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The W - Movies & TV - Episode III thoughts [SPOILERS] (Page 3)
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Jim Smith
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Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.67
    Originally posted by bradbice
      Originally posted by Jim Smith
      It's been a while since I've seen Return of the Jedi, but as I remember the exchange Luke asks about Leia's mother (because he wants to know more about his mother), and Leia tells him she died when Leia was very young. But Leia still thinks her birth mother is Bail Organa's wife; Luke hasn't revealed her true heritage yet. So Luke is assuming Leia was raised by Padme, and Leia doesn't know to tell him he's wrong.

    But in ROTJ, Luke asks Leia about "your mother, your REAL mother". And she doesn't question that so it's assumed that she knows she was adopted.

    But, a lot of things are assumed when it comes to Star Wars.


As an alternative theory, my brother suggests Leia is one of those people who has vague memories from birth--which I've heard of in real life and would be even more plausible in someone born with the Force. Then again, that leaves us to wonder why Luke wouldn't have the same ability to a greater degree, though.

Assuming Leia knows she's adopted, shouldn't Leia be more surprised when Luke reveals he knows that? I suppose it could be common knowledge, but if the Organas didn't want Leia's parentage to be revealed, the safest bet would have been to claim Leia as their biological child.

The idea that Bail Organa was married twice in Leia's lifetime is probably the cleanest explanation. Either way, I'll be shocked if Lucas doesn't cut that bit out of the next re-release of Jedi.
Daddyblack
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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.13
Vader sounded like the "Vader" from the Chappelle show Jedi Sex Scandal Episode.
ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Saw the movie this afternoon and loved it! The only parts that were painful for me to watch (as in "Gaah, move along," not "Gaah, my eyes!") were the Anakin/Padme love scenes. Other than that, two thumbs up from me. I know my smark membership card's gonna be revoked for this, but I think Episode III is actually the best of the Star Wars films. For that matter, I think Episode II is better than a lot of people give it credit for-- I'd put it third overall behind Revenge of the Sith and The Empire Strikes Back.

To quickly answer someone's question about Yoda's reasoning for going to Dagobah. In addition to that dark tree, which housed tremendous evil energy and thus apparently shrouded Yoda from Palpatine's senses, the novelization of The Empire Strikes Back states that Dagobah isn't on any star chart-- which was one of the reasons R2 thought Luke had lost his mind when he announced their destination. I'm guessing Yoda did the same thing with Dagobah as Dooku apparently did with Kamino-- he erased Dagobah from the Jedi Archive's data banks, knowing all along that was where he was going.

The lightsaber sequences were out of this world. Obi-Wan/Anakin was #1 in my book, just as I expected it would be. After that, in this order I'd go with Yoda/Sidious, Windu/Sidious, Obi-Wan/Grievous and (the only disappointing one) Anakin/Dooku. Although Anakin/Dooku was very important from a storyline standpoint, don't misunderstand me. I just thought it was over far too quickly, that's all. Did I miss any of the major 'saber fights?

I'd like to know who that kid was who, while Order 66 was in full effect, suddenly broke out his lightsaber and killed like seven or eight Clone Troopers in front of Senator Organa before being gunned down. Brave lad.

I loved when Obi-Wan regained consciousness after several minutes... in that time, Dooku had been killed, Palpatine had been saved and the gravity was doing all sorts of funky things during the atmospheric re-entry. "Did I miss something?" HA!

Overall, I think the Obi-Wan/Anakin dynamic was much improved in Revenge of the Sith. Obi-Wan seemed far too bossy, too critical of Anakin in Episode II-- he didn't have nearly enough patience and understanding towards Anakin. In Episode III he related to him more as an equal, or at least like a younger brother. He was still a mentor, but the good-intentioned scolding in the previous movie was replaced by more patience. But you could tell Obi-Wan was still disappointed by Anakin in some ways.

Quickly on the Jar-Jar issue before I move on-- sure, I, too, would have liked to see Jar-Jar die a stabbity death. But I was relieved in any event that Jar-Jar's role in Episode III was extremely minimal-- in fact, if I recall correctly, he didn't speak a single word. I can live with him as a background character, just don't thrust him in my face for 70 minutes like they did in Episode I.

