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The W - Sports that aren't Baseball, Football, Basketball, or Hockey - Euro 2012 (Page 3)
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MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 19 hours
#41 Posted on
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by MoeGates
      Jesus Navas and Pedro were making runs today


    Yep, clearly what I said was Spain's players were standing around idly. You got me!


      "isn't working."


    I sat here for a second trying to think of a way to snidely ask why putting quotation marks around words excuses a super literal interpretation when that clearly wasn't intended, but then I realized, I didn't actually say what you put in quotation marks anyway. If you think advancing via a shootout after a goalless draw means this Spain team is just as good as the one that won the World Cup, you're entitled to your opinion. But I think most people would agree with me when I say that they aren't playing at the same level. Germany will in my mind be big favorites to win if it's them and Spain in the final based on the way the two teams have been playing. Italy/Spain would be a tossup for me.

    And besides, the argument I actually made is that Spain have been boring. Winning the whole tournament won't change that.


      Also - I do not understand why Del Bosque is not using Fernando Llorente. Spain (especially Jordi Alba) has had no trouble getting to the touch line and getting crosses in, they just have had no targets. Llorente may be too flat-footed to play tiki-taka with the guys, but just park him up on the shoulder of the last defender and let him go after crosses. At the very least he'll draw defenders and open space.


    But wait, I thought what Spain has been doing has been "working." Why would they do anything different?

    (edited by TheBucsFan on 27.6.12 2238)


I don't take issue with you, I take issue with McManaman.



www.allcitynewyork.com
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 50 days
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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.14
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    I'm disappointed Portugal lost because Spain have been boring me to death in this tournament. Steve McManaman put it well: Spain's style works great for Barcelona, because Barcelona has Messi to go on these brilliant runs with or without the ball to wreak havoc in the middle of the defense. Spain don't seem to have that person, and so they just end up passing the ball all over the park with no real objective other than passing the ball all over the park.


Isn't that person David Villa, who is hurt? He's been out a while, but I don't think Spain would make a wholesale tactical change in his absence. Besides, Iniesta had a great chance to score near the end of extra time. I just thought Spain took too long to get going (possibly owing to having half the rest since their last match that Portugal did.)



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 44 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.27
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    And besides, the argument I actually made is that Spain have been boring. Winning the whole tournament won't change that.
I know this is totally a personal taste thing, but I disagree with the idea Spain are boring. They come up against a lot of teams that pack ten men behind the ball and hope to survive and grab one on the counter attack so the opposition usually deserves more of the blame. They haven't been at their best in this tournament but they've still scored nine goals and created as many chances as any team other than Germany. Even when they're not carving out chance after chance I think their style of play is awesome to watch. Their players are playing lovely one touch passing regardless of where they are on the pitch, are in perpetual motion, always know exactly where they and their teammates are meant to be and when they don't have the ball they work harder to close down and win the ball back than any other team.

Like I say, completely a case of YMMV, but I could watch them play all day.

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Personally, with the benefit of hindsight, I think Ronaldo should have stepped up as soon as Xabi Alonso missed that first one.
This, plus the Nani/Alves thing got me thinking. When I played (at a level which was less than great, I grant you) we had two games go to pens and on both occasions both teams had to give a list of five players, in order, who'd be taking the penalties. Is this no longer the case? Was it never the case and we just had refs that didn't really know the rules? I had a quick squizz at the rules for shootouts and didn't see anything about having to select your five guys ahead of time but if anyone could confirm one way or t'other I'd appreciate it.

    Originally posted by MoeGates
    Also - I do not understand why Del Bosque is not using Fernando Llorente.
As someone who had him in his fantasy team, I whole-heartedly agree. Things is, I think he actually would fit in OK with the whole passing game because he's no slouch on the ground and his movement's really good. I feel sorry for Jordi Alba every time he gets to the bye line and looks up to see nobody over 5ft 8 to aim for.

