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The W - Pro Wrestling - Experimenting with markdom: the WWF is actually pretty good!
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Qubber
Boerewors








Since: 7.1.02
From: Sheffield, UK

Since last post: 2659 days
Last activity: 1921 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
When Ric Flair debuted on Raw last year, it should have been one of the greatest mark out moments in my life as a wrestling fan but, while I thought it was great, it didnít live up to the hype. The key here is ďhypeĒ. Thanks to 1wrestling and the Observer, I knew Flair was coming in and was even at the Raw tapings well in advance of me sitting down to watch the show. If I hadnít known in advance and built up my expectations, I would have marked out the same way I did when I was a kid for Warrior beating Hogan, or Jake ďThe SnakeĒ popping up in WCW. Now I thought that was pretty sad, since the debut was brilliantly handled and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I just didnít mark out the way I thought I would have. As a result, I stopped reading all spoilers and news on the net until Iíd let at least a week pass from the time I watched the show so as to avoid being influenced or building preconceptions. I avoid the Raw and Smackdown threads here, and actually sit back and try to be a mark, be surprised and let the WWF entertain me without all the smark baggage. Guess what? Being a mark is the best thing ever. Iím optimistic about the product, and Iím enjoying the WWF more than I have in years.

Admittedly, this trying life as a mark experiment is probably flawed since the run up to WrestleMania usually produces good stuff anyway, but the past week of programming (by that I mean Raw and Smackdown) produced only one match that I used the fast forward button on and generally the WWF really did entertain the hell out of me.

Iím loving Kurt Angle, his crowd heat, his moves, his interviews, just everything. He is the man for me right now. Iím looking forwards to the nWo. Yes I knew they were coming, but Iím avoiding finding out when so I can be as surprised as all non-internet fans. Sure, the matches involving them might suck, but their debut could be blow away good if they do it right, and the build up so far is just perfect for me: the nWo are being presented as a legitimate threat, with (shock!) history. Even if they fluff it, the ride is fun at this point. Undertaker, in my mind, is being handled right for the first time since his debut as BikerTaker. This past week with his destruction of Maven and his attempted destruction of Rock just hit the nail on the head with how Taker should be: an ornery badass, who really doesnít give a damn, rather than a no-selling face who just says he doesnít give a damn. Then while the big things are hitting, the little things are clicking too, Regal/Dudleys vs RVD/Edge in whatever combination seems to have legs, and Iím finally starting to be bothered about Edge (I was always a Christian fan) and I really think this feud is giving his character some much needed depth.

Thatís just a snapshot. Sure there are negatives too, but theyíre so less noticeable when youíre able to sit back and be at least prepared to be entertained. I can't recommend disengaging from the net just a little bit enough. I donít get the prevailing attitude on the net (not necessarily as much here as elsewhere, but it's still about) that because itís a monopoly nowadays, the WWF has to suck. The WWF really, really doesnít suck. I also hate the fact that a lot of people seem to jump on whatever bandwagon is going and follow suit without even stopping to formulate their own opinion (címon people Triple H isnít that bad!). Iím going to stick with this mark point of view method until it stops being fun. Just give it a try, honestly. You might even be surprised yourself.




"Nobody enjoys a good time more than I do, but this business of yours is as legitimate as a three-legged donkey...which of course is illegitimate because as we all know donkeys have four legs."

Lance Storm, 21st January 2002.
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DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 85 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Good man, Qubber!

Spoilers = Evil. I realized how much they ruined the shows for me a couple years ago when I didnt have access to the net for a few days and I had to watch SD! without prior knowlegde of what was going to happen. I havent read one since.

In other news, the WWF does *NOT* suck, the nWo angle *IS* interesting (so far, so good), and the product in general *IS* getting better. I'm tired of these haters who cant find anything positive to say about the WWF anymore.



Call me now for your free reading~!
ScreamingHeadGuy
Frankfurter








Since: 1.2.02
From: Appleton, WI

Since last post: 657 days
Last activity: 657 days
#3 Posted on
I did the same thing for a few months leading up to Survivor Series. I just quit going to wrestling sites on the internet and watched. I have to say that was the most fun time I've had watching wrestling since, well, a long time.

I still avoid spoilers, and I tend to limit my wrestling-internet activity. I mean, I don't need to read what someone thought about what happened last week's show.

Marking-out is FUN!



