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The W - Movies & TV - Episode III thoughts [SPOILERS] (Page 5)
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EddieBurkett
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#81 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.87
    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    You may have a point, but in the Empire they also destroy entire planets just to prove a point to a suspected spy.


From this defense of the Empire (weeklystandard.com):

    Originally posted by weekly standard
    The destruction of Alderaan is often cited as ipso facto proof of the Empire's "evilness" because it seems like mass murder--planeticide, even. As Tarkin prepares to fire the Death Star, Princess Leia implores him to spare the planet, saying, "Alderaan is peaceful. We have no weapons." Her plea is important, if true.

    But the audience has no reason to believe that Leia is telling the truth. In Episode IV, every bit of information she gives the Empire is willfully untrue. In the opening, she tells Darth Vader that she is on a diplomatic mission of mercy, when in fact she is on a spy mission, trying to deliver schematics of the Death Star to the Rebel Alliance. When asked where the Alliance is headquartered, she lies again.

    Leia's lies are perfectly defensible--she thinks she's serving the greater good--but they make her wholly unreliable on the question of whether or not Alderaan really is peaceful and defenseless. If anything, since Leia is a high-ranking member of the rebellion and the princess of Alderaan, it would be reasonable to suspect that Alderaan is a front for Rebel activity or at least home to many more spies and insurgents like Leia.


    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    for some reason, Yoda doesn't appear to be working on the side at Burger King in order to help finance the Jedi: 'Enter no, Fear Restroom Flooded'.


Yeah, but Vader is (sithsense.com). What does that say about the Empire?

(edited by EddieBurkett on 24.5.05 1844)

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#82 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.00
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    In Episode I there were issues where the Council commented that Anakin was too old to begin the training at the age of 8. Obi Wan (assuming he was watching Luke through his youth) had to know that he was strong in the force well before Ep IV. Why didn't he try to teach him before that?


The comic adaptation touches on this point. In fact, Obi Wan originally suggests the idea of himself and Yoda each taking one of the children to train, but Yoda shoots it down, saying that obviously the Jedi's training methods were lackluster since even he was so easily schooled by the Sith. He plans to let the children live normal lives, until they come of age, at which point they would be ready to truly train. Not sure if I agree on that point, but Yoda's POV in the book makes it seem as if he considers his hundreds of years of training Jedi to be like the Jedi who trained him originally to be a mistake, as the Sith evolved into a new kind of threat, while the Jedi stagnated.

Also, on the Amidala-pregnancy people have commented on, this is another of Yoda's plots. He tells the medics to make her body appear as if it were still pregnant, so it would seem like she died before giving birth. Not sure why they dropped this from the movie, but the shot of her funeral procession does have her looking pregnant, so maybe they figured the visual was enough.
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#83 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.68
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    The more I think about that ending, the more I want to see an episode 3.5 or so. Just to connect some of these loose dots that are hanging:

    a) R2 couldn't have known where Obi Wan lived on Tatooine because Obi wasn't living there the last he heard from him, right? That means that Obi must have kept in contact with Bail, and Leia told him where to go when giving him the message, right?



Artoo doesn't need to know to look for Obi-Wan on Tattooine because Leia told him. Leia knows he's on Tattooine because Bail must have told her, and Bail knows because Obi-Wan told him in Episode III.

    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    b) Anakin must have told Obi about most of what happened on Tatooine, as Obi wasn't there for episode II. Obi doesn't meet the Lars' until he shows up with Luke. I agree that it was dumb for the Lars to not flat out adopt Luke, but given that they would have to choose between giving him the name of a semi-despot, or naming him Luke Lars, I can't say they chose wrong.



Yoda's the one who suggests that Luke be raised by the Larses, so Anakin wouldn't have needed to tell Obi-Wan about them. Anakin might have told Yoda about them, or Yoda may have simply sensed that Anakin has a stepbrother; he sensed Anakin's ordeal with the Sand People, after all.

Whether Luke became a Lars or a Skywalker was irrelevant. Vader and Palpatine didn't know he was alive, and Tattooine's too remote for anyone to be taking censuses or anything. Luke's community might realize he's Anakin's son, but very few people knew Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. Very few people see Darth Vader before he puts on the helmet, and the ones who aren't killed are either concealing his identity or have no interest in revealing it.

    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    c) In Episode I there were issues where the Council commented that Anakin was too old to begin the training at the age of 8. Obi Wan (assuming he was watching Luke through his youth) had to know that he was strong in the force well before Ep IV. Why didn't he try to teach him before that? (Maybe he did and the Lars' blocked, which could explain/relate to their distrust of him in Ep IV?)


