It's really good. They really went with some odd questions at him, like asking him what the true story behind letting Brian Pillman go. I didn't know this story, but it seems that the idea was for him to spend some time in ECW and WWE and ultimately come back to WCW. This was a thought out planned 'invasion'. Too bad he died, I'd love to have seen that all work out that way.
He was also rather blunt in saying that all the guys who jumped ship to the WWE thinking they'd get better spots higher up on the card, were all wrong. Even Chris Jericho. He called Jericho's Undisputed World Champion run a 'Cup of Coffee.' which is pretty damn funny, and sadly true.
Download the show and give it a listen, it was really enjoyable.
I guess it is impossible to say where they would have ended up had they stayed at WCW, but I think it is pretty much undeniable that Guerrero, Benoit, and Jericho ended up higher up on the card at WWE than they ever were at WCW. Bischoff can call Jericho's title run a "cup of coffee" if he likes (I wouldn't necessarily disagree), but he wasn't even smelling the coffee at WCW.
The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
Originally posted by CerebusHe was also rather blunt in saying that all the guys who jumped ship to the WWE thinking they'd get better spots higher up on the card, were all wrong.
Well. This is true for Malenko, Saturn, Raven, and, uh. Not even Debra or Ray Traylor. Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Sean Waltman -- not even close. Even Big Show probably ended up about even despite having a mostly useless first three years in the WWF.
I would argue that WWF's lower card was a more high-profile gig than being on WCW's lower card, if one follows the Jeff Jarrett logic of going from a not-over WWF midcarder to a not-over WCW main eventer.
Originally posted by ges7184I guess it is impossible to say where they would have ended up had they stayed at WCW, but I think it is pretty much undeniable that Guerrero, Benoit, and Jericho ended up higher up on the card at WWE than they ever were at WCW. Bischoff can call Jericho's title run a "cup of coffee" if he likes (I wouldn't necessarily disagree), but he wasn't even smelling the coffee at WCW.
To be honest, he doesn't say "all the guys who jumped", he says that most of the guys that jumped ended up in the same spot, which I think is true. He also says that it's hard to tell exactly how good someone is in one company compared to another because it's subjective.
His example of Jericho is a good one. He can say he "unified the titles" all he wants, but when the WWE decided "well we tried it and it didn't work" he was back in the midcard with everyone complaining about the same glass ceiling they were complaining about when he was in WCW.
Eh, even when Jericho was in the "mid-card" he was still gettng spot main-events, lengthy segments on the shows and having his angles pushed and promoted heavily.
His feud with Michaels was great, as well as the lengthy deal with Christian and Trish. His Highlight Reel also served as a plot device to push feuds and angles up and down the show.
The "Jericho was languishing under the glass ceiling" is one of the dumber talking points in the IWC. Basically, it's a hold-over from the days when HHH hatred was all the rage. Being under the glass ceiling seemingly means you weren't pushed over Hunter.
"To be honest, he doesn't say "all the guys who jumped", he says that most of the guys that jumped ended up in the same spot, which I think is true."
Justin mentioned several names that were in better spots and only three that he didn't think were. Who is this most you speak of? This is especially true if you do go with the idea that being a upper mid-carder in the WWF was better than being a main-eventer in a dying WCW. If you want to talk about post-sale, where guys ended up, Rey and Booker and Finlay and Chavo all got over and did well.
Saying that Jericho was trapped in the same spot in both WCW and WWE is ridiculous. In WCW, Jericho was lumbered with putting over talentless hasbeens/never-we'res like Konnan and Bobby Duncum Jr. (RIP). He had the one program that brought him even anywhere near the main event - his one-sided feud with Goldberg - nixed alost straight away. And he spent the last few months of his time there feuding with Saturn over who had to wear a dress.
In WWE, regardless of titles, he was treated like a star. He feuded with The Rock, with Austin, with HHH, with Angle, with Undertaker, with Benoit, with Michaels, with Guerrero. Literally every big WWE name of the past seven years has crossed metaphorical swords with him, and in most cases has lost to him. He means something in WWE. In WCW, he was just another guy being fucked about with on the undercard, consigned to the odd TV title reign whilst Nash and friends hogged both the limelight and the gold.
To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
He's also thinks Rey would be better off without the mask, which is pretty ridiculous. Rey's a goofy looking dude. Nobody would take him seriously without the mask. And that's not even taking into account merchandising.
Actually I remember the Jericho/Goldberg WCW "feud" as being entirely Jericho's idea, where he would have kept piling up and bragging about phantom wins until finally Goldberg would notice, and dispatch him at a future PPV. Only 'berg apparently didn't think people would believe Jericho could have a chance against him in the ring, so he had the program quashed. Jericho was fine with losing, he just wanted to do some main-event business. But WCW wouldn't even give him that.
In WWE, people can argue that maybe turning the HHH/Jericho feud into a HHH/Steph (featuring Y2J Chris Jericho) feud wasn't the best idea for maintaining Jericho's main-event credibility (kayfabe-wise). Although if you're in a top spot, with influence on the booking - you can understand that one wouldn't want a better entertainer shown to be your physical equal?
As for some of the others mentioned, Rey no question has done better with WWE. Finlay is hard to compare due to the injury layoff, and Chavo I think has been booked similarly to WCW, only circumstances pushed him higher than he might have been if Eddie was still around (see: Kerwin White)
Booker is the one who came over for the InVasion, and did better with WWE. But remember how he was introduced - jobbing to Rock, getting kicked all around a supermarket by Stone Cold.. I'd say that any subsequent pushes Booker got from WWE were well-earned, and on his own merit.