Fighting evil by moonlight,
Winning love by daylight,
Never one to take a slight,
He is the one ScreamingHeadGuy
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 4 hours
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#4 Posted on
I have to put in my $.02 regarding spoilers being quite useful things. I have a life beyond watching WWF programming sometimes, and knowing what I can expect to see makes SD an easier call on whether or not it's a can't miss, maybe waste a tape, or avoid at all costs episode. I like having one episode live a week, which I can build my schedule around as my can't miss this show, and then having the other one be optional for me, and being able to make that call before it airs.



There, I feel better now.
BrewGuy
Kolbasz








Since: 2.1.02
From: Pickering, Ontario

Since last post: 454 days
Last activity: 198 days
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ICQ:  
#5 Posted on
I'm kind of on both side of the fense when it comes to spoilers. They're sort of a crapshoot.

Yes, I generally read them, but because I just generally browse them, by the time SmackDown! actually airs, I've forgotten most of the details (unless its some major event). So, when I watch SD, it's not quite as exciting as Raw, but since I don't read every detail about the match/angle/whatever, I still enjoy it.

I think the important thing is to not make a judgement on reading a spoiler. Somebody who reads something in a spoiler then says "Oh man, that SUCKED!" drives me crazy - you don't KNOW it sucked, you just read somebody else's OPINION!

So, as long as you reserve judgement until you've actually seen it, then everything will be right in your world when you read the spoilers. However, as Frosty and others have said, the show will always be more interesting when you don't know what's gonna happen.

(edited by BrewGuy on 4.2.02 1354)



DrOp
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 2143 days
Last activity: 1010 days
#6 Posted on
BrewGuy said:

Yes, I generally read them, but because I just generally browse them, by the time SmackDown! actually airs, I've forgotten most of the details (unless its some major event). So, when I watch SD, it's not quite as exciting as Raw, but since I don't read every detail about the match/angle/whatever, I still enjoy it.




That is exactly where I am on spoliers as well. I skim them, but remember very little by the time Thursday evening rolls around. If I'm lucky, I'll remember who fights in the main event match.

I also occasionally avoid them to keep SD! extra exciting and fresh.



OMG. Shut Up. ALL of YOU.


...And Marking Out
Slashwrestling.com
mskj
Summer sausage








Since: 10.1.02
From: Tennessee

Since last post: 876 days
Last activity: 635 days
#7 Posted on
Last week was the first time in a long time i didn't read the Smackdown spoilers. And i agree, it makes the show lots more fun. Recently i've started avoiding many of the wrestling web sites out there, just because they seem so negative. I think that has been what helped me enjoy the shows more than anything else. Everyone has the right to, and should, complain if they don't like what they are seeing...but it got to the point that i started not enjoying the shows as much. For the most part i only stop here to read about and discuss wrestling now. I mean why do ratings even matter? If last weeks raw had gotten a 1.3 i still would have watched smackdown, and still would plan on watching tonight. (I know ratings matter to Vince and TNN and stockholders.) I am really optimistic about the product right now. This is the most excited i remember being for wrestling since late 98, early 99 (i think) when Foley and Rock were fighting over the title. And i think alot of that has to do with avoiding all the negativity out there.



Ohio State's mens basketball team is 16-3. I'm a happy man. And Michigan sucks.
xizor81
Tocino








Since: 11.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec

Since last post: 4282 days
Last activity: 3687 days
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#8 Posted on
I totally agree with all of you. While spoilers can save some time on Thursday Nights, never beats agood live RAW. I try not to jump in the "smarts" boat considering who's cool and who isn't a good worker. I just enjoy the show!

Thanks for reading me!



LeechOfTheNight
Head cheese








Since: 16.1.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 4088 days
Last activity: 3229 days
#9 Posted on
I never read spoilers. I think I use to do it once or twce when Smackdown first came on the air (which was also about the time I started checking out the internet wrestling scene), but I haven't since. I watch wrestling, for the most part, for the surprise element. If I know something going to happen, it's not such a big deal when it does. When I do read something, usually on accident, it always pisses me off during the show. For example, when Jeff Hardy won the IC title, I had already read about it the day before by mistake and it took all the shock value out of it. As far as I'm concerned, spoilers are 100% evil.



"Damn you Rock-Em Sock-Em Robots! Can't we all just get along?"
Kawshen
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Bronx, NY

Since last post: 1867 days
Last activity: 127 days
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#10 Posted on
Well, it's true that being a "smark" ruins the fun sometimes - but it does help you appreciate what some guys do in the ring.

If you weren't a "smark" - would you appreciate guys like Benoit or Angle?




