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18.12.14 0742
The W - Baseball - ESPN's "Trial of Pete Rose"
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Simba
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Since: 7.8.02
From: Boston, MA

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.20
Have you seen the ads for this debacle?

More info, from today's Boston Globe:

Meanwhile, ESPN announced yesterday that Catherine Crier, the youngest state judge ever elected in Texas and host of ''Catherine Crier Live'' on Court TV, will be the judge. WWZN (1510 AM) talk-show host Eddie Andelman will be the jury foreman. Hall of Famer Jim Palmer (prosecution) is a confirmed witness. ESPN ''subpoenas'' are out for former Red Sox pitcher Bill Lee and present team consultant and SABR-metrician Bill James as defense witnesses, but neither is confirmed. The Globe's Dan Shaughnessy will be a witness for the prosecution.

''This is a topic we've discussed on `Sports Reporters,' `Around the Horn,' `PTI,' ESPN Radio, and through audience polls,'' said Walsh. ''When a freelance producer came to us with this idea, we liked it.''

ESPN pulled the show together in two months.

''It could be considered a pilot,'' said Walsh, ''But it's probably going to be a one-of-a-kind.''

ESPN's Bob Ley will host the program with CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.



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tomvejada
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Since: 2.1.02

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#2 Posted on
I wonder which is worse this, or Beg, Borrow, and Deal 2.



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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
It's interesting that Alan Dershowitz is the prosecutor when he's never prosecuted a case in his life. (Source: Dershowitz, on ESPN radio last night on my way to work)



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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Still more relevant than The Trial of Lee Harvey Oswald.



""I haven't seen a starting nine like that since the '62 Mets"
- Dennis Miller on the Democratic Presidential Candidates
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#5 Posted on
IF they are going to waste time with something like this, wouldn't it make sense to broadcast it during the 3 day All Star break, when fans are craving anything, instead of the first day of games after the break?
Andelman as jury foreman: Well, we know the food budget will be spent at hot dog stands and at Chinese restaurants.



Still waiting patiently for the return of Paul Lind to network television.
pieman
As young as
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Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21


I wonder why we're all so anxious to jump on anything that might be different than the regular drivel we are fed on a daily basis. This show is being jumped on like every wrestling spoiler report. Why can't we wait and see how it plays on television before we get all pissy about what a waste of time this is?

I, for one, thought it was a pretty novel idea and will wait to spew venom upon it until after I view it.



Gabba Gabba Hey!
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#7 Posted on

    Originally posted by pieman
    I wonder why we're all so anxious to jump on anything that might be different than the regular drivel we are fed on a daily basis. This show is being jumped on like every wrestling spoiler report. Why can't we wait and see how it plays on television before we get all pissy about what a waste of time this is?

    I, for one, thought it was a pretty novel idea and will wait to spew venom upon it until after I view it.






In theory, I have no problem with the idea. My problem is I despise Dershowitz, got sick of Cochrane long ago, and can only imagine the jury deliberations involving Andelman centering around what is the best type of hot dog ever invented.



Still waiting patiently for the return of Paul Lind to network television.
calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
umm umm I think I know a litte about jury deliberations.


Andelman is a joke. It will be funny to hear how he will butcher Dershowitz name.
Ffej
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

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#9 Posted on
I thought the show was pretty good. Definitely interesting at the very least. I didn't learn anything new, but I thought it was funny the jury was convinced he bet on baseball and still should be in the hall of fame.

And Bill "Spaceman" Lee needs some type of show on ESPN now.
Spaceman=Ratings.



WIENER OF THE DAY! July 6, 2002!

If I lived back in the wild west days, instead of carrying a six-gun in my holster, I'd carry a soldering iron. That way, if some smart-aleck cowboy said something like "Hey, look. He's carrying a soldering iron!" and started laughing, and everybody else started laughing, I could just say, "That's right, it's a soldering iron. The soldering iron of justice." Then everybody would get real quiet and ashamed, because they had made fun of the soldering iron of justice, and I could probably hit them up for a free drink.
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21


All true, Ffej. Bill Lee was the most entertaining portion of the show.