I think Episode IV makes it very clear that Obi-Wan and Owen disagree on what's best for Luke. Owen clearly thinks Luke will become another Vader if he leaves the farm or learns about the Force. Obi-Wan wants him to become a Jedi and defeat the Sith, but ultimately he's not Luke's guardian and can't influence Luke much if Owen won't allow it. Owen wouldn't even let Luke have a lightsaber, let alone train in the ways of the Force.

I kinda wonder why Obi-Wan didn't eliminate the middleman and raise Luke from birth, but maybe he wanted to keep his distance in case the Sith sensed him.

    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    d) I could see Chewbacca noting that Obi Wan was a jedi and asking him offscreen in Ep IV if he knew some little green guy named Yoda or something, and Obi Wan commenting that he went into exile and hadn't heard from him since. That would be about the end of it.



When the good guys are on the Death Star in Episode IV, Chewie barks something and Han's reaction suggests that it has to do with Obi-Wan being a creepy old dude. Unlike Han, Chewie's seen the Force and the Jedi in action, so he'd believe in what Ben's talking about. But that doesn't necessarily mean Chewie thinks he's all there, or that he'd know anything about his long-lost comrade.

    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    e) Obi Wan and Luke are lucky that Vader never decided to go back and visit his mother's grave.



I think Padme's death sent him over the edge and led him to sever his emotional ties to cauterize the pain. He'd be telling himself that dwelling on dead loved ones would be pointless.

Even if Vader did drop by the Lars farm, I'm not sure he'd recognize Luke for who he is. Vader was in Luke's vicinity several times in Episodes IV and V and refuses to consider the truth until Palpatine reveals it.

    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    f) I don't know where I picked this up but there seems to be a theory that Qui Gon posthumously communicated with Vader and taught him how to join with the Force. I don't know if I put alot of stock in that, but it is an interesting theory to explain the end of RotJ.


My take on the ghost business is that Yoda and Obi-Wan vanish when they die because they already know how the trick is done. Qui-Gon and Anakin leave behind corpses because they don't know the trick until after they're dead. Qui-Gon doesn't say or do anything right away because it's a new skill and he's still working out the technique. By the time Anakin dies and joins his mentors in the Force, they know how it's done so well that it's easy for Anakin to learn in a matter of hours.
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#84 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.03
http://www.tonight.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2532212

Looks like Hayden Christensen is having second thoughts about the whole acting thing.

And you know...after watching Episode 3...if he does quit, I won't be too sad about it.




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#85 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.53

      Originally posted by EddieBurkett
      e) Obi Wan and Luke are lucky that Vader never decided to go back and visit his mother's grave.



    I think Padme's death sent him over the edge and led him to sever his emotional ties to cauterize the pain. He'd be telling himself that dwelling on dead loved ones would be pointless.

    Even if Vader did drop by the Lars farm, I'm not sure he'd recognize Luke for who he is. Vader was in Luke's vicinity several times in Episodes IV and V and refuses to consider the truth until Palpatine reveals it.




I think Vader also dedicated his life to serving his master and his wishes. Whatever personal feelings Vader might have about anything (regardless how big) would be ignored.




      Originally posted by EddieBurkett
      f) I don't know where I picked this up but there seems to be a theory that Qui Gon posthumously communicated with Vader and taught him how to join with the Force. I don't know if I put alot of stock in that, but it is an interesting theory to explain the end of RotJ.


    My take on the ghost business is that Yoda and Obi-Wan vanish when they die because they already know how the trick is done. Qui-Gon and Anakin leave behind corpses because they don't know the trick until after they're dead. Qui-Gon doesn't say or do anything right away because it's a new skill and he's still working out the technique. By the time Anakin dies and joins his mentors in the Force, they know how it's done so well that it's easy for Anakin to learn in a matter of hours.


I remember Vader kicking at the rags Obi-Wan left behind when he vanished. He seemed to act like "WTF?", and being power hungry probably wanted to know more about this new power that Obi-Wan had learned. Vader was the most powerful Jedi ever, plus he was trained somewhat in the power of the good side (sorry, light side?) of the force, so he should be capable of learning it between the time of Ep4 and Ep6 even if he thought it just gave him a slim chance at being immortal.


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#86 Posted on
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    And, shouldn't Yoda have been given one of the twins to train? Obi-Wan's record as a trainer was Vader, not exactly a good track record.