Sasee Tinn and Agen Kolar were made quick work of by Sidious, weren't they? Kit Fisto, at least, managed to get some offensive moves against him before he, too, met his fate. Makes you wonder... is Mace that good, or are Tinn, Kolar and Fisto simply that bad?

The reason Palpatine's face became so hideously distorted is because when he shot his lightning at Mace (after a brief period in which Mace was hit with some of it), the vast majority of that lightning was repelled back onto Palpatine's face. If you watch, his face becomes more and more distorted as the lightning is reflected onto him. Quite disgusting, actually.

I think he actually was beaten, and Mace would have killed him if Anakin hadn't interfered. And I agree with Mace-- he was too dangerous to be kept alive. No chance that Palpatine would have gotten a fair trial. Jedi code be damned. He had to die. Anakin could have chosen to allow Mace to kill Palpatine, but erred in aligning himself with Palpatine.

The Emperor's manipulations throughout the prequel trilogy have been brilliant-- both his manipulation to gain power over the Republic, and his manipulation to gain power over Anakin, which have a lot in common in many ways. Surely if Anakin had been born on a Republic world, he would have been taken into the Order at a very young age, and his life would have turned out a lot differently. He would have had no mother that he was aware of, and therefore wouldn't have gone all Steiner on the Tuskens who killed her. But this thing about Darth Plagueis' ability to create life with the midicholorians raises the question, as others have brought up, about how Anakin was conceived. I think one of the Sith Lords used this power to bring Anakin into being, and because he was born in the sticks of Tattooine, his power went unrecognized for many years.

In the meantime, Sidious created the Naboo crisis, manipulating the Trade Federation into blocking that world even though, in reality, Palpatine was representing that world in the Senate. In fact, that was exactly why he chose Naboo-- because the crisis would engender sympathy for Naboo which would help to win Palpatine the Supreme Chancellor seat once he had Padme call for the vote of no-confidence in Valorum.

So when he said to Padme, "I think our crisis will generate a good percentage of sympathy votes" (paraphrased) he wasn't just hoping that would happen-- he was counting on it.

But he needed another crisis in order to consolidate his power base-- so he had his new apprentice, Darth Tyranus (a.k.a. Count Dooku) call in an order for the clone troopers and blame Syfo-Dias (or however that worked-- what's important is that Palpatine was ultimately responsible for the clonet troopers coming into play). Only Palpatine and Dooku knew that the Clone War between the Republic and the Separatists was ultimately being staged by the two Sith Lords for the purpose of gaining further powers for Palpatine. And though Dooku actually told Obi-Wan in Episode II that "the Republic is being controlled by a Sith Lord named Darth Sidious", he didn't tell him Sidious' alter-ego or mention the fact that he, himself, was also a Sith Lord. And by the time the Jedi came to the realization that Sidious and Palpatine were the same person, he had already gained far too much power. (Thanks a lot, Jar Jar.)

Between Episode I and Episode II, Palpatine clearly took Anakin into his confidence and treated him like a son. It made him far more vulnerable to Palpatine's deception in Episode III, when he was able to convince Anakin that the Jedi were plotting to take over the Republic. Add that to Palpatine talking about Plagueis and his alleged ability to stop people from dying (which he knew would intrigue Anakin because if he'd had the power earlier, he might have been able to save his mother-- and with the power, he might be able to save Padme)-- and Palpatine had stacked the deck so much in his favor that it made a lot of sense, from a character perspective, when Anakin finally fell to the Dark Side.

And when Anakin starts slaying Jedi left and right, he's doing it for the same reason the Jedi are going after the Sith-- because he loves the Republic, and believes the Jedi want to overthrow everything he believes in. But he doesn't realize just how evil Palpatine truly is, because he's been blinded by all of this deception.

So I think the writing, from that standpoint, was fantastic-- very logical, slow, methodical. When Anakin fell to the Dark Side, it was believable, you know? You don't agree with his decision, obviously, but you understand the thought process behind his making that decision.