    Originally posted by JJD
    Isn't that person David Villa, who is hurt? He's been out a while, but I don't think Spain would make a wholesale tactical change in his absence.
They totally miss Villa, but the more I think about it the more convinced I am that Puyol is the bigger loss. They've had to move Sergio Ramos to CB where he ain't so hot and bring Arebloa in at RB. Both France and Portugal had so little respect for Arbeloa's attacking threat they basically just left him to do whatever he wanted and concentrated on closing down the centre and left side of the pitch.

    Originally posted by JJD
    I just thought Spain took too long to get going (possibly owing to having half the rest since their last match that Portugal did.)
I think they were totally taken by surprise by Portugal's tactics as well. They probably expected Portugal to sit deeper and hit them on the break with Ronaldo and Nani, but instead Portugal were pressing them high all over the pitch. There was a moment near the end of the game where Spain had possession in their own half trying to pass it out after a goal kick and Portugal brought EIGHT guys into the Spanish half to close them down (this passage ended with Alves clattering into the back of a perfectly innocent Spaniard, but still). They used Spain's defensive gameplan against them and Spain looked lost for 90 minutes trying to find a way to counter it.




Edit: spelling fail.

(edited by dMr on 28.6.12 0954)
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30


    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    I am still agog that down 3-2 in the bottom of the 4th frame of the shootout Portugal didn't turn to Ronaldo. I understand the whole "best player = game closer" math in theory, but I was sure he would go if only to make sure if there was a miss and Spain could close it out he wouldn't be sitting there having not had a chance.


Watching this with my son and he was aghast that Ronaldo didn't take the 4th shot knowing that if missed Spain could close out without him having a chance. Dummy.







Captain Ferret
Chipolata








Since: 14.9.02
From: Manchester

Since last post: 514 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#45 Posted on
I think (though I'm not 100%) that they have to go in the same order as the list submitted to the ref.

Llorente is properly knackered after last season (Bilbao's coach, Marcelo Bielsa, plays a super pressing, high tempo game, and they had two cups runs). I suspect he might have been left out if David Villa was fit, Fernando Torres is probably a bit narked with all this, mind.
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.14
Wow. Balotelli. Italia.

Wow.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 19 hours
#47 Posted on
You know, as much as I love Spain and Italy, I think I might skip the first 120 scoreless minutes of the final and just watch the shootout.



www.allcitynewyork.com
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 19 hours
#48 Posted on
Whoa - you know what makes Pirlo's Paneka even more awesome? The fact that he had the nerve to try it after this against Barca in 2010:



(edited by CRZ on 29.6.12 0057)


www.allcitynewyork.com
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30


    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    Wow. Balotelli. Italia.

    Wow.


My family is Italian-American. Our living room exploded on both goals yesterday. Though there was some trepidation after the penalty shot made it 2-1. We will proudly be sporting the blue on Sunday!







dunkndollaz
Banger








Since: 3.1.02
From: Northern NJ

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.88
    Originally posted by pieman
      Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Wow. Balotelli. Italia.

      Wow.


    My family is Italian-American. Our living room exploded on both goals yesterday. Though there was some trepidation after the penalty shot made it 2-1. We will proudly be sporting the blue on Sunday!

and I will be at my right off the boat Italian in-laws house on Sunday for the game and a huge spread. I guarantee you will hear us in Maine when Italy wins.

Forza Azzuri !!!



I think my kids are trying to kill me

Captain Ferret
Chipolata








Since: 14.9.02
From: Manchester

Since last post: 514 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#51 Posted on
So, erm, Spain are pretty good then, yes?
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 44 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.27
    Originally posted by Captain Ferret
    So, erm, Spain are pretty good then, yes?
Since the end of normal time against Portugal they've been absolutely unplayable. Over the last few years they've been the best international side I've ever seen and it's not even close. Their record in competitive games since 08 has been insane. Awesome team. Just awesome.
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 19 hours
#53 Posted on
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    They need to make a movie of this Spanish squad, if only because while watching the game, my friends were convinced Val Kilmer was playing Center Half and Jason Bateman scored two goals.


