-WCW stars who aren't currently employed with them.
If done right it could be a good dvd. I'll check it out.
"If you put the letter 'S' in front of Hitman, you get my basic oppinion of Bret Hart!"-Steve Austin to Brian Pillman September 96 in regards to Bret Hart...and, no I'm not calling you stupid!
It will probably a longer version of two things: The 'rise and fall' pieces they did on Confidential about a year back (it's on the Best of Confidential DVD) and the history of wrestling WWE style, as seen at the starting of the nWo DVD.
You'll have comments from Bischoff, Flair, Nash, Booker Big Show, Jericho and anyone else who on the WCW side at the time and the usual cast of characters who were in WWE for the entire Monday Night wars (Stone Cold, HHH, McMahon, JR etc.) Nothing you haven't seen or heard a dozen times before.
What I'd much rather see is a best of WCW set. While its unfair to take their best stuff and boil it down to a half-dozen hours or so, this is better than yet-another WCW bashing vehicle AND it could make Flair DVD type of money. Here's what I would put on it (at least, ones that haven't already been put on previous or upcoming DVD collections).
Also, I'm going on the assumption that it would be just WCW, not the pre-1990 NWA stuff, just to put a timeframe on it:
- Sting vs. Ric Flair (Great American Bash 1990; although that could have been NWA still, I can't remember) - Doom vs. Arn Anderson and Barry Windham (Streetfight, Starrcade 90) - Sting and Lex Luger vs. The Steiner Brothers (SuperBrawl '91) - Brian Pillman vs. Jushin Liger (think this may have been Christmas Day 91, believe it was televised) - Lex Luger vs. Ron Simmons 2/3 falls (Hallowe'en Havoc 92) - Ric Flair & Arn Anderson vs. Hollywood Blonds (2/3 Falls, Clash of the Champions 1993) - Nasty Boys vs. Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne (Slamboree, I believe?) - Ricky Steamboat vs. Rick Rude (Iron Man Match, Beach Blast) - Team Sting vs. Dangerous Alliance (War Games, Fall Brawl) - Raven vs. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Chris Benoit (forget what show that was on, thinking it was Thunder) - Chris Jericho vs. Dean Malenko (don't remember the PPV) - Goldberg vs. Hulk Hogan (Nitro, 1997?) - Bret Hart vs. Ric Flair (Souled Out, 1998) - Bret Hart vs. Chris Benoit (Tribute Match, 1999 Nitro)
Then for the features, you could do a year-by-year recap between 1990 and 2001, what the major angles were, etc., have wrestlers comment on them looking back, etc.
There are so many reasons why WCW fell to begin with that it's really hard to pinpoint it on one. Except to blame Eric Bischoff himself for not having a firm hold on storylines and, ultimately, not pleasing his fanbase.
I think signing Bret did have a lot to do with the downfall, but it wasn't the big thing that put them over the edge. Bret was thrust into the limelight right away in WCW and didn't have anything going on and, when he did, it seemed more like he was in the way of the wrestlers WCW had built up from 1996-1997.
I think a lot of Bret's failures in WCW can be attributed to Hulk Hogan pulling the strings, though. Bret came in, thinking he'd get his big dream match with Hulk Hogan, which Hogan used to shift titles away from guys like Sting, DDP, and Goldberg (the three WCW homegrown stars who actually drew) so that the big "Hogan/Bret" match could happen, and ultimately didn't.
I don't think Bret Hart can be blamed; he's just an example of the mismanagement at the time. He could have been huge but Hogan and others decided that wasn't in the cards. They did nothing in the way of character development, yet flip-flopped him so many times that it didn't really matter whether he was part of the show by the end.
For whatever it's worth (and not much at that), I blame Time Warner. THEY could have developed a proper structure when things started going wrong. THEY could have taken a more hands on approach to making it turn a profit. And THEY certainly could have decided to keep the show on their network, ensuring that the company would have been run a separate entity (eg Fusient). But Time Warner did none of that, and all the other problems stemmed from there.
That's why I think a `rise and fall of WCW' DVD is pointless. Bischoff will blame people at Turner for not selling him the company. The wrestlers will blame the lack of a structure, and Bischoff, and Russo. So what? Everyone already knows that. If we're going to take a look back, I'd much rather see the GOOD things about WCW.
WWE can't miss the perfect chance to shit on the opposistion:
NWA-TNA's biggest star JEFF JARRETT vs. WWE's biggest star ever HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN and Jarrett lays down - Bash at the Beach 1994?
Would love 2 see some matches with Booker T, Steiner, Cactus Jack, Kidman, Mysterio and other stars. They'll try to keep it too WWE Stars:
*Hulk Hogan vs. Goldberg, Nitro 1997 *Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant (Big Show), Hog Wild 1998? *Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio, Souled Out 1998 and the usual Ric Flair, Scott Steiner, Kidman, Cactus Jack, ect without including the big opposition in a big like except maybe Sting and Luger.
Should be gud as I am young and never saw a lot of WCW besides what is on DVDs like Confidential and NWO.
for those who were interested.... the seedings for the WWF No Mercy Tourney Challenge...
(1)Steve Austin vs. (16)Grandmaster Sexay
(5)Edge vs. (12)Al Snow
(4)Kevin Nash vs. (13)Mr. Perfect
(7)Tajiri vs. (10)D-Lo Brown