Yeah, but wasn't Count Dooku Yoda's padawan? So even Yoda was falable in his training.
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#87 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by zolstice
      Originally posted by redsoxnation
      And, shouldn't Yoda have been given one of the twins to train? Obi-Wan's record as a trainer was Vader, not exactly a good track record.


    Yeah, but wasn't Count Dooku Yoda's padawan? So even Yoda was falable in his training.


Post #79 in this very thread.

http://the-w.com/thread.php/id=25907&page=3#295697




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#88 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.48
In-freaking-credible. I ***LOVED*** the movie. I mean, it's not perfect, but certainly got my blood pumping.

I left with a few questions after the movie...like why there are so many colours of lightsaber, what the difference are in thenm, or if it's just like the paint on a car, no major thing.

Speaking of that...I would have loved to seen TWO lightsabre colours during the final fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.

I liked the executions, myself: I didn't expect Dooku to die so soon, but there were some sweet death shots there, especially the one to Grevious and Mace Windu.

I attended an afternoon showing, and there were no less than ten people at the theatre. It still got standing applause at the end from almost everyone.

One last thing: my best friend, who attended with me, surprizingly enough, has little to no knowledge of the movie series...so she's asked me to introduce the movies to her. Should I go 4-6 then 1-3, or should we go straight 1-6?



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#89 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.03
    Originally posted by SOK
    I left with a few questions after the movie...like why there are so many colours of lightsaber, what the difference are in thenm, or if it's just like the paint on a car, no major thing.


According to the fine folk at HowStuffWorks.com (Click Here (howstuffworks.com)), the color of a lightsaber has to do with the particular crystal that is used in its construction.


    One last thing: my best friend, who attended with me, surprizingly enough, has little to no knowledge of the movie series...so she's asked me to introduce the movies to her. Should I go 4-6 then 1-3, or should we go straight 1-6?


An interesting thing was pointed out to me the other day by a co-worker who watched the movies straight through I-VI with a friend who'd never seen any of them (they watched I and II at home, went to the theater for III, and then watched the other three at home again). Anyways, he said that the friend was rather confused until episode IV because there's really not as much explanation of what the force is or who the Jedi are/were until A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.

I thought this was interesting, because it really gives away that the "first three" episodes were made with the knowledge that most of the audience had seen the "second three" and would probably have not needed the explanation.

You might think about that when deciding which order to watch them in. The other two issues are that the special effects are better in the newer films, but that the acting is generally better in the older ones (mind, if you're watching Star Wars for the acting I personally think you're missing the point ).



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#90 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.05
4-6, like everyone else.

As for the lightsabers, I think it has something to do with rank. Padawans get one color (green?), knights get another (blue), masters can choose whichever they want (which explains Mace's purple one) and the Sith go with red. Anakin simply had kept his blue lightsaber for the Jedi slaughter.

Or maybe it's in series. One series comes in green, one in blue, etc...

EDIT: tarnish beat me to it, with a better answer to boot.

(edited by JST on 25.5.05 2013)



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#91 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.65
Best prequel by a mile.

I'd recommend, for someone who has already seen Episode III to maybe watch Episodes I and II (if they can handle it) to get familiar with the characters before the fall, then go with the Original Trilogy. But, I & II aren't necessary or anything once you've already seen III. Otherwise, picking up with IV is another good option.

Ewan McGregor was the standout actor for me, closely followed by Ian McDiarmid and Yoda. The transition into Alec Guiness' character was handled quite well. Obi-Wan, probably through the influence of his time around Anakin, has become much more human and dropping Alec-esque lines like "Hello there." really helped to sell the transition.

As melodramatic as it was, the end of the duel with Obi-Wan shouting down at Anakin was probably my favorite scene of the movie. Everything was building to that point and the emotion on Obi-Wan's face as he watched his friend essentially die in front of him, then leaving him for dead, was intense for a Star Wars movie.

The transition overall into the Original Trilogy was also handled well. Virtually seamless, except for some open ends, such as how Obi-Wan found out Vader survived (did he find out later through contacts or on the Death Star?).

Poetically, both Anakin and Padme died at the moment our new heroes, Luke and Leia, are born and when they come of age they make up for the mistakes of their parents' generation and restore freedom to the Galaxy. Luke eventually saves Anakin and the galaxy is washed away of evil. No need to go beyond Episode VI as the story ends there.

    Originally posted by The Vile1
    You can't be further from Darth Vader than Hayden Christensen in this movie.


That's the point. Darth Vader is a facade. Beneath it all is a pathetic man, in his older years a bureaucrat and in his younger a failed hero who wanted to do good but ended up evil, who is projecting a menacing appearance after he had lost much of his once-awesome powers.

