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The W - Pro Wrestling - Every Hogan Match. Ever. (Page 2)
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Since: 29.6.05

Since last post: 4486 days
Last activity: 4462 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.70
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
      Originally posted by Ric Flair's book
      If things were done properly, my firat match with Hogan would have been hyped for months, and on Pay-Per-View. But when we finally wrestled on October 25, 1991, in Oakland, no one outside the local market was even aware that the event was taking place. The same was true with our other matches in Los Angeles, Phoenix, Boston, and Madison Square Garden. Yeah, Oakland, L.A., and Boston were sold out, and we came close with the Garden, but people had been craving this match since 1984, and it should have been the biggest thing ever.

    (The photo's caption: "Squaring off agains Hulk Hogan for the first time was the match everybody wanted but so few actually got to see.)

    (edited by DJ FrostyFreeze on 20.8.05 1002)

Dont believe everything you read. The first WWF meeting wasnt the Oakland show, it was one week beofre in an unadvertised meeting in Ohio. Meltzer has documented that several times.

Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 1263 days
Last activity: 1263 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.43
    Originally posted by dwaters
      Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
        Originally posted by Whattaburger

        What? You mean, Hulk Hogan actually paid his dues and had to do more than just pose for the crowd??? Man, and all this time I thought propelling pro wrestling into a national spotlight was easy.

        No offense and this isn't directed at you, dWaters, but I am so sick of comments like that and the IWC's disdain for Hogan...most of it is completely unwarranted.

      While I agree with everything you said, it doesn't really apply here. The guy said nothing even remotely negative about Hogan. If anything, it looks like he's a little impressed at the amount of travel Hogan did given how little he probably *had* to do.


    I thought I was paying him a compliment.

Oh, then I apologize for misunderstanding. Sorry, but it just drives me nuts. Especially when I read RAW reviews and everyone just rips into him. that is a tasty burger!

Since: 15.10.04

Since last post: 3986 days
Last activity: 3958 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.24
how do u lose to vampiro?

Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 20 hours
Last activity: 20 hours
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
    Originally posted by cammytuff
    how do u lose to vampiro?

By getting hit with a blowtorch by Kidman.

This was back during the New Blood angle, mind you. Nothing made sense. Also, it was WCW, so again, nothing made sense.

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Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 403 days
Last activity: 403 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    But Flair could and did wrestle any style, any place, against any competitor. Forget the WCW stuff you may have seen. Back when it was the old territory days, Flair would wrestle as a heel at the Omni, a face in Florida, a heel in Mid South and a tweener (depending on who he was facing)in WCCW all in the same week. Hogan couldnt do that if he had to.

I point at you and say, sir: Argumentum ad ignorantiam! Arugment from ignorance. That is a logical fallacy, or a form of it. Because Hogan never did what you, apparently, claim Flair did that means Hogan "couldn't do that if he had to". That is absolutely ridiculous. I would further that by saying that since you have never walked on the moon, you're incapable of walking on the moon, you don't know where the moon is, you're afraid of the moon, and you want to drill the moon for oil and are racist toward all moonlings. This how you are arguing, illustrated by exaggeration.

Now, I'm going to go on an anti-Flair rant now, which is not directed at Stagger so much as tunnel-vision, fingers-in-their-ears Ric Flair fans who insist he was the greatest ever and no one will ever touch him. He wasn't, and several did; and then left him in their dust.

I have seen many, many Flair matches from various points in his career, and I really find Flair to be overrated. He was very much a routine man, and while this is true of, say, Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels as well, their routines were typically offensive. Offensive routines are perfectly logical within the context of a wrestling match, because you have your favourite moves and you want to get them in so you can put your opponent away. Selling routines, on the other hand, are moronic. What are the odds that every person you face is going to throw you into the buckle at the right speed, so that you happen to go into it upside down and tumble over the buckle and then run along the apron and scramble up and get caught and thrown off? What are the odds you're going to be dazed and do a face-plant every single time you fight? It is impossible for me to watch a Flair match without him doing several things to break me out of my successful suspendsion of disbelief. Offensively, he was just useless. He had chops, which aren't really moves, he did a suplex, then it's mostly eye gouges and low blows and chopblocks and the figure-four, which Greg Valentine did better, thank you very much. He wasn't much of chain wrestler, isn't notably better at it than Hogan was in Japan, and Flair too had his good matches with great workers like Barry Windham, Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Terry Funk, Harley Race, and Sting among others. All of whom, by the way, look like they could kick the average person's ass, which Flair does not, and doesn't make up for with athletic moves. I mean, come on, did you buy this flabby old man beating Vader? I know I didn't, because it seemed to me it would have been over in five minutes. Even his promos, by Gawd, are marked by none of the low-key excellence that made Mick Foley and Jake Roberts a million times more compelling on the stick and go from dead-eyed recitation to pointless, vein-popping screams without any semblance of direction, interspersed with cartoon sound effects and the baffling ripping and throwing of suit jackets not moments before proclaimed to be obscenely expensive. Come on Ric, try some fiscal responsibility.