Wait a minute, how could I forget the cameo by Flea at the end of the final!



www.allcitynewyork.com
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 50 days
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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.14
    Originally posted by dMr
    Their record in competitive games since 08 has been insane.


I thought ESPN said they are 42-3-4 in their last 49 competitive matches. (Or 42-4-3 the Euro way.) Figuring the best I can (using the always dangerous Wikipedia...)

Euro 2008 qualifying - 12 matches, 9 wins, 1 loss, 2 draws
Euro 2008 - 6 matches, 6 wins
2010 World Cup qualifying - 10 matches, 10 wins
2010 World Cup - 7 matches, 6 wins, 1 loss
Euro 2012 qualifying - 8 matches, 8 wins
Euro 2012 - 6 matches, 5 wins, 1 draw

So I get 49 matches with 44 wins, 2 losses, and 3 draws. And I didn't include the 2009 Confederations Cup, where they went 3-0 in the group stage and then lost to the USA (!!) in the semi-finals.




Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 44 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.27
And apparently they haven't conceded a goal in the knockout stages of a major tournament since zidane scored against them in 2006, which for a team that spends most of their life attacking and has so many sub six footers you'd think they'd be easily attacked at set pieces is just ridiculous.

Edit: failing miserably to get used to new phone.

Double edit: And the only team other than Italy to score against them in a competitive game in the last couple years is.....Scotland. Fuck yeah. World Cup's all ours in 2014.

(edited by dMr on 2.7.12 0030)

(edited by dMr on 2.7.12 0034)
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 50 days
Last activity: 7 hours
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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.14
    Originally posted by dMr
    apparently they haven't conceded a goal in the knockout stages of a major tournament since zidane scored against them in 2006


So is the Confederations Cup a "major" tournament? I realize that it is essentially a dry run for the hosts of the following World Cup - the 2013 Confed Cup is in Brazil - but it has a pretty elite field.

- Brazil (the host)
- Spain (2010 World Cup champs)
- Japan (2011 Asian Cup champs)
- Mexico (2011 Gold Cup champs)
- Uruguay (2011 Copa America champs)
- Tahiti (2012 OFC Nations Cup champs) (Note: OK, these guys don't help, but if it had been New Zealand...)
- Italy (Euro 2012 runner-up, due to Spain winning Euro and World Cup)
- uncrowned 2013 African Cup of Nations winner

I mean, that's six really good teams, plus the ACN winner should be good, and Tahiti.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
MoeGates
Andouille








Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 19 hours
#57 Posted on
Confederations Cup is about a half-major tournament. It's 5 games (if you get to the finals), and considering Euro Championship is 6 games, I think it's comparable. But teams have declined to play it before.

Since Confederations Cup is in the run-up to the World Cup, with all the qualifiers happening, I can see how another five games can make some coaches (and also club coaches) wary. Instead of the round-robin/knockout, I'd do it similar to the club world cup - something like Oceania, Asia, CONCACAF, and CAF playing a knockout, with the winners facing CONMEBOL and UEFA champions, and winners of that facing hosts and World Cup Winner (with winners of that in the final). That way the big countries are only playing 2 or 3 games.



www.allcitynewyork.com
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 44 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.27
It's not the number of games or the quality of teams so much as it's just not a tournament many people care about. Certainly Europeans would view it as a very distant third to the World Cup and the Euros. Most people I know wouldn't even be able to tell you who the current Confederations Cup holders are or when the next tournament is.

TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 72 days
Last activity: 72 days
#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.61
I don't remember ever talking about the Confederations Cup once before the US beat Spain in it.

The teams in the tournament were playing their first-choice lineups, maybe with a couple of omissions here and there I don't remember. But at the very least, Spain had most of their big guns out there in the US victory, so the win didn't mean nothing. But if "major tournament" is taken to mean one that people actually care about who wins, I don't think the Confederations Cup can be counted. It's too bad nobody cares about it though, I like the format and short time frame of the tournament. I was disappointed when the U.S. lost in the Gold Cup mainly because it meant they couldn't play in the Confederations Cup in Brazil.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 2.7.12 0843)
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