I think the following Obi-Wan/Anakin fight was tremendous, and very emotional for both men. Obi-Wan believes Anakin has betrayed him, Anakin believes Obi-Wan has betrayed him, and the time for diplomacy is over-- we got bidness we need to conduct, and only one of us is coming out alive. But dammit, Obi-Wan, you should have killed Anakin when you had the chance. It wasn't necessary to allow him to suffer like that, with his skin melting away and all that (definitely the most gruesome scene in any Star Wars film, without question)-- he was in terrible agony, and he should've done the right thing and finished the job. It would have been a humanitarian move on his part, and it would've left Palpatine once more without an apprentice. If he's still alive, the job isn't done yet.

But obviously, if he'd killed Anakin, there wouldn't have been an original trilogy, and I'd be spending this time talking about, I don't know, some other movie.

In any event, I loved the movie, I'm definitely gonna see it again at some point, gonna buy the novelization, gonna buy the DVD, and at some point I'll set aside 12 hours and watch Episodes I-VI back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back.

Now, everyone go watch Star Wars Revelations like I told ya earlier, and bridge the gap (albeit unofficially) between III and IV!

(edited by ekedolphin on 22.5.05 2219)

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Since: 1.8.02
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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    I'd like to know who that kid was who, while Order 66 was in full effect, suddenly broke out his lightsaber and killed like seven or eight Clone Troopers in front of Senator Organa before being gunned down. Brave lad.


That was Zett Jukassa, who was played by Jett Lucas, George's son.



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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.07
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    Saw the movie this afternoon and loved it! [...] Now, everyone go watch Star Wars Revelations like I told ya earlier, and bridge the gap (albeit unofficially) between III and IV!

    (edited by ekedolphin on 22.5.05 2219)


Bravo very well written.

A few perceptions after seeing it a 2nd time.
The first viewing was nothing but Ooh and Awe and not alot of analyzing. My second viewing however I came away with some better understandings.

1. Mark Hamill was just as clunky as Hayden Christian was. I think both of them though came into their own by the end of their respectful trilogys. Hayden had the whole I'm wicked evil and gonna whip your ass thing down. Yes he was whiney, but he was whiney in a I'm getting freaken screwed by the Jedi Order kinda way.

2. I was very impressed with the way it wrapped up all the small details, Obi Wan retrieving Anakins lightsaber as he walked away so it would later be handed down to Luke was well done. Threepio being mind wiped. The way that Obi Wan looked down at Luke as he handed him to Beru, like, Kid someday your gonna save the galaxy.

3. Obi wan was trained by Yoda, his training in how to talk to the dead IE Qui Gon. So when Obi Wan told Luke that he was sending him to someone that trained him Yoda was correct.

4. Anakin did bring balance to the Force, 2 evil characters in the end and 2 good ones....Balance.

This movie was fantastic, I would say it is a runner up for the best out of the 6.



(edited by JustinShapiro on 23.5.05 0210)


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J. Kyle
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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.46
X-E's co-Worst Poster of all time! JKyle.com says:

A) Hayden wasn't lying. He really was holding back. The look on his face before jumping up to be dismembered was nineteen brands of psychotic.

B) Seeing as how so much of the Ep II thread was dedicated to Droid memory talk (which turned out to be very VALID thank you) it was nice to have a payoff.

Almost everything was paid off, though I could live without hearing about Midochlorians again.

The only question mark left was why Luke said Dagobah was familiar and my friend presented me with the fact that he was probably talking about sensing Yoda's presence since Yoda was there for his birth.

C) I really enjoyed what little Smits had to do. He came off with an extremely cool vibe that hinted at Solo AND Lando. His swagger and his reading of the "prevent any Jedi from walking into this CATASTROPHE!" line were just so cool I can't help but feel he could've played a role similar to Han's...

and the non-Jedi, sarcastic rogue, everyman is the only dynamic I truly think these films were missing.

So I'm wondering, for those of you who read the early drafts of the Ep II script, what was he supposed to do that got cut from the movie?

D) The scar came from Sith chick? She survived the fall? Where do we find this out?

I assumed it was from an exploding Droid that caught him off guard. It just appears between shots in Clone Wars 21. Of course it also had the tendency to vanish in some shots of 25...



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Since: 12.2.02
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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.35
Great post, eke.

I saw it on Friday afternoon. Despite the clunky dialogue, I thought this was an excellent movie storywise, really tying up the whole series well. The theater applauded when the beginning music hit, and everyone seemed to have a positive reaction to the movie afterwards.

Funniest moment - when Yoda walked into the Emperor's office.