So Ric Flair, very good? Usually.

Great? Occasionally.

Greatest of all time? Not even close.

But hey, if you think he's the greatest, and you've sold yourself on that thought so far down the river you can't even tolerate a credible argument that differs, go right ahead. I mark it up to judgment-clogging nostalgia, something I am not guilty of because when I go back to watch Hogan matches, I don't sit around thinking it's better than anything going today. I just enjoy the warm fuzzy feeling the memories give me and, most importantly, don't close the door on anything ever being that good again, which is more or less what all Flair fans do when they utter the phrase "greatest of all time", and go around saying that the people who give him standing ovations today just never saw the four horsemen in their prime and our the wrestling equivalent of unenlightened heathens. No, fellas. Maybe we just had a different opinion, and maybe yours isn't fact.

(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 20.8.05 2232)

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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.52
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    (hundreds of words)
Golly, you sure take this personally! But....hey. Congratulations on a valiant attempt to shift the focus of this Hogan thread onto Flair.


Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 4147 days
Last activity: 3875 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.88

    Flair too had his good matches with great workers like Barry Windham, Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Terry Funk, Harley Race, and Sting among others

And he was as much responsible for those matches as his opponents were, if not more. I'm not sure many people would say that Windham, Sting or Savage were better workers than Flair was at the time of their match. I don't know how anyone can look at the matches that Flair has had over the years (especially the Steamboat matches) and complain about his style being repetitive. He did work a similar match most of the time, but he was able to have good matches with anyone and great matches with a wide range of opponents. The cage match with Harley Race wasn't like the 45 minute draw with Sting which wasn't like the "I Quit" match with Funk which wasn't like any of his three matches with Steamboat, but the common theme is that they were all great matches that Flair played a huge role in making. No he didn't have the moveset other guys do, but guys that have the moveset couldn't have half of the great matches that Flair has had.

Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 70 days
Last activity: 70 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
I showed this list of Hogan matches to a couple of friends who went to every MSG show from 84 to 87. It was amazing, as they would see a result and know instantly about that show. Take Hogan losing to Big John Studd on 9/22/84 by countout for instance. They would immediately remember that Hogan faced Studd the next month when the countout rule was waived. Of course Hogan won that match, but I was astounded by their instant recollections.

So, thanks for the link. They and I enjoyed it.

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Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

Since last post: 3821 days
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.77
Two comments:

One, growing up I always got that they pushed the idea that Hogan could bust out some technical holds IF he had too. But he had such a power advantage, why do it? I mean, go back and look at some of his old WWF offenses, invariably they'll be some neat little thing, maybe a drop toe hold, maybe some sort of counter. I just always remember the announcers pointing out that while he was a brawler, he knew other things.

Two, the World title does NOT have lineage to the NWA title, the WCW title nor any other titles. The World title currently held by Batista was created when it was handed to HHH. When Brock Lesnar became 'Smackdown exclusive' he didn't lose claim to half of his championship.

Cena's belt is the linear title.


Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.45
    Originally posted by flairforthegold13
    Two, the World title does NOT have lineage to the NWA title, the WCW title nor any other titles. The World title currently held by Batista was created when it was handed to HHH. When Brock Lesnar became 'Smackdown exclusive' he didn't lose claim to half of his championship.
I think the lineage is still the same. Brock's title was no longer "undisputed" and it became simply "The WWF/WWE Championship", as it was called before the unification.

Before the Unification, Vince McMahon specifically said that the WCW Title would be the only thing remaining of WCW, and that it would thereafter be known as the "World Title." Which, not coincidentally, is what it was called when it was given to HHH.

So, the identities of the belts never changed in name, nor in the physical essence of the belt which - despite redesigns - still is the same basic belt Flair had in the NWA.

Brock lost his claim to the Undisputed Championship when the highly contrived storyline of him going to SMACKDOWN! happened. It was probably the worst way to create two belts, because the Undisputed Champion was the champion of both shows, regardless of whether the champion had an "exclusive contract" which would have been void anyway because of his prior responsibilities as champion. Once Brock was beaten by Show, Show could then appear wherever he wanted, etc.

Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 23 days
Last activity: 1 day
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
(deleted by JustinShapiro on 22.8.05 2029)
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You know... for some reason I can stomach The Outsiders -the tags team. Just when I thought we might get that without the NWO bullshit here comes X-Pac to make sure that I continue to suffer.
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