As for the verdict, I am always amazed by folks that say that "yeah, he bet on baseball, but it's been long enough."

"Well, gee, yeah, he did kill that guy, but it's been a little while and even though he's not sorry about killing the dude, let's let him out because it's been long enough."

Rule #1 - don't bet on baseball. He bet on baseball. Case closed.



Gabba Gabba Hey!
Ffej
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

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#11 Posted on
    Originally posted by pieman
    All true, Ffej. Bill Lee was the most entertaining portion of the show.

    As for the verdict, I am always amazed by folks that say that "yeah, he bet on baseball, but it's been long enough."

    "Well, gee, yeah, he did kill that guy, but it's been a little while and even though he's not sorry about killing the dude, let's let him out because it's been long enough."

    Rule #1 - don't bet on baseball. He bet on baseball. Case closed.



I personally think Pete Rose should be Hall of the Fame because in my opinion the punishment doesn't fit the crime. But baseball's rules are baseball rules. Baseball is a private instituion that is allowed to set those rules. Based on baseball's rules he should not be in the Hall of Fame.

All that said- I personally think someone like Darryl Strawberry has done more hurt the game than Pete Rose ever has. One wonders if Pete Rose had been offered gambling addiction treatment by MLB back in 1989 if we would still be talking about it today. Baseball is willing to give someone like Strawberry many many chances but with Rose it was one strike and done.

But like pieman said the rules of baseball are clear, and he broke the rules- and as long MLB has the rule he does not belong in the Hall of Fame.

(edited by Ffej on 18.7.03 0834)


WIENER OF THE DAY! July 6, 2002!

If I lived back in the wild west days, instead of carrying a six-gun in my holster, I'd carry a soldering iron. That way, if some smart-aleck cowboy said something like "Hey, look. He's carrying a soldering iron!" and started laughing, and everybody else started laughing, I could just say, "That's right, it's a soldering iron. The soldering iron of justice." Then everybody would get real quiet and ashamed, because they had made fun of the soldering iron of justice, and I could probably hit them up for a free drink.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I think the fact that Dershowitz had never prosecuted a case before hurt his ability to get things done. If they ponied up enough cash they could've gotten a baseball fan with some prosecutorial experience: Rudy Guiliani. THAT would have been fascinating.



"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
- Ben Franklin, 1759
Doc_whiskey
Frankfurter








Since: 6.8.02
From: St. Louis

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#13 Posted on
Did Cochrane use his famed Chewbacca defense?



So I pranked him...to death.....with a tire iron!
Ffej
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

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Y!:
#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by Doc_whiskey
    Did Cochrane use his famed Chewbacca defense?


Sadly no. He certainly should have though- instead of an 8-4 vote in their favor it would have been a clean 12-0 win for the defense.



WIENER OF THE DAY! July 6, 2002!

If I lived back in the wild west days, instead of carrying a six-gun in my holster, I'd carry a soldering iron. That way, if some smart-aleck cowboy said something like "Hey, look. He's carrying a soldering iron!" and started laughing, and everybody else started laughing, I could just say, "That's right, it's a soldering iron. The soldering iron of justice." Then everybody would get real quiet and ashamed, because they had made fun of the soldering iron of justice, and I could probably hit them up for a free drink.
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21



    Originally posted by Ffej
    I personally think Pete Rose should be Hall of the Fame because in my opinion the punishment doesn't fit the crime


This is where I see most of illogical thinking. Betting on baseball pulls at the very heart of the game. If you cannot trust that all competitors are trying their best to win, the game is lost. Rose's supporters will say he didn't bet AGAINST his team, but that's not the point. Say he bet on his team today and had to push pitchers harder in today's game because he bet on it. He's trying much harder to win today without regard to the health of his pitching staff or the long-term effect on the season as a whole. His focus is to win his bet today, tomorrow's game be damned. That, my friends, cannot be tolerated.


pieman - can you tell this strikes a chord with me?

(edited by CRZ on 18.7.03 1307)


Gabba Gabba Hey!
RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

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#16 Posted on
pieman: His focus is to win his bet today, tomorrow's game be damned. That, my friends, cannot be tolerated.