Even after his transition, I bought him as a merciless Sith Lord who slaughtered people without mercy, but even in the later stages of the duel, I still saw him as a really messed up kid. The contrast between Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader is what makes the whole "There is still good in him" belief Luke holds shine through in the end.

The Cave scene on Dagobah takes on an entirely new meaning now. It really was Luke Skywalker under that helmet.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 25.5.05 1722)
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#92 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.68
    Originally posted by SOK
    In-freaking-credible. I ***LOVED*** the movie. I mean, it's not perfect, but certainly got my blood pumping.



My sentiments exactly. I don't know that it's a great movie, but I couldn't settle down for hours after seeing it. And for a movie with a foregone conclusion, it's impressive how easily they kept me hoping that Anakin would come out okay.

    Originally posted by SOK
    I left with a few questions after the movie...like why there are so many colours of lightsaber, what the difference are in thenm, or if it's just like the paint on a car, no major thing.


Judging from the Clone Wars cartoon, the color of the saber is determined by the color of the crystal used to power it, and blue and green are the more prevalent colors. I would assume purple crystals are so rare that only a powerful Jedi like Mace could find them. I believe the red crystals are supposed to be artificially manufactured, and the Sith use the Force during the process to sort of "temper" the blade with their hate.

I've never determined any clear pattern in saber color, so I would assume you just take the color you're given when you're a Padawan, and you can customize when you're learning to build your own.

    Originally posted by SOK
    Speaking of that...I would have loved to seen TWO lightsabre colours during the final fight between Obi Wan and Anakin.



That definitely would have been a better visual, but Episode IV established that both men used blue sabers, and Vader never gets a chance to get a red one.

    Originally posted by SOK
    One last thing: my best friend, who attended with me, surprizingly enough, has little to no knowledge of the movie series...so she's asked me to introduce the movies to her. Should I go 4-6 then 1-3, or should we go straight 1-6?


I think it'd be an interesting experience to watch Episodes II and III without knowing Anakin's fate, but Episode I makes no attempt to let viewers in on the ground floor. It's hard for me to picture a non-fan sitting through I without constantly asking who the hell these people are and why anyone should care. Episode IV succeeds in that regard because the story is all about a naive farmboy being introduced to and overwhelmed by the premise; Episode I is about a Jedi Master during just another day on the job acting like everything already makes sense.
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#93 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
And another point on the Obi-Wan training Vader thing: As far as his training went, Anakin was a great Jedi. If he had continued on his path, he would have been a great Jedi master. The Jedi Council's overall arrogance was its downfall, but Obi-Wan's training of Anakin was excellent.

What turned him to the dark side was Palpatine's manipulation and his belief that it was the only way to save Padme. Obi-Wan didn't fail in his training, despite what he said; Palpatine simply took advantage of the fact that Anakin was young enough to be manipulated and played him like a fiddle.

Which brings me to my next point. Palpatine, in this movie, might have been the most effective character in all six movies. I don't think Lucas is a great writer, but the way he set up Palpatine's manipulation of Anakin was BRILLIANT. And Ian McDiarmid rules.

Overall, I really dug this movie. I thought just about everything worked _ except I'm still not sure if Natalie Portman was really effective as being hopelessly in love, or if she was just bad in this movie. Ewan McGregor was six kinds of awesome and I thought Hayden Christensen was really good. Best moment of the movie for me: Yoda strolls into Palpatine's chamber and CLOCKS the guards with a flick of his wrist.
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#94 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.07
I heard this was how the color system works.

A Jedi that has trained exclusively in the Defender style of saber fighting uses a blue blade.

A Jedi that is a straight up warrior uses purple.

And a Master uses green.



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#95 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.77
As is stated in the many novels written about the Star Wars universe, a light saber's color is based on the crystal(s) used to construct it. Nothing else determines the color.
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#96 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.87
The crystals determine a light sabers color, but certain types of Jedi are supposed to use certain colors. Sith use red, I think guardians get green and consulars get yellow or such. Play KotOR and they explain this when you have to make your lightsaber.



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#97 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Yeah, I believe KotOR established a lot about lightsaber colors, although since I haven't played it yet I can't say that for certain.

But here's a Wikipedia link for y'all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi#Jedi_types

Though Mace Windu's a guardian (and would therefore normally get a blue lightsaber), ultimately the color of a person's lightsaber is up to them. Which is a good storyline reason why Mace Windu has a purple lightsaber. The actual reason is that Samuel L. Jackson wanted his saber to be distinct during the Battle of Geonosis in Episode II. And only SLJ is secure enough in his manhood to get away with carrying a purple-bladed lightsaber.