From the time that the war ended to the end of the movie was just freaking crazy insane - watching the fruition of Sidious' plan for power over the Republic and Anakin over that hour. Wow. The end of Anakin/Obi-wan was so emotional, and McGregor did a great job with his delivery at the end. The question I wonder - what was Obi-Wan's motivation in leaving Anakin alive there? If he couldn't kill him, why leave him to suffer like that?

Darth Vader - the $6M dollar Jedi.

The fact that Anakin/Vader caused Padme's death was some vicious karma. I can now see that Vader, now knowing what has transpired and how he was duped would just be completely pissed and ruthless. He knows what he did and that he cast his lot with the Emperor, and now probably feels he has no choice and cannot undo his past. I think this sets up verrry nicely for his redemption in Return of the Jedi.

The yucky: The opening battle was so super busy it was hard to pick a spot to focus on. Definitely a scene for slow-mo on DVD, but hard to follow in the theater. The scene with the multiple troopers sans helmets - TOTALLY agree that looked clunky - the Sega comparison was valid. I also wholly agree with previous reactions to Natalie Portman - for whatever reason, she was horrible at a couple of points in the movie. Hayden was much better in this film and did the fearful/psychotic vibe really well.

Really good movie, overall well done, and I really look forward to seeing it again in about 2 weeks.



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Since: 16.10.02
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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.72
    Originally posted by AngryJohnny


    and the non-Jedi, sarcastic rogue, everyman is the only dynamic I truly think these films were missing.




That's been a big issue for me with these new movies. There is no warmth and humor. There are no "Laugh it up Fuzzball" and "I'd rather kiss a Wookie" "I can arrange that". I miss that.
Nobody smiles, laughs, or lets out a whoop of joy during battles.
Jar Jar was supposed to be comic relief, but was just plain annoying.
For the record, I have no problem with the Ewoks, then or now.
I liked seeing primitive beings battle the heavily armored, tech heavy Empire.

The coolest part of this movie was seeing Luke and Leia born at the same moment Darth Vader is "born".
They should have just released this movie and skipped the first two.

Zeruel
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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
Biggest pop in my audience was when the Droid had R2 "Don't move!" and R2 zaps him and then the Droid kick R2.

There were a few moments like that, but dwaters is right, not enough great banter.




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Since: 16.10.02
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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.72
My theater's biggest pop was for Johnny Storm during the "Fantastic Four" trailer.

Nurse: "Oooh, you're hot!"
Storm: "Thanks, so are you!"

It got big laughs.

Between Jessica Alba in the FF suit, Angelina Jolie looking absolutely SMOKIN' in the "Mr. & Mrs. Smith" trailer, and of course the lovely Natalie Portman, it was a good night for the guys in the theater.

Though, I actually said out loud, "Is she wearing a PLATE on her head?"
If you think about it, the casting has been good. There is some resemblence between Hayden/Hamill, McGregor/Guinness, and Fisher/Portman. (as far as Obi-Wan and kids resembling their parents)

(edited by dwaters on 23.5.05 1001)
StaggerLee
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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.73
For all the hate thrown at Jar Jar, remember, he was the one who cast the deciding vote to go to war in Episode II. . Without his "input" the story wouldnt go where it went.

I had actually made the comparison between Christensen and Hamil before, and got laughed at. Both are mediocre actors, but handed the roles of a life time, and eventually kicked some ass with it. (although Hamil did fare better than his Christiansen.)

(edited by StaggerLee on 23.5.05 1137)
SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.95
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    For all the hate thrown at Jar Jar, remember, he was the one who cast the deciding vote to go to war in Episode II. . Without his "input" the story wouldn't go where it went.

Then again, Palpatine wouldn't have even been Chancellor if Padme hadn't moved for the vote of no confidence in Vallorum. See? It's all HER fault!

As for Revenge of the Sith itself, it was everything I was hoping it would be. And it definitely improves with a second viewing. When I saw it Wednesday night, my only criticism was Natalie Portman's awful performance. After the second time, I realized she really wasn't that bad. She was playing a very specific character: a woman DEEPLY in love. She did that pretty well. I still wish Lucas had cut the awkward scene between Anakin and Padme on the balcony. ("You're so beautiful." "Only because I'm so in love.") Its only important line, "So you're blinded by love?" could have been moved elsewhere. I lament the fact that this scene remained in the film, while Yoda arriving on Dagobah was cut.