Can you dig it, sucka?
LeechOfTheNight
Head cheese








Since: 16.1.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 4088 days
Last activity: 3229 days
#11 Posted on
If you weren't a "smark" - would you appreciate guys like Benoit or Angle?

Wow, there's something definately wrong with that question. that's kinda like saying we appreciate them because we go online and hear about how good they are from others. We like them because others tell us to. I know that's not what you meant, but just a thought...



"Damn you Rock-Em Sock-Em Robots! Can't we all just get along?"
xizor81
Tocino








Since: 11.1.02
From: Montreal, Quebec

Since last post: 4282 days
Last activity: 3687 days
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#12 Posted on
    Originally posted by Kawshen
    Well, it's true that being a "smark" ruins the fun sometimes - but it does help you appreciate what some guys do in the ring.

    If you weren't a "smark" - would you appreciate guys like Benoit or Angle?



I see your point, but I think I would. I was a WRESTLING fan long before I was a SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT fan. Sure I liked Hogan back in the 80s, but I always prefered technical wrestlers like Flair, Bret Hart, and now Benoit and Angle. They're still the reason I watch wrestling now. Certainly not to see Vince and Steph every week!



Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 107 days
Last activity: 107 days
#13 Posted on
I'd still like Angle because he's good on the stick, but in my mind without all you workrate Smarks around I probably wouldn't appreciate Benoit all that much. I miss him, but I just wish he'd come back with some mic skills.

-Jag "Prove ME Wrong" God, what a lame catchphrase
Qubber
Boerewors








Since: 7.1.02
From: Sheffield, UK

Since last post: 2659 days
Last activity: 1921 days
AIM:  
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    without all you workrate Smarks around I probably wouldn't appreciate Benoit all that much. I miss him, but I just wish he'd come back with some mic skills.


I agree about the mic skills, but that'd only push him over the top to the real main event level. I think Benoit has gotten over by virtue of his in ring work, and is over with the casual fan too, so I don't think we (I mean those in this thread, anti-smark types) only like Benoit because the workrate addicts tell us too. The guy does have charisma, just a different kind to the Rock. He's got the kick-ass aura about him, that 20 years ago may have produced a main event level guy if he had a moutpiece/manager type to do the talking for him.

I think you'd still appreciate guys like Angle and Benoit purely because they put on the best matches, and thats what hooked me in the first place all those years ago: the actuals sports part of the sports entertanment.

As a side bar, I'm so pleased there are like minded types regarding this trying to be a mark thing. The rampant pessimism was getting out of hand, and as others have said here, I can't stand it when certain "gurus" tell you they don't like werstler X so suddenly everybody hates wrestler X too. It's almost like everyone stopped thinking for themselves.

Qubber
Proud to be a mark



"Nobody enjoys a good time more than I do, but this business of yours is as legitimate as a three-legged donkey...which of course is illegitimate because as we all know donkeys have four legs."

Lance Storm, 21st January 2002.
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 41 min.
#15 Posted on
I get to watch the eppies about 2 weeks after they originally air, and I read the results because I just cannot wait that long.

Does it decrease the enjoyment I have? I think it actually increases it. I do remember certain bits, I just forget about the details and I get to pay a bit more attention to certain little details I might miss if I wasn't aware of otherwise..

If you say 'this match with Test sucks' I look for reasons why it would or wouldn't suck and thus usually enjoy it more (cos i also see the good points)..

Would I like some guys as much if i couldn't read any spoilers, results, insider info? I think I would.
I like to think I do not follow the crowd usually and make up my own mind. It does however have some little effect on me, like i pay extra attention to some guys because I read they have are good wrestlers/interviews etc ..




"...And I use that to fuck them some place fairly uncomfortable."
"What, like the back of a volkswagen ?"
-Mallrats
bigwavedave
Blutwurst








Since: 3.1.02
From: morro bay ca

Since last post: 4231 days
Last activity: 4231 days
#16 Posted on
I'm in the same boat as drop and brew. for me reading them can generate a " I'm really looking forward to see that" kind of vibe. Like knowing Lance and Hurricane were wrestling on Heat last Sunday. Also, I don't get Jakked/metal so I'm not even seeing alot of matches that I would actually prefer to watch over half of the Raw/SD matches and BS sessions. And sometimes segments that were taped don't make it on air, so just knowing what went on is cool.



"My parents said I could be anything, so I became an ASSHOLE!"
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My favorite is still the first time I saw Hogan... when he beat the Iron Shiek for the Strap at MSG.
- mountinman44, Favorite Hogan Moment? (2003)
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