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#98 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.82
X-E's co-Worst Poster of all time! JKyle.com says:

    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    Virtually seamless, except for some open ends, such as how Obi-Wan found out Vader survived (did he find out later through contacts or on the Death Star?)
We already covered earlier Anakin is called Vader in the security tapes, so Obi knows his Sith name.

The fact that a Sith lord named Vader walked hand in hand with the emperor and terrorized the galaxy wasn't a big secret.

(edited by AngryJohnny on 26.5.05 0323)


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#99 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.48
    Originally posted by Ozzysun
    I heard this was how the color system works.

    A Jedi that has trained exclusively in the Defender style of saber fighting uses a blue blade.

    A Jedi that is a straight up warrior uses purple.

    And a Master uses green.
Wasn't Kenobi a master, though?



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#100 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
Awesome stuff, just a few thoughts on things that I don't think have been fully explored:

-Obi-Won didn't kill Anakin because that's the Jedi code. He could let Anakin die, but he couldn't kill him himself. A very big point of it is made earlier when Palpatine convinces Anakin to kill Dooku, and then when Mace is willing axe Palpatine in order to save the galaxy. Obi-Won was able to kill Grevious because Grevious presented a threat. Legless, armless Anakin presented no further threat to Obi-Won, so he couldn't kill him.

-Owen and Beru don't seem like the "adopting kind of people". They'll take the kid, sure, and raise him to make sure he doesn't end up like daddy, but he's stuck with the last name.

-I always thought "Sifo Dyas" was a mispronunciation of "Sidious," and that Palpatine had worked his way into the Jedi records so that he could secure the credentials to purchase an army.

-I don't think it's so far off that Chewie and Obi-Wan would have some sort of knowledge of eachother, at least a cursory knowledge of each other's existance, or at least Chewie would know of Ben Kenobi. It's very likely that Chewie would have heard of, if not seen holos of Obi-Wan when Yoda was on Kashyyk. If Han and Chewie are doing a lot of hanging out on Tatooine, he's sure to get wind of this crazy old man who thinks he's a Jedi and is running around calling himself Kenobi. Chewie could probably put two and two together from there, and put himself in contact with Ben in the Cantina. Especially if he's spoiling for a fight with the Empire, which it seems like he is.

-Hayden really pulled off the "Mark Hamil's Father" look.

-What was REALLY neat to me was how many times I just felt something "click," like to say, "Oh, that sets up THAT scene in A New Hope or Empire or Jedi".

-I don't think they ever really got why so many fans were disappointed with the midichlorians, but it was nice to see them doing something "right" with them for a change.

-And if Palpatine IS Vader's father...How messed up is THAT family tree?

-If there's one thing that I didn't like about the arch of this trilogy it's that Lucas left us all with a "wait, you'll see" approach, which is really awkward film making. I LOVE the explaination of how Anakin was "made" (and how it removes the "Christfigure" element from his character), but it doesn't discount that it was stupid in the first movie. I'm glad it got explained, and I'm happy with how it was explained, but that's a full six years of jerking our chain with something that when it happened seemed REALLY dumb.

-I really have to spend a few seconds professing my undying love for the Palpatine story arch. I just loooooove the way that you could see the wheels turning, and things clicking into place behind the scenes, and the slow burn that Lucas wrote was right on the money the whole way, right up to and including Palpatine's belief in Jedi that he simply cannot fail, and then finally falling to his own ignorance.

-Loved seeing "guy who was cast obviously because he resembles Peter Cushing". Grand Moff Tarkin, we hardly knew ye.

-Though, wasn't it part of the lore that Tarkin was keeping the Death Star a secret from Palpatine so that he could use it against him and take the reigns of the Empire at a later date, and that Palpatine didn't find out about it until much later in the construction (when he sent Vader to keep Tarkin in check)? I thought I'd read that in the first Star Wars novelization.

Kudos to everybody involved for finishing off Star Wars right.

EDIT:

As a side note, I couldn't have been the only one waiting for Obi-Wan to beg Anakin to throw the ring of power into the lava, could I? Maybe I am. The first time I saw it, I started cracking up right in the middle of their duel.

(edited by Excalibur05 on 27.5.05 0154)


Tonight I wanna ruin my life,
I wanna throw it all away,
In a spectacular way
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Went to the movies last night to see Pelham 123, but it didn't start for an hour so we decided to see this instead. The movie is actually much better than the previews would lead you to believe.
- StaggerLee, The Proposal (2009)
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