You hit the nail on the head, Pieman

I thought the show was good entertainment and served its purpose (a backhanded way to PROVE that fan support is on Petes side as long as everyone hears the evidence) but the final verdict was WAY off base, with the general consensus being that if Pete would just "admit" his wrongdoing, life would be grand. That will happen when hell freezes over. I think the jury, mock trial or not, was more concerned with the event vs. the facts - that seems to happen a lot when Cochran is involved :-)

Case in point when your star witness is that idiot Spaceman Lee and someone like him can convince the general public that Pete is a rotten son of a bitch, but a Baseball Manager gambling on baseball isnt the "worst than can happen", something is wrong. Dershowitz (if the whole thing wasnt done as a publicity stunt for Pete / baseballs idiotic feel good trip they are on ) would have tore the Spaceman a new one, given his inconsistencies and the general notion that clowns have no place in a real court of law (cept the lawyers, of course).

Re: Hank Aaron he must be senile. Thats just sad.

FLEA



Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high...

FLEA - IWC 100!
ShotGunShep
Frankfurter








Since: 20.2.03

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#17 Posted on
How has Daryll Strawberry hurt the game more than Pete Rose? Daryll Strawberry hurt himself and his fans more than anything, but he didn't hurt the integrity of the game.

I think Dershowitz(or however you spell his name) was right when he said...shoeless joe jackson hurt the integrity of the game. People could doubt whether an important play in a game was doctored or not. But that trust was earned back. People never doubted that Buckner TRIED to miss that ground ball. They trust the game, and when people bet on the game, they ruin the integrity of America's pasttime.

(edited by kgriffey79 on 18.7.03 1314)
Stefonics
Morcilla








Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
It is my belief that Strawberry's actions were infinitely more damaging to the image of baseball than anything that Pete Rose did. Granted, neither man was right in their actions. But at the same time, both are role models for the youth of America (to a certain extent) whether they want to be or not. With fame comes idolization and the respect of millions of children across the country. Strawberry's use of drugs as well as his numerous assaults on his wife are qualities that I frown upon more than those of a compulsive gambler. Drugs and gambling are both serious addictions, and I guess it just comes down to a matter of how much weight one puts behind the downside of drug use.
I am a lifelong Met fan and because I grew up in the 80's, I grew up with Strawberry smashing low-inside fastball after low-inside fastball to make the apple rise from the hat. When I found out about his drug use, I was soured on Strawberry. When I found out about his wife-beating tendency, I grew to despise the man.
Rose's mistakes were discovered about the same time as Strawberry's. But Rose did not sour me on the image of the professional athlete. In my mind at the time, gambling was something that the majority of older people did. It wasn't as big of a deal and I remember asking myself over and over again why Rose was banned for life from baseball when people like Strawberry, Steve Howe, and Louis Polonia were given numerous second chances.
As for Rose going into the Hall, it should undoubtedly happen. As was said during the "trial", he would not be entering the Hall as a manager, but as a player. His records and enthusiasm for the game speak for themselves. If it was the "Hall of Character", I wouldn't vote Rose in. Ruth wouldn't be there either. Same thing for Cobb. But the Hall of Fame has never been about those athletes who excel both in character and on the playing field.
Comparing Rose to Strawberry isn't very fair or valid because one clearly has Hall of Fame numbers while the other had two, at most three, Hall of Fame seasons.
A better comparison would be between Rose and Kirby Puckett. Both have very similar career highs in all of the major categories. The only difference is that the Hall managed to elect a woman-abusing, adulterous cyclops to be honored while they refuse to lift the ban on a man who might or might not have gambled on baseball games where he was managing.



"Behind that twinkle in your eye, I can see the bitch in you."
- 50
Elbarto997
Cotto








Since: 16.7.03
From: Wexford,Pa

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#19 Posted on
He should'nt be inducted into the MLB Hall of Fame. He should be inducted into the NHL HALL OF FAME!!!!!!!!!!Since he bet w/ Canadians and I heard he was a great goalie. Naw just kidding.



U flush one down it swirls around, 999 springs to flush down -Homer Simpson
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