I was mildly disappointed by the small Darth Vader scene, but only because nothing could have lived up to the anticipation of seeing Vader suited up and using JEJ's voice again. That was the moment Anakin finally died. And while it was a little weird, to hear "the voice" attempting that kind of emotion, it ended up working for me.

And with a hearty apology to the fanboy purist in me, I now can firmly say that Ewan McGregor is the one and only Obi-Wan Kenobi. He just ran away with every single scene he was in.

(edited by SchippeWreck on 23.5.05 1021)


StaggerLee
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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.73
Agree with the Ewen McGregor sentiments. The scene where he yells about "you were the chosen one" in the previews leads you to believe he is whining at Anakin for going to the Dark Side, then when you see it, you realise its because of his disappointment that the one who was supposed to be the leader of the future had turned, and he was going to have to destroy (but not kill) him. It takes on a whole new meaning when seen in context. He was simply brilliant in this movie.
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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    Interesting that we don't get our explanation of how Leia knew her birth mother better than Luke.


from the ROTJ scrip:

LUKE
Leia... do you remember your mother? Your real mother?

LEIA
Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.

LUKE
What do you remember?

LEIA
Just...images, really. Feelings.

LUKE
Tell me.

LEIA
(a little surprised at his insistence)
She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad.
(looks up)
Why are you asking me all this?

He looks away.

LUKE
I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.




I asked the same question to my friend after seeing the movie but here's an explanation. Leia should be just as powerful with the Force as Luke(she's just untrained), so it makes sense since Leia describes her memories as just feelings that they are just vision from the Force. Yoda mentions that the Force can bring on visions of the past, present and future.

from ESB:
YODA
Concentrate... feel the Force
flow. Yes. Good. Calm, yes.
Through the Force, things you
will see. Other places. The
future... the past. Old friends



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#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
    Originally posted by Zeruel
    Biggest pop in my audience was when the Droid had R2 "Don't move!" and R2 zaps him and then the Droid kick R2.

    There were a few moments like that, but dwaters is right, not enough great banter.


The biggest pop of my night was when Yoda walked into Palpatine's chambers and NUKED the two red guards with the Force. Ouch.
I loved this movie. I blew away my expectations and I felt everything was right with it. Lucas has redeemed the whole saga.



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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.11
How about this? Maybe they actually had a friggin photograph of what she looked like on Alderan and the Organa's showed it to Leia at some point?




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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.16

I, too, must spread the Ewan love. I watched it again yesterday and he was indeed brilliant. After watching Episode IV, I thought that he could have segued nicely into Sir Alec Guinness.

I thought for a second there that Liam Neeson would be making a cameo when Yoda mentioned to Obi-Wan about communicating with him.

And someone told me that early in the movie when the fireships are putting out the flames on the ship that Anakin, Obi-Wan, Palpetine & R2 are on, you can see the Millenium Falcon landing. Anyone else catch it?



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#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
Regarding the "NOOOOOOOOOOO!"

I think it was important for "Vader" (read: Annikan in the scary costume) to show some emotion because, as is made evident when he saves Luke from Palpatine in ROTJ, Vader is still capable of emotion and a sense of right and wrong.

If anything, i don't think any of the movies do a good enough job portraying the guilt Vader carries that ultimately results in him leaving the Dark Side to save his son.
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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.95
    Originally posted by Mayhem
    And someone told me that early in the movie when the fireships are putting out the flames on the ship that Anakin, Obi-Wan, Palpetine & R2 are on, you can see the Millenium Falcon landing. Anyone else catch it?

It's actually just a little bit later, when the shuttle is dropping them off to meet Mace and the Senators. In the establishing shot of the landing platform, the Falcon pulls in and lands in the lower right area of the screen. It's tough to spot because it's small, but the engines are lit, so that makes things a little easier.



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#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.12
The money shot of the film was the mask being put on Anakin. The whole slow build and then dead silence.......(inhale)........(exhale) was worth the whole price of admission. The first two movies could have been combined into one with Anakin being a teenage podracer.
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I never could get into it, great animation and everything. I guess I'm too much of a fan of the original BG Crisis.
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